I am the Devils’ Advocate.

Hi DA –
Devils' Advocate said:
Will power was certainly involved. My anger was not kept in check. I used my anger to focus my intent on a result. I'm not a combative guy by nature. Anger often gives me a focus of intent that I do not normally have.
Click to expand...
I don't see anger as negative in itself, although, like anything, it can have a negative outcome.

We have something in common. When my father way dying (we did not know just how soon at the time), the doctor at the hospital said he could take an oxygen tank home. My partner went with my mum to collect him.

The ward was a ward for the dying, and the closest to death was kept in a bed nearest the door, because the cart they carried away the corpses on had a squeaky wheel. Dad spoke of their collective fear, listening to that trolley squeaking along in the night ... slowly rotating beds to be nearer the door ...

Once there, the ward nurse said there wasn't a tank available, and she was busy, so he couldn't be released. My mum, God bless her, who comes from a generation that was taught to respect 'authority', accepted the situation. My partner, who comes from a different background, most certainly did not. Nor was she about to accept there wasn't a spare oxy tank to be found, and told the nurse that if she couldn't be bothered to find one, she would find one herself...

It was 'an irresistible force meets an immovable object' situation, only on this occasion, the irresistible force proved ... irresistible. The tank was found and they took dad home.

He died the following day, but mum said he sang in his sleep that night.

I think there's such a thing as righteous anger – it's simply the measure of the distance between what people do, and what they ought to do.
 
ack...the dying ward...that sounds horrendous. Mother singing him to sleep, that sounds beautiful... your mate fighting for what is right, that sounds wonderful...

When a doc told my sister she would regain her sight...and then told me mum and me in the hallway she'd be blind forever...I insisted he walk right back in and tell her the truth... my mother asked me to calm down... I said "I am calm, my hands are not around this idiots throat."
 
Thanks for that story Thomas. What you said about righteous anger; it being the distance between what people do and what they aught to do - that is a good summation of my belief about what are considered the negative emotions. When someone experiences a negative emotion, and does what they aught to do with those feelings, that makes the actions a positive. A positive act derived from a negative emotion.

Wil, I am shocked that a doctor would act in such a way. It is his job to tell the patient the truth. He is not supposed to have a choice. Both your stories underline a Truth about hospitals. Family members are always going to be the best advocates for their loved ones than anyone else there!

That is a Truth I am willing to stand by!!!!!
 
I could understand ....maybe....if she was a child....she was 36 years old... I was 33... a lot more full of piss and vinegar than today.... in the book power vs force he lists anger as a step in development...a way to move beyond fear, grief, apathy, shame and pull ourcellves up.

Power%20vs.%20Force%20by%20Church%20of%20Cosmos.jpeg
 
wil said:
ack...the dying ward...that sounds horrendous.
Click to expand...
It was a portacabin – d'you know them? A temporary structure you can hitch up on a flatbed truck. It was like, 'they're dying anyway, so who gives a flying fu...'

wil said:
Mother singing him to sleep, that sounds beautiful...
Click to expand...
No dude, HE WAS SINGING IN HIS SLEEP! Never heard him sing in my life! He played the best fiddle you'll ever hear (IMHO) but sing? Dad? I took that as proof of the soul ... he knew he was going home.

wil said:
your mate fighting for what is right, that sounds wonderful...
Click to expand...
She's something.

Jeez man, when we were courting ... D'you know the term 'banter'? We used to entertain our friends for hours! A family friend once tried to pay her a complement by saying, "I like you, you argue like a man!" He got a right royal bollocking for being sexist.

wil said:
When a doc told my sister she would regain her sight...and then told me mum and me in the hallway she'd be blind forever...I insisted he walk right back in and tell her the truth... my mother asked me to calm down... I said "I am calm, my hands are not around this idiots throat."
Click to expand...
Kudos!
 
yikes... they have trailers/shipping containers for the waiting to die? This is the type of horrors they were trying to tell us about socialized medicine here stateside....

of course we pay tremendous amounts of money to house our parents and grandparents in 'rest' homes, 'nursing' homes... I told my kids a cruise ship is cheaper, send me on a month cruise and in the last week I'll chum for sharks and dive in.
 
wil said:
I could understand ....maybe....if she was a child....she was 36 years old... I was 33... a lot more full of piss and vinegar than today.... in the book power vs force he lists anger as a step in development...a way to move beyond fear, grief, apathy, shame and pull ourcellves up.

Power%20vs.%20Force%20by%20Church%20of%20Cosmos.jpeg
Click to expand...

This resonates with me well. I have worked myself up from the bottom. Good post addition.
 
according to the author....the vast majority of society is below 200 on the scale...

Buddha, Jesus are the likes of which attained the top...

Each of us is wavering as to where we are, in some situations we roll right back down to shame.
 
wil said:
according to the author....the vast majority of society is below 200 on the scale...

Buddha, Jesus are the likes of which attained the top...

Each of us is wavering as to where we are, in some situations we roll right back down to shame.
Click to expand...

I can see that. I would say there is a hell below shame, but maybe shame has its own distict flavor variations. Who is this guy?
 
I understand that we are human with polarity all around and indeed within us. The ideal progression is (at least to me) IS to rise from my lower nature, the EGO that drive humans into kill, steal, abuse one and other, hatred, jealousy. While I know we all have these, the proper and prudent thing is to strive to eliminate these with the elimination of the EGO. If you with to embrace these negative tendencies it is your business. But I am still saying, "you are betting on the wrong horse".
 
Ego, always ego ... once the devil and his demons were to blame, now it's ego! I'm naming myself, officially, as the ego's advocate. At least it gives a sh't how you feel.
 
Very interesting chart there, Wil. As with all such items, it has its positive and negative aspects. Positive in that it helps a person to analyze where they have been, where they are, and where they hope to be going forward.

Negative in the sense that we are never actually but one of those items. We are a mixing bowl; no make that a blender, of most all those feelings listed. In that sense the table is illusory. We humans tend to think too binary, when we are truly an inner colony of attributes all bundled up into one whole person. Some parts of ourselves are higher up the scale than other portions of ourselves. Some parts are lower down the scale.

As always in life, it is critical to perceive that there are layers of reality, most of which we are not naturally capable of being aware of. Perceive, if you will, a still cold mountain tarn. One can see right down to the lake bottom the water is so clear. It is easy to believe since we can see the bottom so clearly, there is nothing between it and the surface.

But there is. There is SO much between the surface and the bottom. Such is reality. As I perceive it anyway.
 
In the book it describes how we are all of those in various relationships and times in our lives...

when our buttons get pushed we may zoom down the scale....in moments of understanding we may zoom up the scale temporarily...

there is a good section of the book where he describes how one in one state or another would view a certain situation... Power vs. Force: David R. Hawkins M.D. Ph.D.: 9781401945077: Amazon.com: Books

for the perception based on level... Homelessness Seen Through 15 Different Sets of Eyes
 
Devils' Advocate said:
Very interesting chart there, Wil. As with all such items, it has its positive and negative aspects. Positive in that it helps a person to analyze where they have been, where they are, and where they hope to be going forward.

Negative in the sense that we are never actually but one of those items. We are a mixing bowl; no make that a blender, of most all those feelings listed. In that sense the table is illusory. We humans tend to think too binary, when we are truly an inner colony of attributes all bundled up into one whole person. Some parts of ourselves are higher up the scale than other portions of ourselves. Some parts are lower down the scale.

As always in life, it is critical to perceive that there are layers of reality, most of which we are not naturally capable of being aware of. Perceive, if you will, a still cold mountain tarn. One can see right down to the lake bottom the water is so clear. It is easy to believe since we can see the bottom so clearly, there is nothing between it and the surface.

But there is. There is SO much between the surface and the bottom. Such is reality. As I perceive it anyway.
Click to expand...

This is good. You're very intelligent DA
 
Because of some very intuitive insight by Tea, I felt it was only proper to post this here for everyone to see.

Time for a confession. I was Gordian Knot back in the day. There came a time when I felt I needed to start fresh; too much baggage with my GK. So I became DA. I have not broken any forum rules; since becoming DA I have not posted anything under my old name. GK was left behind completely.

I made the change only for the reasons noted; there were no sinister motivations on my part. And I hope the rest of you will agree. Agree or not, if you would like to respond to this, or have any questions, please do so.

Steve, I do not think I broke the rules of the forum. That being said I would be particularly appreciative if you would post your opinion here. This group means a great deal to me.
 
Oh, I remember GK...

... but 'you' are DA as far as I am concerned. No issues here.
 
I was not here during your GK days. Sounds to me like you simply "cut the knot". I appreciate and enjoy your contribution DA. ED
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top