A Cup Of Tea
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Is the world the best it's ever been ... and why?
- Thread starter Thomas
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the difference between climate and weather.... the air and seas are warming... bull crap...it snowed in Florida.
A Cup Of Tea
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It's been really hard to follow your reasoning this thread, I'm considering not asking what you mean by that...
The problem with sweeping generalisations is the same can be made in return:
It still is. (Example: Ethnic cleansing in Europe and Africa during the 50 years, the most recent being in Myanmar.)
Human trafficking — the modern term for slavery — is the fastest growing crime globally.
More recent conflicts have seen the emergence of Corporate rather than National interests, so have moved away from 'stealing land', which leaves you with an obligation to rebuild, to simply stripping the land of its resources, re-channeling those resources to serve domestic demand and/or restructuring the economy to match Corporate interests (the contemporary equivalent of forcing everyone into your religion).
It is an improvement, no-one's disputing that, it's what you attribute the improvement to is disputed, and so far you haven't supplied any evidence to back up that claim.
Most, if not all the improvements you list, come about not through an evolutionary shift in society, but rather through protest, often beginning with a single individual. You cite the Geneva Convention. It, and the International Red Cross, was started by one man, Henry Dunant, a Swiss businessman who, travelling in Italy, happened to be in the town of Solferino on the evening of 24 June 1859, where he witnessed a battle that left about 40,000 dead and dying on the field with no-one looking after them and no infrastructure to manage the battlefield. He was horrified, and set about to clean the place up, then began a campaign.
The abolition of slavery in Europe, the civil rights movement, women's rights, LGBT rights, all of these have been won in the face of passive if not active resistance, rather than an emerging empathy or egalitarianism.
I'd also add that a contributing factor that has accelerated this process is the dissemination of information, first via print, and then successively though other media. This arouses public awareness and comment unimaginable before.
So the prime mover for me is sociological pressures.
Wow, have you conceded that we are in the most peaceful least violent times? That human rights are improving?
Today we celebrate/acknowledge the efforts of Dr King on this side of the pond....
" . . . there is something unfolding in the universe, whether one speaks of it as an unconscious process, or whether one speaks of it as some unmoved mover, or whether someone speaks of it as a personal God. There is something in the universe that unfolds for justice."
Martin Luther King, Jr.
While I don't really care what is causing the improvement, if you are gonna try to attribute it to G!d, it sure puts the seven days in question (for those who can't read the rest of my brain.... It also proves G!d is make, a woman would not have taken so long to straighten this out)
Today we celebrate/acknowledge the efforts of Dr King on this side of the pond....
" . . . there is something unfolding in the universe, whether one speaks of it as an unconscious process, or whether one speaks of it as some unmoved mover, or whether someone speaks of it as a personal God. There is something in the universe that unfolds for justice."
Martin Luther King, Jr.
While I don't really care what is causing the improvement, if you are gonna try to attribute it to G!d, it sure puts the seven days in question (for those who can't read the rest of my brain.... It also proves G!d is make, a woman would not have taken so long to straighten this out)
No. I believe we're heading towards the next round ... I also believe it's quite possible to find other '50 year periods' where some have enjoyed peace and prosperity. There's nothing particularly remarkable about this one.
That's a subjective statement only made by white, middle class, etc., etc. For the sake of those who are not enjoying any such benefits, I do not.
It's taken millennia to get this far. If you think anything 'significant' has happened in the last 50 years, please spell it out.
Ah, now you are changing your tune.
Read my posts. I'm certainly not attributing change to anything other than natural sociological processes, I was questioning your attribution towards some 'higher power' that steers us to making the right decision even when it appears wrong, steering us towards the good, to the 'oneness-of-everything' ideal...
LOL, I can see how you would come to that conclusion
I rather think the metaphysics of the Hexameron is well above that order of question and literal pejorative interpretation ...
Interesting results from the Pew Research Center.
Nearly nine out of 10 Vietnamese people think life is better – but only one in 10 Venezuelans. About two-thirds of Germans and Swedes say yes, but fewer than half of Brits and only a third of Americans agree. Worldwide, an unhealthy majority – 57 per cent – think quality of life has deteriorated or stagnated.
Why, if life has been transformed by science, technology and medicine since 1967? In the words of Bill Clinton, it’s the economy, stupid.
The single biggest influence that Pew identified was respondents’ sense of their own nation’s economic performance. In South Korea, India, Vietnam, Indonesia and Turkey, which have enjoyed big economic gains, solid majorities say that life is better. But when life is a struggle, long and gradual improvements in living standards are easy to forget. (Commentary from New Scientist)
Added to the above, from a UK perspective, with the massive increase of homelessness, the growing number of the populations living below the UK poverty line, the crisis in health care and housing, the increasing cost of education, the reversal of social mobility, many see that despite the benefits of science, especially in the areas of medicine and technology, quality of life is actually moving in the other direction.
And not only in the UK. A crisis is playing out in the US
Five years ago, a report showed people in the US in worse health and dying younger than those in other rich nations. In December 2017, life expectancy in the country declined for a second year in succession.
The original report documented a large and growing US "health disadvantage". Widespread evidence showed that compared with people in other wealthy democracies, people in the US under the age of 75 – men and women, rich and poor, of all races and ethnicities – die younger and experience more injuries and illnesses.
Public policies and poor living conditions all play a part.
The US is also in the midst of one of the worst drug epidemics in the nation’s history. It is a public health crisis that has been unfolding over two decades but only recently garnered urgent national attention. Drug overdoses, often from opioid use, now surpass road accidents as the leading cause of death from injury (as opposed to disease), for people in the US aged 25 to 64. More than 175 people die every day as a result of overdoses, the equivalent of two full 747 jumbo jets crashing every week somewhere in the country.
When the problem was largely in the black population, it was considered a 'drug problem' and trated as such. Now it has spread to the poor white community, it has mutated into a 'health problem' and there are increasing demands for a new and co-ordinated approach.
Along with deaths attributable to alcohol and suicide, the overdoses have been branded "deaths of despair". Compared with other rich nations, the US also continues to experience much higher rates of infant mortality and gun deaths.
Nearly nine out of 10 Vietnamese people think life is better – but only one in 10 Venezuelans. About two-thirds of Germans and Swedes say yes, but fewer than half of Brits and only a third of Americans agree. Worldwide, an unhealthy majority – 57 per cent – think quality of life has deteriorated or stagnated.
Why, if life has been transformed by science, technology and medicine since 1967? In the words of Bill Clinton, it’s the economy, stupid.
The single biggest influence that Pew identified was respondents’ sense of their own nation’s economic performance. In South Korea, India, Vietnam, Indonesia and Turkey, which have enjoyed big economic gains, solid majorities say that life is better. But when life is a struggle, long and gradual improvements in living standards are easy to forget. (Commentary from New Scientist)
Added to the above, from a UK perspective, with the massive increase of homelessness, the growing number of the populations living below the UK poverty line, the crisis in health care and housing, the increasing cost of education, the reversal of social mobility, many see that despite the benefits of science, especially in the areas of medicine and technology, quality of life is actually moving in the other direction.
And not only in the UK. A crisis is playing out in the US
Five years ago, a report showed people in the US in worse health and dying younger than those in other rich nations. In December 2017, life expectancy in the country declined for a second year in succession.
The original report documented a large and growing US "health disadvantage". Widespread evidence showed that compared with people in other wealthy democracies, people in the US under the age of 75 – men and women, rich and poor, of all races and ethnicities – die younger and experience more injuries and illnesses.
Public policies and poor living conditions all play a part.
The US is also in the midst of one of the worst drug epidemics in the nation’s history. It is a public health crisis that has been unfolding over two decades but only recently garnered urgent national attention. Drug overdoses, often from opioid use, now surpass road accidents as the leading cause of death from injury (as opposed to disease), for people in the US aged 25 to 64. More than 175 people die every day as a result of overdoses, the equivalent of two full 747 jumbo jets crashing every week somewhere in the country.
When the problem was largely in the black population, it was considered a 'drug problem' and trated as such. Now it has spread to the poor white community, it has mutated into a 'health problem' and there are increasing demands for a new and co-ordinated approach.
Along with deaths attributable to alcohol and suicide, the overdoses have been branded "deaths of despair". Compared with other rich nations, the US also continues to experience much higher rates of infant mortality and gun deaths.
Ahanu
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Welcome back, Thomas!
Just some quick thoughts . . . on portions of the PRC article that interested me the most . . .
The PRC notes the majority of people in Japan and Canada believe life has improved . . . despite the fact Japan still has a serious problem with their working poor and Canada's neglected Native American communities. No doubt the Japanese only have to look back a little over fifty years to reflect on Hiroshima and Nagasaki. With nuclear war in their rear-view mirror, I am sure things appear better for them now. May the hibakusha eternally remind us that nuclear war is not the answer and that such weapons should be destroyed.
To partially answer your big question with a wild guess, the education system, remaining stuck in the industrial age, lags behind an information economy, so many people feel their "quality of life has deteriorated or stagnated" because they are getting left behind in the 21st century. I ventured into this way of thinking after reading the following words from the PRC: "In more than half the countries polled, people with more education say that, for people like them, life is better than it was a half-century ago. The educational divide on whether life is better is greatest in Poland and Peru (both 19 percentage points). But it is also apparent in many European and Asian nations, as well as the U.S."
You say there is an increase in cost to education. Okay. The average cost of an education for a college student in America was around $10,000 in 2008. That's around $300,000 per classroom. Where does that money go? Things not directly related to your education. After all, you gotta keep that football field looking nice, pay your security guards, and pay your administrators. Technology cuts through these unnecessary expenses. It opens new doors through affordable online education, such as edx.org, coursera.org, or Khan Academy. Why pay for a high tuition at a brick and mortar educational institution that needs to maintain its high maintenance costs? Reliance on the old educational model that our older generation trusted for social mobility is putting our young people in debt. As of 2016 according to PRC, more than 4 billion people still do not have internet access. Let's keep in mind there are many populated areas where technology still isn't available for society. "The future is here," someone once famously said, "but it is not evenly distributed."
Bill argues technology is making the world a better place in TIME.
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Hi Ahanu —
Up to a few years ago, University education was free for secondary school leavers. Now there is a fee, many thousands of pounds per year, and no certainty of employment afterwards, whereas there will definitely be a significant debt incurred across the three years or so of a university degree. So many are turning away from university — my daughter being one of them, got a degree but found the idea of an MA prohibitively expensive.
My big sister went to uni and had grants to subsidise her education because my parents could not afford her upkeep.
Two of my daughters went to uni and we subsidised them, they taking jobs to pay their way.
Now we would have to pay the education fees, as well as subsidise their income.
it's a downward arc.
Moreso when the average wage will not support the cost of an average mortgage repayment, let alone an average wage burdened with a university debt. The result is a new demographic of 30+ year-old 'children' living at home with no hope of a house purchase and little hope of home rental, with the present housing shortage as it is. ...
(cf www.what3words.com)
This is particular to the UK.
Up to a few years ago, University education was free for secondary school leavers. Now there is a fee, many thousands of pounds per year, and no certainty of employment afterwards, whereas there will definitely be a significant debt incurred across the three years or so of a university degree. So many are turning away from university — my daughter being one of them, got a degree but found the idea of an MA prohibitively expensive.
My big sister went to uni and had grants to subsidise her education because my parents could not afford her upkeep.
Two of my daughters went to uni and we subsidised them, they taking jobs to pay their way.
Now we would have to pay the education fees, as well as subsidise their income.
it's a downward arc.
Moreso when the average wage will not support the cost of an average mortgage repayment, let alone an average wage burdened with a university debt. The result is a new demographic of 30+ year-old 'children' living at home with no hope of a house purchase and little hope of home rental, with the present housing shortage as it is. ...
Indeed. It's worth realising that around 75 percent of the world (135 countries) suffers from inadequate addressing systems. This means that around four billion people are 'invisible', unable to get deliveries, receive aid, report disease or exercise many of their rights as citizens because they simply have no way to communicate where they live!
(cf www.what3words.com)
To me it is quite simple... we romanticize the past... Movies show the Orient Express as a luxurious train ride...and it was for its time....but still no heat in the winter, no AC in the summer and food was iffy at best and you crapped in a chamber pot. Folks think the of times past as simple...today we work 8 hours a day.... at one time we worked 8 hours a day for enough to have 20 minutes of oil light at night. Women want to go back to the past and as soon as they get a splinter in their but from the outhouse and find there is no such thing as toilet paper, tampons or sliced bread yet... they'll be begging for 2017.
I still attest...while we have a long way to go...we are sooo far ahead of where we were.
I still attest...while we have a long way to go...we are sooo far ahead of where we were.
I rather think someone's romanticising the present?
But seriously, there is a growing scientific consensus that we're reaching a tipping point, and unless we change our ways pretty radically pretty quick, we're facing catastrophic eventualities ... Bearing in mind the US is one of the major players in the game, and the current administration is taking on a very anti-scientific bias, then this might well exacerbate the problem.
So I suppose the message is enjoy it while you can, because tomorrow we'll be the ones held to account.
Anti Science? for his bible thumping anti science supporters? Tell me it ain't so!
Yeah...we got idiots in charge... of he house, senate and Presidency....but thankfully it our oligarchy aint a dictatorship yet and we have other chances to vote.
But no...I rely on facts and science for my conjecture...
Again the difference between climate and weather. Hiccups happen in any trend.... is this a hiccup in an inhumane world for the past half century...or are todays idiots a hiccup in an improving more caring world? Time will tell.
But yes, while I fight pipelines and oil and support solar and wind and other alternatives....we still have many leaks in the program...
Again....I don't say or imply everything is perfect or even rosy....just that they are better than our ancestors had...
Yeah...we got idiots in charge... of he house, senate and Presidency....but thankfully it our oligarchy aint a dictatorship yet and we have other chances to vote.
But no...I rely on facts and science for my conjecture...
Again the difference between climate and weather. Hiccups happen in any trend.... is this a hiccup in an inhumane world for the past half century...or are todays idiots a hiccup in an improving more caring world? Time will tell.
But yes, while I fight pipelines and oil and support solar and wind and other alternatives....we still have many leaks in the program...
Again....I don't say or imply everything is perfect or even rosy....just that they are better than our ancestors had...
No interest in the topic really, just wondering why it's being discussed in this category? Seems better suited for Politics and Society.
Because it is about 'belief'?
Given the category's title and description, I took that to mean spiritual beliefs as apposed to world view.
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hmmmm....i wonder if they are reverse proportions....as the world becomes less spiritual/religious it becomes more peaceful/humane? Could very well be based on the story of Cain and Abel, or Noah....is that our why?
Interesting things to contemplate now that you bring them up!!
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/jan/06/peace-on-earth-atheism
https://www.psychologytoday.com/blo...lar-societies-fare-better-religious-societies
http://www.latimes.com/opinion/op-ed/la-oe-1101-zuckerman-violence-secularism-20151101-story.html
https://www.quora.com/The-least-religious-countries-are-the-most-peaceful-ones-Is-it-true
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/jan/06/peace-on-earth-atheism
https://www.psychologytoday.com/blo...lar-societies-fare-better-religious-societies
http://www.latimes.com/opinion/op-ed/la-oe-1101-zuckerman-violence-secularism-20151101-story.html
https://www.quora.com/The-least-religious-countries-are-the-most-peaceful-ones-Is-it-true
Ok, good. That does at least steer the topic more towards the category it's in. That was pretty much what John Lennon was trying to tell us with, "Imagine" that is, what if there were nothing to fight about religious or otherwise. No hell below us above us only sky....
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The funny thing about the Lennon song... is who is imagining? We have to imagine something someone else imagined doesn't exist...
Imagine the unprovable isn't provable? Imagine the unbelievable, is isn't believable?
Yes the fighting of facts and data vs belief will continue.
Imagine the unprovable isn't provable? Imagine the unbelievable, is isn't believable?
Yes the fighting of facts and data vs belief will continue.
Imagine
John Lennon
Imagine there's no heaven
It's easy if you try
No hell below us
Above us only sky
Imagine all the people living for today
Imagine there's no countries
It isn't hard to do
Nothing to kill or die for
And no religion too
Imagine all the people living life in peace, you
You may say I'm a dreamer
But I'm not the only one
I hope some day you'll join us
And the world will be as one
Imagine no possessions
I wonder if you can
No need for greed or hunger
A brotherhood of man
Imagine all the people sharing all the world, you
You may say I'm a dreamer
But I'm not the only one
I hope some day you'll join us
And the world will be as one
John Lennon was simply asking us to imagine a world without religious, political or economic division and strife. The premise being, in the absence of these things, there would be nothing more to fight about and we'd all share and get along.John Lennon
Imagine there's no heaven
It's easy if you try
No hell below us
Above us only sky
Imagine all the people living for today
Imagine there's no countries
It isn't hard to do
Nothing to kill or die for
And no religion too
Imagine all the people living life in peace, you
You may say I'm a dreamer
But I'm not the only one
I hope some day you'll join us
And the world will be as one
Imagine no possessions
I wonder if you can
No need for greed or hunger
A brotherhood of man
Imagine all the people sharing all the world, you
You may say I'm a dreamer
But I'm not the only one
I hope some day you'll join us
And the world will be as one
Don't know. John does professes to being but a dreamer though. Going so far as to invite others to dream along. Rest in Peace my friend...
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