If Jesus suddenly came to earth, would he approve of modern Christianity?

just me said:
modern. Christians are not in the presence of God today.
that makes all the difference. Todays christians love one another as they are.
God loves us from what we are.
One is the love of the world. One one is the love of God..
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I confess I did not understand your message above. You say that "Today's Christians love one another and are loved by God, nevertheless they are not in the presence of God. I have tried to make sense our of this but I couldn't. What am I missing here?
 
Kbondar said:
One can easily telepathically communicate with the "other world", or as I prefer to call it "parallel universe". Learning to understand telepathy is somewhat like learning a foreign language, but once mastered, there is no limit for its use. Dreams are telepathy in the sleeping state.
I did learn to understand dreams and telepathy, did learn to interpret the symbolisms and I can indeed telepathically communicate with Jesus, ask him questions, decipher his answers. And you can to if you just set your mind to it.
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Is this what is called Séance? Houdini, the most famous magician in the History of Mankind proved it to be a false claim.
 
The problem with this is that you have not defined God, unless you stick with the omnipotent-omnipresent demagogue intent to punish you for the slightest error.
His mother was Jewish, his grandfather a Greek sailor, Joseph washed to shore in a shipwreck and lost his guts going back to sea and became a carpenter.
In my study I am explaining who God is, but first I needed to explain the concept of parallel universes, otherwise I might leave the impression Joseph was a god, which we all know he was not.
 
Kbondar said:
The problem with this is that you have not defined God, unless you stick with the omnipotent-omnipresent demagogue intent to punish you for the slightest error.
His mother was Jewish, his grandfather a Greek sailor, Joseph washed to shore in a shipwreck and lost his guts going back to sea and became a carpenter.
In my study I am explaining who God is, but first I needed to explain the concept of parallel universes, otherwise I might leave the impression Joseph was a god, which we all know he was not.
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First and foremost, God is undefinable. Hence I stick with no anthropomorphic god. In your studies, you assume to be able to explain who God is. I would be happy to have you share your explanation with me. You don't have to worry that I will have the impression that a man could be God. Judaism is of an absolute monotheistic character. (Isa. 46:5)
 
Shibolet said:
The man of sorrows aka the Suffering Servant of Isaiah 53:3 has absolutely nothing to do with Jesus. The Prophet himself identifies the man of sorrows by name to have been Israel. (Isa. 41:8,9; 44:1,2,21)
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Well, that seems like Christian manipulation . . .
 
Ahanu said:
Well, that seems like Christian manipulation . . .
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Does that make it right for other religions to manipulate Christian scripture? Would it not cause them to want to avoid the same mistake?

Concerning the OP -- Jesus would again condemn the hypocrites amongst the 'religious professionals' and whip the money changers out of the temple, imo?
 
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Perhaps He would again heal the cripples and give sight to the blind, again sacrifice his life on the cross -- the Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world, to end blood sacrifice forever, and rise again from the tomb as the new sinless Adam -- again rend the veil of the temple between man and God ... and ascend to the Father?*

Didn't He do that already, according to Christian scripture?

*To return at the end of the world to sort the sheep from the goats and the wheat from the tares
 
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You can't ascribe Isaiah 53 to Jacob (Israel) with this level of detail. Jesus met every point of this prophecy.

www.biblegateway.com

Bible Gateway passage: Isaiah 53 - English Standard Version

Who has believed what he has heard from us? And to whom has the arm of the LORD been revealed? For he grew up before him like a young plant, and like a root out of dry ground; he had no form or majesty that we should look at him, and no beauty that we should desire him. He was despised and...
www.biblegateway.com www.biblegateway.com
 
RJM said:
Does that make it right for other religions to manipulate Christian scripture?
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I am pointing out many Jewish commentators would say your reading of Isaiah 53 is manipulation.
 
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Ahanu said:
I am pointing out many Jewish commentators would say your reading of Isaiah 53 is manipulation.
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I don't deny it may be. Jesus clearly does not meet the Jewish Old Testament criteria of the Messiah. There are people who spend their whole lives trying to find Messiah references to Jesus in the OT.

It doesn't matter to me. The Christ has gone on to greater meaning than simply 'the annointed' Jewish Messiah, with the sacrifice of the cross and resurrection and ascension and tearing of the temple veil -- although nobody is required to believe these things.
 
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I believe the religious structure is the shell of the nut. Nevertheless, the scriptures say what they say about Jesus the Christ and there's no wiggle room in Christianity for a new updated Christ to appear, or attempting to derive such a message predicting Baha'u'llah or any other new Christ figure from the NT -- IMO
 
Faithfulservant said:
You can't ascribe Isaiah 53 to Jacob (Israel) with this level of detail. Jesus met every point of this prophecy.

www.biblegateway.com

Bible Gateway passage: Isaiah 53 - English Standard Version

Who has believed what he has heard from us? And to whom has the arm of the LORD been revealed? For he grew up before him like a young plant, and like a root out of dry ground; he had no form or majesty that we should look at him, and no beauty that we should desire him. He was despised and...
www.biblegateway.com www.biblegateway.com
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Of course you can.

You cannot read the passage literally and think "Jesus met every point of this prophecy." The text refers to the servant's reward - which includes having children ("see his seed"), having a long life ("prolong his days"), and dividing up the spoils of war ("divide the spoil with the strong").
 
Ahanu said:
Of course you can.

You cannot read the passage literally and think "Jesus met every point of this prophecy." The text refers to the servant's reward - which includes having children ("see his seed"), having a long life ("prolong his days"), and dividing up the spoils of war ("divide the spoil with the strong").
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You're stretching it based on the promises towards the Faithful servant?

Prophesies from Isaiah fulfilled . Virgin birth, sinless life, sacrificial death, He took our sin, He took our shame, He took our suffering, He took our separation, His resurrection and His return. I know it's hard to comprehend it since it goes against everything you believe.
 
Faithfulservant said:
You're stretching it based on the promises towards the Faithful servant?
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Some Jewish commentators would say you are stretching it since you are not taking the common-sense understanding. You said "Jesus met every point of this prophecy," yet he did not have children.
 
Faithfulservant said:
You're stretching it based on the promises towards the Faithful servant?

Prophesies from Isaiah fulfilled . Virgin birth, sinless life, sacrificial death, He took our sin, He took our shame, He took our suffering, He took our separation, His resurrection and His return. I know it's hard to comprehend it since it goes against everything you believe.
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Example:
According to the words "He shall see seed, he shall prolong days," the suffering servant is to be rewarded for his selflessness in the service of the Almighty by being blessed with children and prolongation of life. These two promises must be treated as a unit, as described in greater detail in Isaiah 65:20-23. Each promise complements the other, highlighting the ancient Hebraic ideal of viewing children and a long life as the two greatest rewards God gives to man here on earth. This is further illustrated in Job 5:25-26: "You shall know also that your seed shall be great, and your offspring as the grass of the earth. You shall come to your grave in ripe age, as a shock of corn in its season." From the manner in which the Hebrew word zer'a ("seed") is used in the Scriptures, there can be no doubt that actual physical offspring is meant here.

Christian commentators have interpreted certain verses in the Scriptures (Genesis 3:15, 38:8; Isaiah 1:4, 57:4; Malachi 2:15; Psalms 22:31; Proverbs 11:21) as referring only symbolically to "bodily seed." But such an interpretation is unwarranted, since in each of these verses the term "seed" can be taken in a literal and physical sense. While the literal understanding of these verses is generally evident, those from the Book of Isaiah are misunderstood by some people.

In Isaiah 57, the prophet castigates certain individuals (not the nation as a whole) for perpetuating the idolatrous practices of their parents. Isaiah calls them "sons of the sorceress, the seed of adulterers and the harlot" (verse 3). He then asks, "Are you not children of transgression, a seed of falsehood?" (verse 4). These verses are a scathing denunciation of wicked offspring who uphold the sinful ways of their parents. They are what the prophet has earlier termed a "seed of evil-doers" (1:4) that is, children of parents who do evil deeds. Those spoken to in Isaiah 57 were conceived in adultery and harlotry; they are the resultant products of transgression and falsehood. Literally, they are children born as a result of parental transgression, a seed born as a result of parental falsehood.

Christian commentators would like us to believe that the term "seed" is used metaphorically, meaning, in Isaiah 53:10, "disciples." Generally, the Hebrew word bayn ("son") may be employed metaphorically with the meaning "disciples," but never is the term zer'a ("seed") used in this sense. For example, "And Abraham said: 'Behold to me You have given no seed (zer'a), and, see the son (ben) of my house is my heir.' And, behold, the word of the Lord came to him, saying: 'This man shall not be your heir, but he that shall come forth out of your own bowels shall be your heir'" (Genesis 15:3-4). Hence, zer'a must be taken literally, which rules out the possibility that it refers to Jesus since he had no children of his own.
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Ahanu said:
Some Jewish commentators would say you are stretching it since you are not taking the common-sense understanding. You said "Jesus met every point of this prophecy," yet he did not have children.
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For to us a child is born, to us a son is given; and the government shall be upon his shoulder, and his name shall be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace” (Isaiah 9:6, ESV).

Christianity holds to Adam being the Father of mankind who sinned and brought death and Jesus as the Father for the new mankind without sin for eternity. So, as the Everlasting Father, the Messiah will be a father, and His fatherhood will be without end. I would say He has many children not physically but spiritually.
 
Ahanu said:
Exactly. A reading that is not literal.
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Ok, so for argument sake: where Isiaah uses the words adulterer and harlot, are the words meant literally -- or as seems obvious in the context of the passage metaphorically -- referring to adultery and harlotry with other gods?
 
Ahanu said:
Exactly. A reading that is not literal.



I have updated it with the link to Jews for Judaism.
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So.. if you are all about taking everything literally you would have to apply that to everything right? In my thread why I take the bible literally it was pointed out that I shouldn't take a 6 day creation as literal.. So yeah.. I'm going to just throw that one right back.. the odds that one man fulfilled all those prophesies in Isaiah 53 700 years before His birth is extraordinary. You are trifling because He didn't have physical children? That would take away the sinless part would it not?

Genesis and Revelation speak of the seed of woman.. explain that?


As far as Jews for Judaism.. of course they wouldn't accept Christian theology. They don't accept Jesus as their Messiah.

can we take John 1 literally?

John 1:10 He was in the world, and the world was made through him, yet the world did not know him. 11 He came to his own and his own people did not receive him.

This is like you trying to convince me that your god is MY God.. I don't receive your book as Jews don't receive ours. But because they don't accept ours I don't fault them . Because YOU accept ours you are held accountable to it... The whole of it.. so I get to tear down faulty reasoning whenever I see it. I don't accept yours so guess what? I'm not going to argue or debate it with you and tell you that you are wrong

The sad thing is I have no desire to look into it because of a certain member of your religion. I have been completely turned off and that's a shame and I hope that changes.
 
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