Actually, it's [Guenon's] insight into the heart of things that shines out. It's his insights into the core truths of all the world's traditions that first drew my attention to him. And the attention of others. I'd review your notes, if I were you, and not the ones provided by your mentors.
Dodging the bullet is fine, but you did not address my criticism. Guenon is biased, and he is mistaken. You may like his writings and find some of his insights helpful, but unless you can see past *his* shortcomings, you take them upon yourself, Thomas. You own them, and it need not be so.
The fact is, however, we barely begin to scratch the surface. Your antipathy toward Theosophy, Theosophists and all things Theosophical has been evident for years. It is not my part to speculate upon what karma, what personal experiences of your own led to this set of circumstances ... be they recent, or in some prior incarnation unknown to us all. But I do think you yourself tell a bit of the tale below, in mentioning your own, *direct* experience in an esoteric school which rubbed you the wrong way. This speaks volumes, yet I have to wonder if it has simply taken a decade to finally write (or type) those few short lines - so clearly.
Thomas said:
I tell you what stands out – plain as day – is your continual need to disparage everyone else. A wise man ... in fact a number of the wise across many traditions agree, that: 'If you've nothing good to say, better to not say anything'.
I will not watch you sabotage a discussion which I began as positive, and constructive, aimed toward clearing away a bit of the confusion which is sometimes brought to the table. And yes, chiefly by you. I have always pussyfooted around it, and yes, sometimes with less gracefulness than I know I ought to demonstrate. Yet Thomas, you make it a real challenge to pull Respect out of my ass when your Wytchfinder General mode gets turned on.
Maybe there's something you have to share from your favorite esoteric authority which actually adds to the discussion, and either supports the point, or else isn't simply a `drive-by' in which you yourself are hiding in the passenger seat, or back seat, letting Rene G. here take all the flak. I mean, did you get a chuckle out of it, or what?
The exact quote is "Modern counterfeits of tradition like occultism and theosophy..." ~ and I do not know what follows, due to the ellipsis. But the point is immediately understood that Thomas, and his confederate Guenon here, do not buy the description of what Theosophy is, given by Theosophists themselves, or by the Mahatmas, regarding the teachings that have originated with or been revealed by Them
as Theosophy!
Well, you are certainly entitled to an opinion, and to believe whatever nonsense you set your heart upon believing, but Thomas, I'm not exactly as dumb as some of the folks who apparently are wowed and enamored with your towering intellect. I have said before, wow me with Church history, or whatever it is about your own path which - to be certain - I do not know. Roman Catholicism is just not my thing, but chances are that the experiences which you have had can provide a perspective which means more ... at least around here, than the price of tea in China. So ...
Trot out the Guenon if you must, but be prepared, please, to back up your assertion. You seem to think Theosophical ideas are pretty well a mishmash of whatever old HPB and her dupes could cook up with a ouija board ... for - though you yourself may never have uttered those words, the kind of disparaging, negative things you have to say about *all things Theosophical* or which do not smack of your own `esoterism' - say it or not, you make your opinions abundantly clear. And I don't find those pock shots, straw man attempts, gazes down your nose and vain efforts to simply brush aside what isn't convenient - as FRIENDLY, either.
Believe it or not, it does go both ways. And everyone knows it. There's probably plenty of room for both of us to learn - and demonstrate - that in fact, you don't have to be particularly fond of another person, or `like them' or their beliefs, or believe one word of it, or care to ... in order to strive toward the GOAL of rational, civil discourse. It's just that in this case, I happen to feel like you are out of your depth. You've had some experience, and maybe not just limited to one esoteric school ...
But Thomas, it's not safe to make too many assumptions about another person, or what they've been through, if they themselves have not shared it with you, or if you don't otherwise, somehow - know it. And one thing you'd stop blathering about - if you but knew it - is how Theosophy just doesn't `shore up,' or
measure up, or `fit the bill' ... since for you, this is abundantly, ridiculously clear, while yet for many thousands of people, across perhaps 4 or 5, maybe more generations now,
it does. And yeah, I mean all around this great big world, from America to India, Australia to Japan, the Philippines to Russia, and ALL over the UK, too.
All you have to be able to do, is accept that. And you're having a hard time. I'm sorry about that, for it's not my job to force you - or anyone - or anything ... while yet if I can help folks to see what it is that Theosophists DO believe, and what they ARE interested in doing, with respect to say, Christianity, Islam, Hinduism, Buddhism, religions in general, politics in general, diplomacy in general, and so forth - then MAYBE, just MAYBE, folks will stop freaking out when they come into contact with people who are *not* Catholic, or Christian, or Pagan, or Agnostic at all ... but are, in fact, part of the modern Theosophical Movement or mindset. I realize that many folks immediately will invoke images of Shirley Maclaine, and that's not bad at all ... since `through the glass darkly,' yes, she *might as well be* today's HPB, for all we know.
Either learn to understand, relate to, connect with and thus achieve COOPERATION WITH your Brother, or else be condemned - self-condemned - to despise, to belittle, to combat or to try to CONTROL him. Our problems are deeper-rooted and more basic, in some ways, than some would like to admit, yet they are also, often by very virtue of this, almost - the same. They do overlap, and they do affect, as well as mirror, all of Humanity (and our collective problems). You can never do better than to acknowledge and accept this, and Ponder its implications ... except to APPLY that simple aspect our existence and [while remaining firmly rooted to this shared space upon the floor of this Cave] make the best of it.
Some will not like being told, learning, and having to face the FACT that we are, in this sense, almost literally bound - just a few feet away - from both our greatest Friends, in a very real sense, and our greatest adversaries. But if one understands the Allegory intimately enough to begin with, and is prepared to deal with the implications, imagine what use, how much greater benefit, this Soul - and heart and mind - is, and can be, in the Service of the Lord of Lords.
Now the difficulty is, if you cut yourself off from the Fountain, the Spring, the very Source of Wisdom and Love, and Truth and Guidance ... even in but one of its humblest, imperfect and proverbially wayward of exponents, then you also - even unwittingly - deny yourself a certain measure of the Light, of the Love, of that Truth. I hope that if you must Ponder again, and yet again what I have said, that you will see, even gladly acknowledge that it is so. It goes both ways, and if I do not have any exchanges with you - then whoever you are, or have been, or are yet to become - is temporarily *lost* to me.
But to see Thomas disappear from Interfaith.org, seems absurd. Projects do require our attention, and my time will come. I do hope you are returning, when time permits, and when the resolve to `Keep the Faith' is as strong as ever, and Service the same great Goal as it has ever been with you. And I am sure that this will be so!
"And if I should have prophecy and should know all mysteries, and all knowledge, and if I should have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing." 1 Corinthians 13:2
There's a lot of wisdom in Paul's words. Offer me knowledge or caritas, I'll take caritas every time. Knowledge without caritas leads to elitism, and I'm afraid down through the ages, the 'esoteric schools' reek of it. The one to which I belonged was full of it.
Well, there you have it. We'd like everyone to be the perfect exemplar of Agape-Love, yet I would suggest that it is our own Journey, and our Co-Attainment of this *same Goal* which will hold us fast to the Path. We can easily see where our neighbor needs the improvement. To know ourselves as well - can take some Sirius huevos.
Sorry that your experiences have been less than stellar. I have tales of three or four esoteric groups, and peripherally plenty more. I have overwhelmingly positive and Soulful, uplifting, moving experiences and memories, including the forging and renewing of most of the greatest Friendships I've ever made ... tales to share of Wonders, Beauty, Magnificence and all that I could have ever hoped and dreamed of. There is hard work, and there are stories of difficulties, periods of adjustment, trials which led to change and those which continue to call me Forward - while reminding me squarely, at times, of my own limitations (self-imposed or otherwise).
Most of all, however, I know of the possibilities - for us ALL - and I know that NOTHING can swerve our feet from the Path of evolution, and that all setbacks are but temporary, and experiences in the life of the personality but fleeting. With sound perspective, action in the present becomes more vital, never less so. The Solution is always provided, and guaranteed, yet it is up to us to discover this, to find the many possibilities and ways to apply a Solution, and to make sure that we gain from an experience whatever lessons are being provided from the Soul plane `downward.' Some lessons are familiar, and everything - truly everything we do in life - is the manifestation of a higher turn of the proverbial Spiral.
Love, the Great Law of Attraction, governs our entire Solar System. It most certainly does not originate locally, but it is the very Law of Life, the substance of our Being, and it is what the Feather of Ma'at is weighed `against' once we stand before Thoth-Hermes and hear our heart go `thud' upon that Libran SCALE, measuring in the Grand, Greater Balance how well we have connected - as did those folks in Ephesus so long ago - with the Apostle's words in chapter 4, verse 13.
To know that we are not judged and sentenced to an ETERNAL `reward' or `damnation' based upon a few, short decades (or none, for the stillborn) of FINITE actions, words and thoughts ... is comforting to me, and I believe that some `Knowledge' - certainly when provided, shared, taught and revealed in the Light of Love - is very much worth having, even cherishing above most other forms of knowledge, such as how to cheat while playing the stock market, or go fracking for natural gas on land that you don't own, or get away with crimes against both Humanity and Nature which in fact, we really ought not even be thinking about.
So yeah, I dig love ... and I want you to know, I DIG LOVE. I also know that it goes hand in hand with Wisdom, and that these, together, are but two sides of one coin, Yin and Yang, either one being non-existent in our Universe and for our Humanity, without the other.
The name of the game is - I like it like that.
