Is the world the best it's ever been ... and why?

Ok I can see that, but was that reflected in the study? In other words, how many people were atheist going in and became religious after the fact? Which raises another question, of those inmates identifying with a particular religion, how many are doing so for non-religious reasons?
 
Who knows. We all know there is a wide variety in every religion...from those social religous, who go for the camaraderie...those who were born into a family who claimed religion but never participated either in a congregation or anything at home beyond 'bless you' for sneezing. As with anything the interpretation cannot be better than the data available.

But, since we find similar data outside of prison...

https://www.psychologytoday.com/blo...lar-societies-fare-better-religious-societies
 
Namaste Jesus said:
I do know of a few who turned to Islam while in prison, but I'm not sure the reason behind it or what their position was prior.
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It might well be an active process of proselytzing, as much, if not more, to do with sociopolitical aims than religious ones... just a thought ... along the lines of why ISIS is so successful in recruiting. It appeals to the disaffected. You can't put it down to the spiritual appeal of Islam.
 
wil said:
... and religious folks ignoring religious tenets is actually normal...
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Meanwhile atheist folks observing moral values is actually normal? :D Strikes me as a bit of 'them and us' stereotyping going on.

We can find plenty of religious propaganda saying how religious folks are morally superior, and plenty of secular propaganda saying how atheist folks are morally superior. Depends what we look for and what we want to believe.

I don't believe any of it. I think it's a false argument from the get-go. People are people.
 
Thomas said:
Nah, it's the application of the No true Scotsman fallacy.
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How so? It is interesting but doesn't seem to apply.

It isn't apparent that you read either article or just picking apart my short description.
Thomas said:
It might well be an active process of proselytzing, as much, if not more, to do with sociopolitical aims than religious ones... just a thought ... along the lines of why ISIS is so successful in recruiting. It appeals to the disaffected. You can't put it down to the spiritual appeal of Islam.
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definitely why interpretation is hard.
 
wil said:
It isn't apparent that you read either article or just picking apart my short description.
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Which articles?

I read 'Are religious people more moral?' and agreed with much of what was said about the universality of moral values. But nothing there argues that atheists are more moral. And the comments on religion I found not at all convincing:

But the reason religion has been so successful in the course of human history is precisely its ability to capitalize on those moral intuitions.
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Hmmm ... moving onto uncertain ground here.

According to psychologist Ara Norenzayan, belief in morally invested gods developed as a solution to the problem of large-scale cooperation.
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Then why did not the Egyptians, Greeks and Romans, with significant empires, arrive at this solution? Early Judaism, Buddhism, Christianity were small affairs, yet developed a moral outlook that remained essentially unchanged — so the moral values did not develop as the author suggests?

Religion provided an answer by introducing beliefs about all-knowing, all-powerful gods who punish moral transgressions.
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Secular authorities are no less inclined to 'threaten' according to the values of the day: Soviet purges, Mao's revolution, Pol Pot ...

As for the 'Secular Societies' article — what a surprise that centres of corporate self-interest fare better than others ... or that secular societies (The First World) fare better than religious societies (Third World) ... Jeez ... nothing to do with the First World robbing the Third World blind ...

Consider, for instance, the latest special report just put out by the Organization for Economic Co-operation and Development ... According to this multivariate analysis which takes into account a plethora of indicators of societal well-being, those states in America with the worst quality of life tend to be among the most God-loving/most religious (such as Mississippi and Alabama), while those states with the best quality of life tend to among the least God-loving/least religious (such as Vermont and New Hampshire).
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OK. It's also noted that the population of Vermont and New Hampshire is around 94% non-Hispanic white, with black and Hispanic in single figures, while in Mississippi and Alabama, the black and Hispanic population is significantly higher ... can we also conclude that black and Hispanic people are far more prone to immorality ... :rolleyes:
 
wil said:
it has been the common conclusion for the past centuries.
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Exactly!

Same old, same old ... names change but 'the song remains the same' ...
men are superior to women,
northerners are better than southerners,
easterners are better than westerners,
uppers are better than downers :)confused:)
whites are better than blacks,
Christians are better than Jews,
atheists are better than religious ...
etc., etc.
 
Thomas said:
uppers are better than downers
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positivity is my drug of choice!

But yes, keeping the masses in check by bread and circus and divide and conquer has always been the goal of the elite, the power brokers....keep them fighting and they won't look up to see who is pulling the strings... keep them happy or fearful in the fields....alternate and both work...
 
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