Do you know the truth about hell?

My father (rip) used to say that Purgatory (to him) was living and/or coping with human longings/desires and that Hell would surely be having human longings/desires without a body nor a means for fulfillment or realization...
 
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RJM Corbet said:
Purgatory could be for instance the terrible regret of an alcoholic/drug addict mother, now reformed, but who can never repair the brain damaged child she gave birth to?

It's just an example. You can say: 'I' didn't know or understand what I was doing at the time' and know that God forgives you ... but it can't undo the damage caused to the innocent one you love most?
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Should be the terrible regret of the Anti Abortionist that blocked her from the clinic, or shamed her into bringing an unwanted child into being.
 
Still, God loves the children of pain
 
Courage,
re: "...a soul is referred to as immortal."



Just so it's understood that scripture never refers to it as such.
 
Eternity isn't 'forever'. Eternity is 'outside of time' and space ...?
 
Maranguape said:
By the word "Truth" I mean a statement that has been verified by eyewitnesses, or the result of logical approval. If you want to see hell aka Sheol, you can pay a visit to a cemetery and see what I am talking about. You don't even need a map as it is available to all.
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Is it possible for eyewitnesses to be mistaken? Or for eyewitnesses to conspire to give false testimony? "Logical Approval" can mean many things, few of which are actually based in logic.

I am well aware of the various terms used in both the Jewish and Christian Bibles that are translated into English as "hell." You failed to mention the burn pit in Gehenna. And then there's Tartaros.
 
wil said:
...bringing an unwanted child into being.
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There is no such thing as an unwanted child. There are potential parents all over that would willingly adopt if given the opportunity...if only the various governments of the world didn't turn the entire process into such a daunting mess. It is the children caught up in the morass of government red tape that end up appearing to be "unwanted." Too much political hay to be made keeping kids in such a state of existence.
 
RJM Corbet said:
Eternity isn't 'forever'. Eternity is 'outside of time' and space ...?
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With due respect, I think this is semantics. Since we are locked within time and space, we can only speculate what might or might not exist outside of time and space. There may well be no "outside" to time and space. Time and space may be all there is to reality, and that would include every possible existence.
 
juantoo3 said:
There is no such thing as an unwanted child. There are potential parents all over that would willingly adopt if given the opportunity...if only the various governments of the world didn't turn the entire process into such a daunting mess. It is the children caught up in the morass of government red tape that end up appearing to be "unwanted." Too much political hay to be made keeping kids in such a state of existence.
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I wish that were correct....there are thousands of kids stuck in an abusive foster care system and waiting for adoption....but we like perfect white babies...
 
Maranguape said:
Yes, but not the Christian hell. The hell from the Tanach which is called Sheol aka the grave. Also from this hell, once gone, no one will ever return. (II Samuel 12:23; Psalm 49:12, 20; Isaiah 26:14; Job 7:9; etc, etc...)
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No, that's not even what the Jewish origin is.

The following is for the Jewish historian living around/after Jesus' time.

By Flavius Josephus the Pharisee.

2. In this region there is a certain place set apart, as a lake of unquenchable fire, whereinto we suppose no one hath hitherto been cast; but it is prepared for a day afore-determined by God, in which one righteous sentence shall deservedly be passed upon all men; when the unjust, and those that have been disobedient to God, and have given honor to such idols as have been the vain operations of the hands of men as to God himself, shall be adjudged to this everlasting punishment, as having been the causes of defilement; while the just shall obtain an incorruptible and never-fading kingdom. These are now indeed confined in Hades, but not in the same place wherein the unjust are confined.

Hades is the Greek word for sheol.
 
juantoo3 said:
OK, I'll bite.

For the sake of discussion, what precisely do you mean by the word "truth?" Before I ask about the "truth" about "hell," I first must understand what it is you are attempting to convey.

I would add here, for the sake of discussion, that when I say the word "truth," I mean factual reality, reproducible or at least demonstrable. I can show you. So if "hell" is "truly" a "place" as you claim, you should be able to show me on a map.

Can you show me hell? Have you been there?
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Since when black holes are demonstratable and evidenced to humans in stone age? Do you mean that the truth of the existence of black holes doesn't exist in stone age?

Truth can be independent of human knowledge. It boils down to how humans reach that truth. Hell (if exists) to today's humans makes no difference to black hole relative to humans in stone age.

So the question is rather, if hell exists how can you be able to reach this truth. More critically, how can you reach it on time. This latter on is critical because unlike black holes, the truth of hell concerns your own dead or alive.

Now for the sake of argument, we assume that hell truly exists.

If you want it to be evidenced, as if the stone age humans insist on seeing black holes before belief, then you leave yourself with the only possibility to get to this truth by seeing it yourself. That's the time when you enter it.

A more wise way to approach this truth is by examining the accounts of witnessing. Among the 100% humans who know for a fact that black holes exist, 99.99% of them don't have the evidence. They rely on trusting the scientists to get to this truth. It is so because the accounts of witnessing from our scientists are considered reliable. They are so reliable that we don't bother to even examine the evidence of black holes ourselves. We swallow with faith from the scientists that black holes exist for a fact.

That said, NT is based off those eye-witnesses who are willing to martyr themselves to stand witnesses for Jesus Christ. 10 out of the 12 direct disciples of Jesus were killed in conveying the truth of Jesus Christ.

So it is a scenario when the only way for you to get to a truth on time is to believing in accounts of human witnessing, and this truth concerns your own dead or alive, and there are said eye-witnesses sacrificed their own lives in order for the message to spread, what would you say?

Again and for the sake of argument, if Jesus is the truth, do you have a better way for this truth to convey?
 
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Ok, but apart from how our own lives can 'be hell' -- HELL in this spiritual sense refers to something that happens to the soul after death of the physical body?

The whole discussion assumes the survival of the soul after death of the body.

So as the body is a natural vehicle, that exists in nature, the soul continues to exist outside of and beyond nature. ie: outside of space/time -- the physical dimension limited by the speed of light -- in a spiritual 'condition' where the concept of time and space can't mean anything?
 
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Everything we experience is limited by nature and the ability of our natural senses to perceive it, and of our natural minds to process what we perceive.

So what does an eternal state really mean? Spiritual concepts of existence outside of nature are given to us in parables/symbols, because we can't have words for them, in the same way mathematics uses symbols.

Perhaps the spiritual concept of Hell is a symbol, more than a physical place of divine punishment for all eternity?
 
Courage said:
Since when black holes are demonstratable and evidenced to humans in stone age? Do you mean that the truth of the existence of black holes doesn't exist in stone age?

Truth can be independent of human knowledge. It boils down to how humans reach that truth. Hell (if exists) to today's humans makes no difference to black hole relative to humans in stone age.
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Ah! So if I can't prove a negative, it must exist because you say so? Do we dare venture into Flying Spaghetti Monsters and Invisible Pink Unicorns?

You do not demonstrate that things exist outside of human understanding, rather, you demonstrate human understanding often falls short in comprehending reality. I have noted this on multiple occasions here, most often in the evolution arguments.

Black holes were "only" theory not so long ago, and Einstein wasn't even comfortable with the implications. An astronomer came along (Hubble? or someone else, I don't recall offhand) that was able to demonstrate ("find") what Einstein's theory suggested may exist, thereby proving his theory. It had already been proven with the demonstration of gravity bending light, but having another piece of the puzzle shown was icing on the cake. But this is all comparatively recent, and the average person on the street could give a darn, and wouldn't comprehend if you tried to explain...

And even after all of that, "we" (mostly Einstein) still can't explain *what* gravity is! Gravity existed in the stone age, gravity exists now. Can you explain gravity? Tell me please...what *exactly* is gravity? Is it a wave? Is it a particle? Does every subatomic piece of matter suck?

Again and for the sake of argument, if Jesus is the truth, do you have a better way for this truth to convey?
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Ah, the crux of the matter.

Seems to me the truth conveyed by Jesus is conveyed by all of the major world faiths. The truth conveyed by Jesus consists of "do unto others as you would have done unto yourself" and "love G-d with all your heart, mind, soul and strength." Are these truths not taught in many other faiths as well? So, "better way" is a term relative to where one was born, I would say. Particularly since G-d made all of humanity, and it was VERY good.
 
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wil said:
I wish that were correct....there are thousands of kids stuck in an abusive foster care system and waiting for adoption....but we like perfect white babies...
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Then why do so many American adoptive parents have to go to China or Russia to find children to adopt? Someplace where the red tape is less onerous. Child Protective Services in most states is such a tyrannical oligarchy to try to deal with, the frustration and stone walling become insurmountable obstacles. Entrenched bureaucracy, and I can't help but think that like so much of politics there is something (money? political hay?) to explain why the system remains the way it is.
 
There are 107,918 foster children eligible for and waiting to be adopted. In 2014, 50,644 foster kids were adopted — a number that has stayed roughly consistent for the past five years. The average age of a waiting child is 7.7 years old and 29% of them will spend at least three years in foster care.Dec 8, 2015
 
I'm not disagreeing with you, I am saying the system is broken and could use an overhaul. There are plenty of adoptive parents seeking children, and why we make it so difficult is beyond my understanding.
 
juantoo3 said:
Then why do so many American adoptive parents have to go to China or Russia to find children to adopt? Someplace where the red tape is less onerous. Child Protective Services in most states is such a tyrannical oligarchy to try to deal with, the frustration and stone walling become insurmountable obstacles. Entrenched bureaucracy, and I can't help but think that like so much of politics there is something (money? political hay?) to explain why the system remains the way it is.
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Is the odds of a child entering an abusive home so low, or the nature of the abuse so light, that it should be secondary?
I do disagree with you and I'm a much bigger fan of red tape than you, but I'm not making light of you statements. I'm honestly really surprised!
 
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