What I believe.....

[powessy]

This is my belief:

As I said, life for me has no 'grand' purpose and even if there is one, there is no way of knowing it.

Have you ever looked inward for these answers of purpose, I am an atheist but I believe the truth has been covered up. What if what you see, is nothing more then a slide of hands, one that you are so caught up in that the truth will always allude you.

Nature has synthesised me (and others) by a process which we cannot grasp. There is no mystery or divine plan, no miracle...it is just what it is. What is the point in knowing it? The body is a mixture of matter and cells working in synchrony with rest of the nature. Like a machine..brain controls the physical actions. It senses and reacts.

My physical body needs food, shelter and clothing for survival and it will aim towards achieving this. The nature has this inbuilt mechanism (survival of fittest). So far it's the same for any animal species including humans (so, I am not more worthy than animal!)

Man like everything else has evolved to this level of being, we are a product of nature, but synthesized I question the validity of this theory. Man along with 99.9% of life on earth share the same single strand of DNA, the only thing that separates you from everything else is a simple series of on off switches on this strand. The notion that we abide by the survival of the fittest rule is a joke right. Any Joe blow man can wield a gun, a highly intelligent weakling can create a nuclear bomb definitely not the fittest. All living vessels require food, shelter and well clothing is a choice definitely not needed for survival(maybe to protect you from embarrassment but man has created this insecurity).

In humans, however, the brain has developed into a thinking machine with emotions and ego. Again, It aids in survival. That is why humans have dominated over other animals.

Emotions can be argued as our greatest fallacy this is why we have created laws and rules if every angry person killed the person whom made them angry there would be very few people remaining. what about Love, what if every man loved the other mans wife, the out come would be the same as anger, who wants to live in constant fear or be happy all the time. The ego is only balanced with the ID and Super ego, if everyone only listened to their ego we would never have another problem with emotion or irrational thinking. If survival was our only basic desire then the ego is standing in our way.

Well, the problem is this thinking brain with its preconditioning and emotions has fallen into a trap. It wants and looks for permanence and stability in everything and avoids pain. It wants everlasting happiness and love, without understanding that all permanence is pain! Imagine being in the bed 24 hrs, mind will perceive it as pain. So, you move and walk and run, again body perceives this as pain, so you rest.

If I have to live then the choices are not to do anything, but that's again a pain.

So you may say, what's the point in living then if there is no purpose? I say the alternative i.e dying is more stressful. Dying is perceived as pain, so body will reject it. So one has no choice really. He has to live.

Pain can also be used to form understanding, through pain we learn compassion and understanding the yin and yang. Pain helps me stay aligned with life it is a reminder that things have consequences, without pain we would stop learning and stop being for it is pain that pushes man to evolve. Our pre-conditioning is the set of rules that we have choose to live by if you don't agree with these rules then it is your fault for the pain you are in. WE have many choices but they are limited by your interpretation or lack of knowledge of the game. Are you sure death is painful or stressful or is it the fear of not knowing, perhaps the purpose will fall in your lap tomorrow.

I can watch tv, work to earn, spend time with friends, travel, cook and eat good food ...there is no purpose, but there is no other better option. You see my point. There is no choice. Mind has to be kept and will be occupied with thought. Now, this could be anything..religion, politics, anger, depression. It is just a thought no real significance but no other alternative.

You have mentioned many choices all of which might lead you to some purpose, you can probably mark many of these off the list but still you have choices. There are 7+ billion people on the earth and many have found some purpose for life, for some of us the answer is simple and obvious and for others the answer will never come but the search is the most exciting I think. The internet is full of information with thousands of forums all discussing this same thing if the answer was easy would there be so many seeking. I like to read as much as possible about all various religions, cults, pagans, spiritual enlightenment, Buddhism, Hinduism, Christianity and any other form of religion or practice that will lead me to that purpose. I hope someday to find the answers to my questions even if they are answered after death and if not then at least I gave it my all.

Then through a natural mechanism the body perishes. The molecules and cells disintegrate into nature. There is no mind/thought to know what happens next. All beliefs end..just as falling into sleep and not waking up again.

The body stays here this is correct, but how can you be so certain about the soul have you tried to awaken it. How about kundalini or other spiritual workings have you ventured down those paths before. There are also Astral dreams, Out of body experiences, near death experiences, soul guides all of which have a vast amount of knowledge being mounted on the internet. There is witch craft both white magic and black, Satanism, luciferianism, fairies, dragons and many others, have you read on all these or was it less painful to just lie down and submit to no purpose.

I don't need any complex religion or theological or philosophical concept to live.
As I have said earlier, one could choose to have other beliefs and 'purpose'...the end result is the same.

This is Positive Pessimism for me.

This sounds allot like b.s. to me, so has something happened recently perhaps an awakening of sorts to bring you here? Part of you sounds as if you are asking what to believe and the other part sounds convinced in your convictions. Most of the things you have said are weak and not thought out this tells me you have stuck to the no purpose and pain thing pretty well. Just so you know there is an awakening happening right now thousands are having spontaneous awakenings all over the last four or five months, if you are one of these people all you need to do is be yourself and seek your inner soul for answers. If you are just randomly seeking information on some interfaith forum to tell us that there is no purpose and everything is pain then thinks for your contribution.

 

[Nothingtoknow]

So I'm reading you as having questions once, came up with a bunch of answers and have now constructed a world view. This doesn't sound very different from any other world view? You ease your pain by saying to yourself that there is no purpose, other ease theirs by saying there is...what are you doing on this site!?

We'll I may have a purpose there! I am sharing my belief and challenging others in their belief. If I will find a suitable answer to change my belief system will accept it. Very unlikely though, as I have gone through most of the other belief systems, but you never know!

 

[Nothingtoknow]

Yes I returned back to the state I was previously in. After that happened I started going through all kinds of books to include the bible. I have had other mystical experiences as well after that event but its too much to go into. I did have some bad experiences as well but I don't like to talk about them because they are traumatic. The one question I ask myself is since I chose to stay and would have been in paradise had I not chosen to stay what point was it for me to go through all the bad stuff. Guess I will have to ask god that one day. After that experience I became a vegan,, I didn't drink any alcohol and I tried my best not to do anything wrong. The more I did that the worse things got. Everything happens for a reason and god knows us sometimes I think better than we know ourselves. He knew I would choose to stay. Other things have happened since then really amazing things that make me think it was worth staying. I have grown much since then. I am just now reaching maturity. I was like a babe in the woods back then. After all of this I think the most important thing is acts of kindness not only towards others but to ourselves as well. We can be really hard and unforgiving of ourselves. Have you ever had any life changing experiences?

Depends on what you call 'life changing experiences' - near death (drowning in a river, road crash), death of a loving one.

I have been religious and made to believe in god since I was born. I have been attracted towards achieving enlightenment and spent lot of time in this adventure. In fact, I was believing and experiencing all that you have mentioned above. Kindness and love everything..all that which makes one 'feel good'

Then, I stumbled upon my current belief system. Rather, believing in something new, it was more of denouncing what I knew. I rejected everything what anyone said. This is what is called the natural state. That brought a big change, more powerful than what you have been talking above. Free from all that jargon which the religious preachers have talked. I started looking you answers and the questions disappeared. There was no miracle, just being in the natural state.

Life is more fulfilling since I have been in this state for 10 years. I don't think one can consciously come into this state, rather you just stumble into it. I call this a life changing experience.

 

[A Cup Of Tea]

In fact, I was believing and experiencing all that you have mentioned above.

I think this is an assumption, no one can know what someone else is experiencing.

I rejected everything what anyone said.

And this doesn't feel true based on your latest posts where I think you have a clear system of how the world works, and how the mind works. (Unless you believe that you have discovered all these insights on your own) If you agree with what I'm saying to some extent, wouldn't it be interesting to know why you choose to reject what you reject?

 

[Nothingtoknow]

I think this is an assumption, no one can know what someone else is experiencing.



And this doesn't feel true based on your latest posts where I think you have a clear system of how the world works, and how the mind works. (Unless you believe that you have discovered all these insights on your own) If you agree with what I'm saying to some extent, wouldn't it be interesting to know why you choose to reject what you reject?

You are right, assumption. There is no other alternative unless the other can explain his experience in a way I can capture. And that does not happen because it's in the non-physical domain. So one could assume whatever he wants!

Let me correct if I have given a wrong impression. I don't believe there are insights on my own and neither could anyone claim. Again you may recall what I said in earlier posts, all insights and beliefs come from a conditioned mind/thought mechanism. Can you think of something which you have never seen, felt or heard before.

Imagine a child which has not yet developed it's thinking process. And then it is exposed to various belief system, it can only get insights in a different form but still within the same resources, if I may use that word.

That's why I say there is nothing to know.

Why I choose to reject what I reject? - I think I have understood the futility in it.
You are only promised of something grand is there on the other side of reality, you believe it, imagine it and then search for it. Even those who claim to have found something are unable to explain what they have really found but don't want to admit if they have found nothing. They fool themselves and others.
You don't need an expert to tell you about love and happiness and a path to achieve this in everlasting form.

 

[A Cup Of Tea]

You don't understand me, there is too high a wall between us, so I will step back for now. We might share something later.

 

[Thomas]

I don't believe there are insights on my own and neither could anyone claim. Again you may recall what I said in earlier posts, all insights and beliefs come from a conditioned mind/thought mechanism.

Is that not itself the result of a conditioned mind/thought mechanism?

I would argue that because you have sought for but not experienced 'it', that does not preclude 'it' as being something beyond your grasp or cognisance, nor does it preclude anyone else from knowing 'it'.

 

[Nothingtoknow]

Is that not itself the result of a conditioned mind/thought mechanism?

I would argue that because you have sought for but not experienced 'it', that does not preclude 'it' as being something beyond your grasp or cognisance, nor does it preclude anyone else from knowing 'it'.

If I cannot experience 'It' and those who have experienced it cannot express and communicate 'It' in the way I can understand...I don't know what you are talking about.

I believe we can only experience and communicate within the limits of our acquired knowledge ( the only tool we have)

Can you elaborate on the 'it' please, the way you have experienced.

 

[Thomas]

If I cannot experience 'It' and those who have experienced it cannot express and communicate 'It' in the way I can understand...I don't know what you are talking about.

True. But that's a communication problem.

I believe we can only experience and communicate within the limits of our acquired knowledge ( the only tool we have)

Well that depends on how you define 'knowledge', or rather how you determine how we know.

I see 'infused' knowledge as acquired knowledge, that is I include 'wisdom' and 'insight' and 'belief' under the banner of knowledge, not just empirical data.

Can you elaborate on the 'it' please, the way you have experienced.

Well broadly the range of 'religious experience', from 'mystical' excesses to the simple faith of the believer.

But I could have said 'love'. If someone has never loved, or if two people hold different ideas regarding what love is, then the same impasse will occur.

I recognise that in the history of religion there arises the issue of an institutional organisation co-existing alongside secular institutions to such a degree that it's difficult to differentiate, and religious institutions have been guilty of supporting the 'status quo' by methods that go against their proclaimed principles.

But that is a human failing, a failure to live up to the message, it's not a failure of the message. There's nothing in the Christian Creed, nor the Catechism, not the dogmas nor the doctrines that endorses coercion or the use of force by any means, regardless of the end in view.

By the same token, both 'democracy' and 'communism' are good ideas, but I don't think any society has actually ever managed to live up to the values proclaimed by either party.

"'Peace upon earth!' was said. We sing it,
And pay a million priests to bring it.
After two thousand years of mass
We've got as far as poison-gas."
Christmas, 1924 by Thomas Hardy.

And he has a point ... but the Church did not develop poison gas.

In Hardy's A Christmas Ghost Story (1899) a character notes that the 'cause for which [Christ] died' seemed to have been ruled as 'inept, and set aside'.

Even at the humanist level – religion aside – the point stands.

+++

But I see hope for change. Cardinal-elect Vincent Nichols has criticised the government here in the UK for abandoning the needs of the old and demonising the 'working class'. And then a letter signed by two dozen Anglican Bishops and other church leaders also chimed in.

St Luke would be proud! Some people are beginning to realise that 'social justice' applies to the periphery of society, those on the edge, as well as, and more immediately, than those who sit quite comfortably in the centre.

There has been a process to 'demonise' the 'working class' (if such an entity actually exists, which I doubt, other than in the mind) that's been going on since the 80s, with the mythology of the CHAV – Council House (that is government social housing programme) And Violent ... that is specifically aimed at those on 'social benefits' payment who, we're told, cost the country its wealth. The figures indicate their drain on the public purse doesn't even reach double figures in percentage terms when compared to the money syphoned out of the system by corporates and the rich. And don't start me on our financial institutions ...

Suffice to say the current Chancellor of the Exchequer, who holds one of the four great Offices of State in the UK (he holds the Treasury purse), is considered an 'oik' (an 'uncouth' or 'obnoxious person') by the governing Cabinet because he didn't go to Eton!

(Why am I wittering on about politics?)

 

[Namaste Jesus]

What I believe....

I believe we are all connected....all one....and that is what Jesus grew to understand...I and the father are one...who is my family....we are all brothers and sisters....u n eye r 1.....

We often don't see how our actions to others hurt and benefit ourcellves...

I believe much the same as you. I think we are all interconnected and that our various religious beliefs ultamately lead us to the same God. I think it's pointless to argue over which method of worship is best or correct. This only serves to alienate others and further distance ourselves from God. I believe that all faith based scripture has merrit, be it Christian, Hindu, Muslim, Judaism or any of the like. Each have a piece of the puzzle within their teachings. Respect the planet and each other.

 

[donnann]

I believe much the same as you. I think we are all interconnected and that our various religious beliefs ultamately lead us to the same God. I think it's pointless to argue over which method of worship is best or correct. This only serves to alienate others and further distance ourselves from God. I believe that all faith based scripture has merrit, be it Christian, Hindu, Muslim, Judaism or any of the like. Each have a piece of the puzzle within their teachings. Respect the planet and each other.

I agree with you completely

 

[campus]

I think free will is too complicated for a yes or no answer. there is so much in the question that needs to be sorted out before anyone can understand the answer.

I stand by my previous answer as to why such a miracle wouldn't be that impressive today.

 

[Thomas]

Hi Nothingtoknow –
I thought I'd posted in response to this, but apparently not.

If I cannot experience 'It' and those who have experienced it cannot express and communicate 'It' in the way I can understand...I don't know what you are talking about.

But that does not mean we're obliged to refute it. There is the acceptance of the fact that we don't know everything.

Take 'love' or 'toothache' — impossible to explain to someone who's never experienced it, but not incomprehensible.

I believe we can only experience and communicate within the limits of our acquired knowledge (the only tool we have)

The key point here is 'we', not 'I'.

I would point out the sacra doctrina of the world, and the evidence of the great Traditions, communicates an order of knowledge and experience that is possible.

On the other hand, we all accept as given stuff we really don't understand. Most people are quite happy to use domestic appliances, but how many can explain what electricity is or how it works?

Can you elaborate on the 'it' please, the way you have experienced.

Well in this instance, by 'it' I mean the range of religious experience. It's universal; it was there before science, and will remain after science has exhausted itself (according to the New Scientist).

The non-religious secularism as it is emerging in the West, it seems to me, is the product of a dependence upon technology to solve all the questions. Any question that cannot be solved on a calculator or therefore invalid. It's a self-imposed limitation on what it means to be human.

The Philosophy of Relativism that has shaped the western mindset is the product of a materialist consumer culture, seeking to direct one's aspirations towards that which can be packaged and sold at a profit — and that includes pseudo-religious experience.

 

[Nothingtoknow]

Hi Nothingtoknow –
I thought I'd posted in response to this, but apparently not.


But that does not mean we're obliged to refute it. There is the acceptance of the fact that we don't know everything.

Take 'love' or 'toothache' — impossible to explain to someone who's never experienced it, but not incomprehensible.


The key point here is 'we', not 'I'.

I would point out the sacra doctrina of the world, and the evidence of the great Traditions, communicates an order of knowledge and experience that is possible.

On the other hand, we all accept as given stuff we really don't understand. Most people are quite happy to use domestic appliances, but how many can explain what electricity is or how it works?


Well in this instance, by 'it' I mean the range of religious experience. It's universal; it was there before science, and will remain after science has exhausted itself (according to the New Scientist).

The non-religious secularism as it is emerging in the West, it seems to me, is the product of a dependence upon technology to solve all the questions. Any question that cannot be solved on a calculator or therefore invalid. It's a self-imposed limitation on what it means to be human.

The Philosophy of Relativism that has shaped the western mindset is the product of a materialist consumer culture, seeking to direct one's aspirations towards that which can be packaged and sold at a profit — and that includes pseudo-religious experience.

The problem is when you experience 'toothache' or 'love' (physical and emotional reaction to a stimulus) and believe it is 'god realisation' or some spiritual experience' (without any firm evidence) and others are made to believe the same.