Paul the 13th? - I Cor. 1:1

Devils' Advocate said:
1 - This concept of replacement theology is new to me. Apparently not to the world though; it has been around a long time.

2 - The issue, from my admittedly limited perspective, is that the Christian Bible includes both the Old Testament (Torah), and the New. Yet the New Testament is the 'true' Christian Bible.

3 - The Muslims did not add to this complication by including the former works in theirs. The Koran stands on its own. As a continuation of the Torah & (NT) Bible. If I have that correct?

4 - If the Christians had started their Holy Book with the New Testament and proposed it as a continuation of the Torah, but not a replacement, I wonder if many of these problems between Jews and Christians could have been avoided.

5 - The point is moot of course, cause that is not what happened. As a point for discussion though, if the New Testament had been a stand alone book, do you think the schism between Jews and Christians would be so great?
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1 - I wonder because the foundations of the NT is the Pauline policy of Replacement Theology.

2 - But the Tanach aka the OT is read only as shadows of things to come. Perhaps the NT. (Col. 216,17) Hence, Replacement Theology.

3 - Both adopt the Pauline policy of Replacement Theology. Taking for instance Deut. 18:15, both try to displace the Jews from claiming Joshua as the prophet like unto Moses to be anointed at Moses' death by claiming that it was Jesus in the case of the NT and Mohamed in the case of the Koran. (Deut. 34:9)

4 - Replacement because the NT could never be a continuation of the Torah. The NT is too Hellenist and, the Torah is absolutely against Hellenism. The problem between Jews and Christians as the NT is concerned, cannot be avoided because the NT itself is liable to the millions of Jews murdered throughout the History of the world.

5 - There has never been a schism between Jews and Christians because they have never been together in the first place. And the trajedy is that if the NT is cleared of Replacement Theology Christianity will collapse. There is not a single Christian who can preach from a pulpit without promoting the Pauline policy of Replacement Theology.
 
A Cup Of Tea said:
Nothing I said had anything to do with me as a person, I was asking if the fact that the majority is unmoved by your logic and reasoning had any affect on you.

DA, wil, but originally Christianity was built on both. If you want to take the OT out now and make something new that would be one way, but originally the religion worked because it had both, the NT was understood in the context of the old and I guess the old was reread in the context of the new.
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Sorry, but you are absolutely wrong. The NT is Hellenist; the Tanach is Judaism. One has nothing to do with the other.
 
I surely cannot say if you are right or you are wrong, or (as is often the case) the 'truth' is somewhere in the middle. Not knowing you except for what you post, Shib, it is difficult for me to understand you. You seem to have a huge chip on your shoulder the way you keep bludgeoning this issue. You come across as a hard liner and a fundamentalist.

I think I can safely say for most all of us who post on a regular basis that we get your point. Is there no room in your mind for conciliation between the two? Or must Jews and Christians be at odds for all the rest of eternity.
 
Shibolet said:
Sorry, but you are absolutely wrong. The NT is Hellenist; the Tanach is Judaism. One has nothing to do with the other.
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for 1700 years they've been combined in the same book...

for Jews your answer may be correct...

for christians and muslims they are inextricably connected...

of course this doesn't fit your agenda...
 
lol.... gad... you back on that again...

You are the only Jew I know that has this issue...the others are rather glad to have Christians out of the fold...
 
No, you are wrong! To build oneself on the Faith of another is plagiarism bordering on vandalism. Shib.

Oh Good Grief! Take a chill pill. It actually is most amusing to me to see people playing the NoYouAreWrong game back and forth when it comes to religion.

Not a one of you know for a fact. Not a single one of you. You cannot know. It is how Gods created the religious system. You get zero concrete proof so you have to go by your best intuition. No matter how much someone goes on about how they KNOW they are right, and everyone else is wrong, it is in the end nothing but their personal interpretation.

You may believe you have it right - for you. That is the best any individual can hope for. Anything beyond that is hubris.
 
DA, you said,

"No matter how much someone goes on about how they KNOW they are right, and everyone else is wrong, it is in the end nothing but their personal interpretation."

--> I think that, for example, when a Jewish person says Christianity is all wrong, the Jewish person may very well end up being a Christian in their next life time. Then they'll be telling us how the Jewish faith is all wrong! Hilarious!
 
wil said:
lol.... gad... you back on that again...

You are the only Jew I know that has this issue...the others are rather glad to have Christians out of the fold...
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That's why the Jews are expected to sit duck and serve as target for shooting practices. That's why we have lost so many Jews to Christianity.
 
Devils' Advocate said:
No, you are wrong! To build oneself on the Faith of another is plagiarism bordering on vandalism. Shib.

Oh Good Grief! Take a chill pill. It actually is most amusing to me to see people playing the NoYouAreWrong game back and forth when it comes to religion.

Not a one of you know for a fact. Not a single one of you. You cannot know. It is how Gods created the religious system. You get zero concrete proof so you have to go by your best intuition. No matter how much someone goes on about how they KNOW they are right, and everyone else is wrong, it is in the end nothing but their personal interpretation.

You may believe you have it right - for you. That is the best any individual can hope for. Anything beyond that is hubris.
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Really! Let's see if it is all a matter of personal interpretation. The NT picks up a Jew and tells us that he was born a demigod, aka the son of a god with an earthly woman. (Mat. 1:18) We all know that Judaism is against this kind of idolatry. If this Jew (Jesus) was not a Jew but a Greek, I guarantee you all that I would not be here discussing any of these things.
 
Shibolet said:
Really! Let's see if it is all a matter of personal interpretation. The NT picks up a Jew and tells us that he was born a demigod, aka the son of a god with an earthly woman. (Mat. 1:18) We all know that Judaism is against this kind of idolatry. If this Jew (Jesus) was not a Jew but a Greek, I guarantee you all that I would not be here discussing any of these things.
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There is Greek Mythology, there is Judaism and there is Christianity, all different from each other. The trinity is how, most, of Christianity differs from Greek Mythology.
 
Shib, obviously I will not convince you that your vision of religion is your personal interpretation. Not that it isn't shared by a lot of others - of course it is. There are a lot of others who perceive it differently though. To them their interpretation is the correct one.

And round and round and round me go. I'm getting dizzy though so I think I will drop out of that part of the discussion. I am satisfied that I have made my pov as plainly as I could.
 
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