Makes No Difference, (Discuss whatever you want).

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Aussie Thoughts

Aussie Thoughts

Just my 2 cents
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Previous theme, (Please Disregard):

Lot of fuss lately over which is right. Creation, evolution or some combination of the two. Problem for me is, what difference does it make? I mean, however it happened, we're here now. What use arguing about it? No one's opinion is going to change anytime soon and that doesn't affect me in the least.

Back at University, History of the Camera was a prerequisite to taking Photography 101. George Eastman's birth date was actually an exam question. Did not affect my ability to take pictures or my career as a photographer one iota. That's how I look at the whole evolution vs creation thing. I'm ok with however our existence came to be. It won't change anything I do or believe in one way or the other. It does however, seem to matter a great deal more to some people.

So I ask those for whom it does matter. What difference does it make and why argue about it?

One request if I may. Let's not argue evolution vs creation here. That's not the purpose of the thread. Thanks.
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Makes No Difference, (discuss whatever you want).
 
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Aussie Thoughts said:
So I ask those for whom it does matter. What difference does it make and why argue about it?
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As far as our day to day lives are concerned, I guess how we came to be matters little. On a spiritual level though, at least for me, it's of prime concern as it sheds light on where we may be headed once our flesh existence ceases to be. As to arguing about it; completely pointless.

For me, there is no conflict between evolution and creation, but many see it as the difference between God and no God. That's why I think passions run so high whenever the subject comes up. It's a rabbit hole all of us have ventured into on the forum at one time or the other and the outcome is always the same. Not good. I've learned to just let sleeping dogs lie where this issue is concerned. I only ventured into the arena this last time in an attempt to break up the monotonous exchange that was going on.
 
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It matters to me as a state of being of our knowledge and consciousness...

When we have this thing called science which has not only looked at origins of the universe and evolution of our species...but also medicine that helps us live, technology that provides heat, air conditioning, air travel, space travel, sent robots to mars and equipment beyond our solar system...

If one chooses a book made by man 2000 years ago by unknown authors vs thousands of scientists creating "miracles" today...denying evolution, global warming, vaccines....

One group is expanding our thought and moving technology and society forward...

The other group has been holding us back...fighting progress every step of the way... From earth centered universe, to reasons to keep people enslaved, to women's right to vote (or speak) civil rights, equal rights, gender rights, and on and on....

These folks who believe in literal translations have held people, families, countries and our world for millennia...

That is the issue of science deniers....to me.
 
If you don't try, you'll never know ...

... half the time, I'm talking to myself.
 
wil said:
thousands of scientists creating "miracles" today...
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The purpose of this thread is not to argue evolution vs creation or to lay blame on anyone, but you do bring up an interesting point. Undeniably science has made great strides by finding clever ways of utilizing what is already here for us to work with. My question is, what difference does it make whether those raw materials, as well as ourselves, were divinely created, the result of an evolutionary process or just random occurrence? That doesn't change our ability to accomplish great things, however it all came to be.
 
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Hi Aussie —
Aussie Thoughts said:
My question is, what difference does it make whether those raw materials, including ourselves, were divinely created, the result of an evolutionary process or just random occurrence? They're here for us to utilize in any case.
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Are you sure you're in the right place?

I would have thought, on an interfaith forum, the question of whether it's theism or deism or pantheism or panentheism or just pure chance is pretty core?

Let me pose your question another way:
Is the universe here for me, or me for the universe?

(Before NJ jumps to your defence, I'm just pointing out what the text says to me)

Then I would say, on this forum the broad consensus, especially among those who profess some order of religious belief, is that I am here for the universe. It's there for me to understand, it's not just there for me to use.

If you are an informed Catholic, for example, and you look round the web, there is a preponderance of nonsense, ignorance, misinformation and black propaganda about the Catholic faith. (That Constantine invented the Church, or wrote the Bible, that the Inquisition was evil, that Catholics burned witches, that mystics operate 'outside the envelope' of their religion, etc, etc.)

So I can simply ignore it, and face it every day — and I do — when the uninformed assume it to be true, because they read it on the internet, and if I say nothing, then I am complicit in its propagation.

I would make the same comment, by the way, about Neuro-Science and Quantum Physics. I've heard a neuroscientist say that they are keeping their heads down because there is so much trendy populist bullshit out there about NS (and QP) all of which builds up like a bow-wave of detritus in the way of getting to what is ...

I'm not gonna change the internet. But I am gonna defend my corner of it.

If what means something to me holds no value for someone else, then OK. I'm not obliging them to do anything. Walk away. But if that person then tells me not to make such a fuss, then I get the impression I am being censored.

And you never know, it might actually matter a great deal.

+++

"First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Socialist.

Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Trade Unionist.

Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Jew.

Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me."
Pastor Martin Niemöller
 
Aussie Thoughts said:
My question is, what difference does it make whether those raw materials, as well as ourselves, were divinely created, the result of an evolutionary process or just random occurrence? That doesn't change our ability to accomplish great things, however it all came to be.
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You are correct...the raw materials and science are there... but again...literal believers of religions cause wars, deter/slow social growth and tech.growth by their denials... We have literalists in politics, using chapter and verse to stagnate social and scientific growth... by ignoring proven science one is making this and other ignorance acceptable.
 
As some have alluded to, whether one believes in creation or evolution (or both) in and of itself may not be terribly relevant to modern life. Those foundations, though, they often lead to a belief system that is very important and current in today's societies. Religious literalists and fundamentalists are a genuine threat to living in the modern world when they flatly reject facts. At the same time, science trends to cut and dried, which as many have lamented here, has led to a rejection of the mythic piece of our relationship to the universe.

Each are damaging in their own way to modern societies.
 
Devils' Advocate said:
As some have alluded to, whether one believes in creation or evolution (or both) in and of itself may not be terribly relevant to modern life. Those foundations, though, they often lead to a belief system that is very important and current in today's societies. Religious literalists and fundamentalists are a genuine threat to living in the modern world when they flatly reject facts. At the same time, science trends to cut and dried, which as many have lamented here, has led to a rejection of the mythic piece of our relationship to the universe.

Each are damaging in their own way to modern societies.
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Yeah, I pretty much agree with everything you say here. I think certain religious positions are indeed very counter productive, both to the faith they represent and to society on the hole. By the same token, the same can be said for those who take too rigid a scientific stance. Too often one fails to give enough consideration to the other. Thing for me is, arguing about it never seems to solve anything. Both sides just dig their feet in, making matters worse. This too is counter productive.
 
Devils' Advocate said:
Religious literalists and fundamentalists are a genuine threat to living in the modern world when they flatly reject facts.
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It seems to me largely an American phenomena. Creationism or anti-evolutionary religious fundamentalism has next to no traction in Europe, as far as I am aware. It may well be a genuine threat to the American domestic situation, but not to anyone else’s. It only becomes one when it gains political impetus in America, because that effects all of us… so yes, from that aspect, it does pose a threat because religion seems tied to right-wing revanchist politics in the US in a way that’s not the case in Europe.

From a personal POV, the problem is that because fundamentalists get such media exposure, the reasonable and rational believer gets tarred with the same brush.

But what is means for ‘us’ is that either we keep quiet and accept the situation, or challenge it, in the hope that others might hear and understand that we’re not all intransigents, stuck in some irrational position with our heads buried in the sand … that a faith position can reasonable, rational, etc.

So really, it does make a difference ...

Fully ready to admit that sometimes the discussion takes me down the rabbit hole, up the wazoo or into the revolving door to the hall of mirrors … and sorry if I’m wasting anyone’s time. but as ever, this is an open forum, no-one is obliged etc., etc.
 
You have a fixation with keeping on topic, you know that? lol. I do not think it is possible. Casual conversation is meant to be fluid. It takes twists and turns, it branches onto other paths. It is just the way humans 'talk'. If you really need to have strict, controlled debates, I am sure there are sites with moderators whose job it is to keep the topic flow narrow.

This ain't that place. Nor do I think it should be. Yes it can be a pain when one is trying to get responses to a specific question; it is also illuminating (to me anyway) who takes the topic in a different direction, and what their reasons are for doing so. A flowing debate teaches me a lot more about the participants. Food for thought.
 
Thomas said:
But what is means for ‘us’ is that either we keep quiet and accept the situation, or challenge it, in the hope that others might hear and understand that we’re not all intransigents, stuck in some irrational position with our heads buried in the sand … that a faith position can reasonable, rational, etc.
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Thomas you sure turned my life around. Knowing that sanity and religion are not mutually exclusive in other parts of the world was a revelation to me. It gives me some measure of hope.
 
Namaste Jesus said:
Nice try trying to keep your thread on topic. Oh well...:rolleyes:
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I don't know mate, 2 posts, possibly 3, did address the topic question as asked. Ain't so bad. More than we usually get sometimes. In a round about way it does sort of prove the point of the thread though. I mean, you can pose a question, even use bold ink to highlight what not to discuss, but that won't stop some people from doing it anyway or answering their own question rather than yours. You can even include a polite reminder in your reply to theirs. It just doesn't make any difference. Way folks are. That was the point of the thread though. Some things we discuss, argue and quibble about make no difference one way or the other.

I decided to change the theme of this thread from "What Difference Does it Make" to "Makes No Difference", (discuss whatever you want). Let's see if the reverse happens. Instead of going off topic, perhaps human nature will prevail and it'll drifts back on.;)
 
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