Is it wrong to tell an aetheist parent that their dead child "is in heaven"?

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Aussie - Since I edited my original response I could not help myself. This just spilled out. This is merely one of scores of thoughts that your comment provoked. Regarding death, children, christianity, atheism...

Within the covers of your holy book god not only directed the bashing of a child's head against some boulders but personally killed approximately 400,000 people and directed the killing of another 2 million or so yet that mean old evil satan of yours only killed Job's children and that was at the direction of your 'loving' god. (References upon request)

These numbers are accurate according to your favorite book but of course we know these numbers are ultimately inaccurate because your god is omnipotent and created both good and evil. Therefore he is obviously responsible for all evil and all death. Considering the aforementioned numbers and actions along with omnipotence it seems a child born into a christian home is likely less safe than one born into an atheist home.

P.S. - All of these accounts are in your book but if I accepted them as truth - I would be as ignorant as you!
 
We have one very non interfaith response that has created a plethora of non interfaith responses..

A mantra I try and fail at is....will what I have to say improve upon the silence....its sister is ....if you cant say anything nice, don't say anything at all...and THINK (is it True,Helpful,Inspirational, Necessary, Kind) before you speak...

The holier than thou attitude is what pisses off many regarding any zealout know it all in any religion....for me it is a combination of irritation, embarrassment, and incredulous ness...
 
wil said:
A mantra I try and fail at is....will what I have to say improve upon the silence....its sister is ....if you cant say anything nice, don't say anything at all...and THINK (is it True,Helpful,Inspirational, Necessary, Kind) before you speak...
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I don't disagree with you. BUT. It is also right and necessary to call someone out when they have gone this far beyond simple human decency. Christians like to talk about 'What Would Jesus Do'. It sure isn't what Aussie did.
 
Sure, but lets just call it out and move on, I feel there are a lot of bridges being burned and walls being built right now. We all know this shit goes on and Christianity isn't the only place where it occurs. Let's not dig this grave any deeper.

Aussie, I found your comment offensive but not particularly uncommon, I have a clearer picture of your views and will understand what you write better now.
 
The Above comments are why it is difficult for Atheists and Believers to have conversations. Before you all go super psycho, let me explain.

The statement Aussie made is only grotesque if you see this world's endeavors as the ultimate goal. If however you see the Afterlife as the ultimate goal, then his statement is beyond reasonable. I've heard this argument several times before I understood it, so I'm not expecting everyone to understand. In Islam (and most forms of Abrahamic faiths) the point of this life is a test. A test to show who is worthy of heaven, and who is not. In Islam the belief is that all children are born pure and good. Servants of Allah without question. They are taught otherwise by parents and community. Now if a merciful God saw this Child could not grow and have a chance of maintaining his path, he would shorten his test to allow for ease of entry into heaven, all the while showing the Atheist parents that they aren't in control of anything. It is up to them to recognize and seek the answers. Now why are your feathers ruffled? Why are you getting defensive? Is it that maybe you know that there might be some merit to his point, or are you just trying to show your own superiority? If he didn't believe his way was best, why would he believe it? Getting mad at someone because they think they are right and you cannot prove them wrong is usually a sign of not knowing exactly what you subliminally might think it correct, but lack the understanding to give it credit. If you truly didn't believe it, then why not shrug it off as a stupid comment?
 
Aussie Thoughts said:
That said, if you know the person you're expressing condolence to is atheist, you've got to realize Godly sentiments will fall on deaf ears. Save your breath. Perhaps something along the lines of, I know you don't believe as I do, but if there's anything I can do, would be more appropriate.
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I agree.
Aussie Thoughts said:
Now here's where I'm going to ruffle a few feathers. Actually, I find the whole situation rather ironic. Here's a baby born with seemingly no medical chance at survival. Yet, the parents, by rejecting God have completely disallowed the one thing that may have enabled their child to survive. Prayer to the almighty!
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Amen.
wil said:
We have one very non interfaith response that has created a plethora of non interfaith responses..
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Where's the non-interfaith in Aussie's statement? He mentioned no particular religion in his post. As far as that goes, I find atheism to be very non-interfaith. (Faith) being the operative word.
Devils' Advocate said:
Yep you're right. I take massive offense. This is the kind of comment that makes me detest christians.
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Nick the Pilot said:
Aussie, I'm afraid I have to agree with DA. Your answer is a perfect example of why I am not a Christian.
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Aussie did not mention Christianity or the Bible in his post. He responded simply as a believer in God, not as a Christian. I for one take massive offense at these personal attacks of someone you don't even know.:mad:
 
He has defined himself by his words and decision to use them.

You take offense to our offense? Atheism and agnosticism, Taoism and Buddhism...beliefs without an afterlife have every right to be in an interfaith discussion.

There are places that such words would receive praise and high fives...this should not be one... I'd prefer the management delete all posts from Aussies on....just so this doesn't remain here for digital eternity...
 
wil said:
You take offense to our offense?
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no... just explaining that the reason you are offended is because you aren't reading what he wrote, rather you are getting upset at the idea that his view is different than yours. Now do I think he would walk up and tell someone that their child died because of their lack of faith, no (I Highly doubt it given his demeanor presented here). But He would know it is a possible reason.

wil said:
Atheism and agnosticism, Taoism and Buddhism...beliefs without an afterlife have every right to be in an interfaith discussion.
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and that does not bar a Christian/Jew/Muslim/Hindu/etc. from weighing in for a balanced opinion. His statement wasn't meant in meanness, I'm pretty sure, but rather a religious "why" to it.

wil said:
There are places that such words would receive praise and high fives...this should not be one... I'd prefer the management delete all posts from Aussies on....just so this doesn't remain here for digital eternity...
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"I don't like what he said... CENSOR HIM!!!" <<< Is this what you are saying?

All in all, He gave you the chance to look into what he was saying might be controversial and basically gave anyone room to disagree. I don't see why such an outrage exists.
 
Just so I'm sure, it is this comment we are discussing?
"The way I see it, how merciful God is having spared an innocent from growing up in a Godless home."
 
He provided room for us to disagree...and we did...

For perspective bjn.....If I proposed it was better for Islamic children to die rather than grow up in a home without Jesus? No issues there?

Or if someone proposed it was better for a child to die than grow up in a home that believes in invisible sky faeries...

It is all, TO ME, patently rude and crude. Not Christian...

And yes, for the sake of discussion and this site... I would censor such hate speech.
 
wil said:
For perspective bjn.....If I proposed it was better for Islamic children to die rather than grow up in a home without Jesus? No issues there?
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Your example is flawed as we believe in Jesus as well, but yes... as it is your POV to say... as long as you aren't offering to make it happen.. From a pure religious standpoint, It would make sense that you would disagree with my view and say that it would be better for a child to not live than to be punished for following a path he had no chance to get away from. I am speaking from a purely religious view. not a personal or "what should be told to someone" POV.

wil said:
It is all, TO ME, patently rude and crude. Not Christian...
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To be fair I find your version of Christianity to be rude and crude... doesn't mean you shouldn't have a voice on the forum.

wil said:
And yes, for the sake of discussion and this site... I would censor such hate speech.
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That's the point... It isn't hate speech. He did not specify any ill will, nor even express his own opinion as to the way things were. He simply explained from a Deep Christian sense, it is a better alternative. Suffer a short life on this earth so that the child can be rewarded with eternal bliss and deviate from the path of hell offered to his parents.
 
Anyone has a right to say whatever they want... You also have the right to the repercussions of your words...

Here on a forum...it may mean responses in kind, a time out, or getting banned from the forum...

In life it may mean a pat on the back, a bloody lip, or worse.

In some countries it may mean a fine, incarceration, or death...

But yes...you always can speak your mind.

Feel free to raise your hand and ask for the repercussions of your speech.
 
BigJoeNobody said:
The Above comments are why it is difficult for Atheists and Believers to have conversations. Before you all go super psycho, let me explain.

The statement Aussie made is only grotesque if you see this world's endeavors as the ultimate goal. If however you see the Afterlife as the ultimate goal, then his statement is beyond reasonable. I've heard this argument several times before I understood it, so I'm not expecting everyone to understand. In Islam (and most forms of Abrahamic faiths) the point of this life is a test. A test to show who is worthy of heaven, and who is not. In Islam the belief is that all children are born pure and good. Servants of Allah without question. They are taught otherwise by parents and community. Now if a merciful God saw this Child could not grow and have a chance of maintaining his path, he would shorten his test to allow for ease of entry into heaven, all the while showing the Atheist parents that they aren't in control of anything. It is up to them to recognize and seek the answers. Now why are your feathers ruffled? Why are you getting defensive? Is it that maybe you know that there might be some merit to his point, or are you just trying to show your own superiority? If he didn't believe his way was best, why would he believe it? Getting mad at someone because they think they are right and you cannot prove them wrong is usually a sign of not knowing exactly what you subliminally might think it correct, but lack the understanding to give it credit. If you truly didn't believe it, then why not shrug it off as a stupid comment?
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Thanks mate. Spot on and nicely put.
Namaste Jesus said:
Aussie did not mention Christianity or the Bible in his post. He responded simply as a believer in God, not as a Christian. I for one take massive offense at these personal attacks of someone you don't even know.:mad:
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No worries mate. I knew the mentality I'd be dealing with when I posted. There'll always be those who hear what has not been said and read what has not been written. That's nothing new. :cool:
 
We lost our son six months into the pregnancy.

Personally, I think God had nothing to do with it, any more than the daughters who were delivered successfully. I don't see a God sitting there ticking off names of those who're gonna make it, and putting crosses next to those who ain't.

I don't think that's what the message of Christ is all about. People like to think of Christ as one who will make the suffering go away. I don't think He is. I don't think that was the point of His mission or message ... but that's me ... God is not a magic wand, and nor is God someone who'll load the dice against the unbeliever.

Having said that, 'popular religion' gives rise to a number of populist comforting notions that have no doctrinal nor metaphysical foundation. It's human nature, it's sentimentalism, and really the author of this piece is swimming against that tide. It's the burden of being a secularist in a Christian community, I suppose. Here in London, most of our friends are secular, so the religiously-oriented comments were a rarity.

Christianity's not alone in that. It's pretty evident that my opinion is that the common and popular notion of 'reincarnation' is the same kind of thing, a popular notion that gives comfort, but actually has no doctrinal or metaphysical support within its respective traditions. I'm sure every tradition has its 'pop dogmas' that are far removed from actual doctrinal declarations, or metaphysical paradigms.

Technically, this renders me a heretic ... but I can live with that.
 
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Aussie - It is highly unlikely that anyone misunderstood your words. You have implied your faith. Why blame other's mentality when your post is very clear?

Okay. I will not kick this dead horse more.
 
Aussie Thoughts said:
There'll always be those who hear what has not been said and read what has not been written
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A more honest way of saying this is that you really don't care if there are others who don't make the same interpretation of what you said. Instead you sit on your high horse above the fray as if your hands were clean because you said the truth as you see it. With no concern or consideration of how hurtful your words could be to someone with another point of view.

That is the actual rub here. I would never spit on someone else's pain because my belief structure was different from theirs. But that is me. You apparently have no problem doing just that. And being proud of it besides. What does that say about you?
 
Aussie Thoughts said:
What are you on about mate? All I did was give an opinion from my perspective. Exactly who have I spit on?
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I think people somehow added "I would tell the Parents" to the beginning... Rather than discussing the implications of their Agnosticism (or "I don't pick either side because I can't prove it 100%", whichever it may be) in a real religious issue of who is going to heaven and who is not. People want to play this "Jesus saved me, so I can be skeptical and be ok because all is forgiven". Which boils down to the issue I have with mainstream Christianity (in the States at least). There is no accountability. You (generic... not directed) do whatever you want, get hammered, sleep with people you are unmarried to all the time, cheating is nothing more than a broken contract, etc. Now you have people all upset that you expressed a belief that is Directly from the Bible. And people call you rude. I wonder what would happen if you expressed a dislike for Homosexuality, self mutilation, etc (not saying you would, just a scenario). People seem to want to be offended by everything, without actually trying to find out what they are upset about.
 
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