A Thought Provoking Question...

[Namaste Jesus]

Here's a question posed by my 11 year old grandnephew. I started to answer him a number of times on this, but each time I opened my mouth to speak, my head started spinning and nothing came out. Here it is.

Are the people in our dreams capable of independent thought? ​

 

[A Cup Of Tea]

Hm!
Independent from what?

 

[Namaste Jesus]

Hm!
Independent from what?

Independent of our own thoughts. In other words do the people in our dreams think on their own?

 

[arthra]

I think my response would be that "people" in our dreams are usually based on memories we have while being awake. But it's possible in a spiritual dream that one could have a communication from an entity in the spiritual world...that is a relative or someone who could be communicating with us.

That eleven year old child could become a super-Jungian therapist someday!

 

[BigJoeNobody]

I guess I'm a little insensitive (maybe?), but I would only say no, dreams are a reflection of our experiences and thoughts. A message might be learned from them that God (given you believe in such) is sending you, but the images are immaterial.

Ok that may not be the best answer for a 11 year old.

Of course if you buy in to telepathy, you can say the images are of other people's thoughts.

 

[Devils' Advocate]

Remarkably thought provoking for an 11 year old! If dreams are you processing data while you sleep, then the answer would be no.

 

[Senthil]

My answer is no too. It's the individual's subconscious, and the impressions within it of other people.

 

[Aussie Thoughts]

Here's a question posed by my 11 year old grandnephew.

Damn mate! Have you ever thought about having that kid checked out?

Are the people in our dreams capable of independent thought?

Hell I don't know, but I've seen too much in this world to completely rule it out. Now, from an Aboriginal perspective I'm sure the answer would be yes. As they view the people of our dreams as manifestations of past spirits and souls.

 

[Namaste Jesus]

Remarkably thought provoking for an 11 year old!

He's been asking questions like that from the time he was able to form complete sentences.

That eleven year old child could become a super-Jungian therapist someday!

My wife often refers to him as little Buddha.

I guess I'm a little insensitive (maybe?), but I would only say no, dreams are a reflection of our experiences and thoughts.

My answer is no too. It's the individual's subconscious, and the impressions within it of other people.

That was my knee jerk reaction to the question as well, but then the spiritual side of me kicked in and I wasn't able to simply dismiss the possibility.

Perhaps I should explain what prompted him to ask the question in the first place. You see, he often has dreams where he is aware that he is dreaming. Actually we share that trait, though we are of no blood relation. Anyway, in that state he is able to manipulate the dream somewhat and control his own actions. He has observed however, that he is unable to control the actions of others in his dream. This led him to believe that they were perhaps thinking on their own and prompted the question posed here.

 

[Senthil]

Total strangers in dreams could be another matter. You didn't say if 'the people' were people he knew or not. Strangers can be composite characters, like in fiction, or fantasy characters like in fiction. So it could be two real people rolled into one.

But they can also be inner beings. There are many tales in mystic lineages of Hinduism (and I suspect other faiths) of dream meetings with Gurus or saints, despite having never met that soul in Real life. Only later when the real life meeting or 'seeing a picture in a book' does happen does that the person realises it.

 

[Namaste Jesus]

Total strangers in dreams could be another matter. You didn't say if 'the people' were people he knew or not.

Sometimes it's people he knows and sometimes not. He had a dream once where one of his friends was a doctor. Specifically an ER doctor. A few days later, that friend shows up at school with a cast on his arm telling everyone about his ambulance ride to the hospital. After meeting all of his new teachers this year, he told us that one of them was in a dream he had the night before. Other times the people in his dreams have no particular significance other than the fact that he was aware that he was dreaming and in control of his own actions, but not theirs. He does know the difference between an ordinary dream and one that's not. He seldom mentions the ordinary stuff.

 

[earl]

Well, children, particularly younger ones, seem to often display quite an array of what we might refer to as parapsychological abilities which may fade with age. Earl

 

[Devils' Advocate]

And if so, why do they fade? My suspicion is that it is more a matter of conditioning by adults that they have to give up that fantasy stuff and adhere to more adult belief systems. If true, what a horrible disservice we do to our kids!

 

[Namaste Jesus]

As I understand it, it has something to do with the conscious mind gaining control over the subconscious as it develops. Essentially, we learn to put more trust in the tangible, than the intangible and thereby loose our sense of mysticism. Thankfully, some of us regain it while others never loose it.

 

[Senthil]

In Hinduism, it would be considered remnants of the last lifetime, or former lifetimes. The soul has yet to build its new physical body, its new subconscious, its new ego, its new personality. As all these things develop, the old is slowly forgotten about. The soul naturally just wants one of these new 'machines to work out more karma in' at a time, but in the transition period, its sort of like having two.

Same principle as when in a single lifetime, the embodied soul moves houses or buys a new car. For awhile the old house is still in the subconscious, but over a few years its effects and memories dissipate.

But age 11 is a bit old for this sort of stuff. The new 'person' is quite developed by then. I see this type of questioning more as a psychological development, entering what Piaget termed 'formal thought'.

 

[Namaste Jesus]

But age 11 is a bit old for this sort of stuff. The new 'person' is quite developed by then.

I very much agree. I was speaking in general terms. My grandnephew has definitely past this stage. Thankfully, he seems to have retained his sense of mysticism. One of his parents is Hindu after all.

 

[Senthil]

The mystical stuff that very young children say is generally a 'telling' not an asking. "I came from a tree." My grandma wore a red dress." "I miss my friend Roger." That sort of thing ... out of the blue stuff, to the non-mystically inclined adult. but perfectly normal to them.

 

[Aussie Thoughts]

Other times the people in his dreams have no particular significance other than the fact that he was aware that he was dreaming and in control of his own actions, but not theirs. He does know the difference between an ordinary dream and one that's not. He seldom mentions the ordinary stuff.

Oh, now I get it. The lad understands exactly what a dream is, but there are times when, instead of being a casual observer, he knows he's dreaming and is able to direct his own movement. His whole thing is, if everything in his dream is of his own making, than he should be able to control the movement of others as well. Since he can't, he's thinking the others in his dream are capable of independent thought. Wow, I think my head's about to explode!

 

[Senthil]

Until reading this thread, I didn't know some people COULDN'T do that. That's what makes dreams fun. You're the director and actor at the same time.

 

[EdgyDolmen]

Re: Thread Post

It appears to me that all religions arose to deal with death, weakness, dreams, and fear of the unknown. Religions are a powerful means for giving significance to life and giving a personal or cultural identity. This statement applies to children too.

God is only “known” through meditation, prayer or imagination and these experiences point to nothing outside a person’s mind. Again, including children.

Millions of people claim personally to “know” God through an inner spiritual experience. This “knowing” is, I believe, mysticism and can be explained psychologically. I've said on this forum before and say it again, we all know that many people, including healthy children, routinely hear voices, hallucinate and talk with their imaginary friends. We do not know that their god is different than our god! Amen?