Is This Idolatry

I understand. There are numerous passages in the Bible about worshipping a piece of wood or stone. So I'm just wondering if anyone ever really did that? Food offered to idols would be offered to the spirit or god being represented by the idol.
That seems the most likely ... whether your worshipper could explain that adequately is another matter, but I tend to think the worship of an object was not because it's an object per se. Remember the Bible has a very low opinion of other religion, it's hardly likely to present them in a good light.
 
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. If the carved stone represents something more .... Doesn't that make it an idol?
I'd say a symbol, the object becomes an idol when you lose touch with what it signifies ... ?
 
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Today is the Catholic feast of Corpus Christi when the host containing the 'real presence' of Christ is paraded in formal procession from the Abbey with the choir singing and all the priests in their splendid robes.
I spoke to a parish priest who had an 'outbreak' of the congregation throwing themselves on the floor at Benediction.

"Why are you doing that?" He asked. "Because the Real Presence of Christ is here!" "But this is a church, He's always here, even when it's empty!" The word got round, the practice stopped ...

In the Philippines, I believe some devout Christians have themselves crucified on Good Friday? In God's name, why??? The whole point is that He died so we might live. This is neither faith nor devotion, it's hysteria ...
 
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I have mentioned this before, but I think it relevant.

Some of the greatest mystical tracts were written in pre-reformation times (The Cloud of Unknowing). Talking to a theologian, I asked him what effect the 'stripping of the altars' — the removal of all art and symbolic regalia from churches by the Reformers — had on popular piety. His reply was the re-appearance of witchcraft. Not so much in witches and covens, but in 'pagan' symbols.

It's a fact that 'witchcraft' seems to spike, and was more vigorously pursued, in Reformation countries.

Simply, people need their symbols. They need their supports because most of us are not based entirely in the intellect and draw sufficient sustenance from intellectual abstractions.

A corollary to this is the idea that the illiterate peasant and non-latin speaking, non-Bible treading lay community was ignorant of their religion. It's not true, it's Protestant propaganda.

The simple faithful had the Mass with its readings through the Liturgical cycle. They had evensong and saints days, had Psalters, had mystery plays, mummers, processions, they had guilds and confraternities, they had songs and hymns for everyday life. They had icons, had architecture, had art and artefacts, Stations of the Cross, the Mysteries of the Rosary ... dare I say it, the illiterate peasant of the Middle ages often had a closer sense of his or her religion than his/her twenty-first century counterpart.
 
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I'd say a symbol, the object becomes an idol when you lose touch with what it signifies ... ?
NSW a symbol is a plus sign... +. When you pray to it, when you rub it between your fingers.hanging around your neck, when it upsets you when you can't find it, that is when you have made a statue or coin, or necklace an idol.
 
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NSW a symbol is a plus sign... +. When you pray to it, when you rub it between your fingers.hanging around your neck, when it upsets you when you can't find it, that is when you have made a statue or coin, or necklace an idol.
Yes
linus.jpg


Oh, I like that. I'm going to use it as my avatar ...
 
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I spoke to a parish priest who had an 'outbreak' of the congregation throwing themselves on the floor at Benediction ...

Yup. Benediction. I love the service. But it's easy to understand how Luther could have a problem with it, lol ...
 
There is a very specific concept of the 'symbol' (as opposed to a sign) in the esoteric domain ...
 
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There is a very specific concept of the 'symbol' (as opposed to a sign) in the esoteric domain ...
Exactly. Like mathematics or music. Words can't get there. The cross. The horus and the nexus. The tree ... Adam fulfilled. Lamb of God. Mystery. Symbols.

I Ching, Kaballah, tarot ...
 
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Well it goes back a long way, but basically 'a sign' points and says something is over there.

In a symbol, the thing symbolised is actually present (in essence) in and through the symbol (eikon, mandala, etc). The word derives from the Greek 'to put together'.
 
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Well it goes back a long way, but basically 'a sign' points and says something is over there.

In a symbol, the thing symbolised is actually present (in essence) in and through the symbol (eikon, mandala, etc). The word derives from the Greek 'to put together'.
Thank you.
 
Of course Catholicism too has old-school hardliner fundamentalists. But ... it's the shell of the nut ...
 
What is a Myth versus what is not a Myth?

A culture's collective mythology helps convey belonging, shared and religious experiences, behavioral models, and moral and practical lessons.

The study of myth began in ancient history. Rival classes of the Greek myths by Euhemerus, Plato and Sallustius were developed by the Neoplatonists and later revived by Renaissance mythographers. The nineteenth-century comparative mythology reinterpreted myth as a primitive and failed counterpart of science (Tylor), a "disease of language" (Müller), or a misinterpretation of magical ritual(Frazer).

Recent approaches often view myths as manifestations of psychological, cultural, or societal truths, rather than as inaccurate historical accounts.

One theory claims that myths are distorted accounts of historical events.[47][48] According to this theory, storytellers repeatedly elaborate upon historical accounts until the figures in those accounts gain the status of gods.

The word mythología [μυθολογία] appears in Plato, but was used as a general term for "fiction" or "story-telling" of any kind

From its earliest use in reference to a collection of traditional stories or beliefs,[14] mythology implied the falsehood of the stories being described. It came to be applied by analogy with similar bodies of traditional stories among other polytheistic cultures around the world.[9] The Greek loanword mythos[16] (pl. mythoi) and Latinatemythus[18] (pl. mythi) both appeared in English before the first example of myth in 1830.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mythology


2.
The worship of Santa Muerte also attracts those who are not inclined to seek the traditional Catholic Church for spiritual solace, as it is part of the "legitimate" sector of society. Many followers of Santa Muerte live on the margins of the law or outside it entirely. Many street vendors, taxi drivers, vendors of counterfeit merchandise, street people, prostitutes, pickpockets, petty drug traffickersand gangmembers are not practicing Catholics or Protestants, but neither are they atheists.[3]

In essence they have created their own new religion that reflects their realities, identity, and practices, especially since it speaks to the violence and struggles for life that many of these people face.[3] Conversely both police and military in Mexico can be counted among the faithful who ask for blessings on their weapons and ammunition.[3]

Altars with images of Santa Muerte have been found in many drug houses in both Mexico and the United States.[3] Among Santa Muerte's more famous devotees are kidnapper Daniel Arizmendi López, known as El Mochaorejas, and Gilberto García Mena, one of the bosses of the Gulf Cartel.[17][45] In March 2012, the Sonora State Investigative Police announced that they had arrested eight people for murder for allegedly having performed a human sacrifice of a woman and two ten-year-old boys to Santa Muerte (see:Silvia Meraz).[47]

In December 2010, the self-proclaimed bishop David Romo was arrested on charges of banking funds of a kidnapping gang linked to acartel. He continues to lead his sect from his prison, but it is unfeasible for Romo or anyone else to gain dominance over the Santa Muerte cult. Her faith is spreading rapidly and "organically" from town to town, so that is easy to become a preacher or messianic figure. Drug lords, like that of La Familia Cartel, take advantage of "gangster foot soldiers'" vulnerability and enforced religious obedience to establish a holy meaning to their cause that would keep their soldiers disciplined.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Santa_Muerte

Idolatry is about inventing imaginary religious beliefs.
altar.jpg
 
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The word 'idol' [in spiritual conotations] is meant to indicate 'False idol'...
But false to whom?
1. False to those that know nothing about it.
2. False to those that seek to replace one tribes idols with new ones.
3. False to those that know "Hey, you're just making-up this stuff"

If they were just making-up the stuff = False idol aka Idol.

Even Greek mythology comes from a mythical source.

If it truely comes from a mythical source it is fictional.

'False idols' come from sources of fiction.
 
So you are saying there are good idols.to worship according to the Bible?

Why wouldn't they say false idol if they meant false idol.

When I say carrot cake, I want carrot cake.
 
So you are saying there are good idols.to worship according to the Bible?

Why wouldn't they say false idol if they meant false idol.

When I say carrot cake, I want carrot cake.

Many an expert witness can identify a false Idol when they see one.

Who can recognise a real Idol as it should be seen?

We know what a false idol is!
What does the real [supreme absolute Godhead's] Idol look like? [it wouldn't be subjective, would it?]

Godhead's real visage would have tobe absolute for it to be for real, correct? [and yet again it would be lost]

American-Idol-Event-2018-cb734e6d6a.jpg
 
What is a Myth versus what is not a Myth?

A culture's collective mythology helps convey belonging, shared and religious experiences, behavioral models, and moral and practical lessons.

The study of myth began in ancient history. Rival classes of the Greek myths by Euhemerus, Plato and Sallustius were developed by the Neoplatonists and later revived by Renaissance mythographers. The nineteenth-century comparative mythology reinterpreted myth as a primitive and failed counterpart of science (Tylor), a "disease of language" (Müller), or a misinterpretation of magical ritual(Frazer).

Recent approaches often view myths as manifestations of psychological, cultural, or societal truths, rather than as inaccurate historical accounts.

One theory claims that myths are distorted accounts of historical events.[47][48] According to this theory, storytellers repeatedly elaborate upon historical accounts until the figures in those accounts gain the status of gods.

The word mythología [μυθολογία] appears in Plato, but was used as a general term for "fiction" or "story-telling" of any kind

From its earliest use in reference to a collection of traditional stories or beliefs,[14] mythology implied the falsehood of the stories being described. It came to be applied by analogy with similar bodies of traditional stories among other polytheistic cultures around the world.[9] The Greek loanword mythos[16] (pl. mythoi) and Latinatemythus[18] (pl. mythi) both appeared in English before the first example of myth in 1830.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mythology


2.
The worship of Santa Muerte also attracts those who are not inclined to seek the traditional Catholic Church for spiritual solace, as it is part of the "legitimate" sector of society. Many followers of Santa Muerte live on the margins of the law or outside it entirely. Many street vendors, taxi drivers, vendors of counterfeit merchandise, street people, prostitutes, pickpockets, petty drug traffickersand gangmembers are not practicing Catholics or Protestants, but neither are they atheists.[3]

In essence they have created their own new religion that reflects their realities, identity, and practices, especially since it speaks to the violence and struggles for life that many of these people face.[3] Conversely both police and military in Mexico can be counted among the faithful who ask for blessings on their weapons and ammunition.[3]

Altars with images of Santa Muerte have been found in many drug houses in both Mexico and the United States.[3] Among Santa Muerte's more famous devotees are kidnapper Daniel Arizmendi López, known as El Mochaorejas, and Gilberto García Mena, one of the bosses of the Gulf Cartel.[17][45] In March 2012, the Sonora State Investigative Police announced that they had arrested eight people for murder for allegedly having performed a human sacrifice of a woman and two ten-year-old boys to Santa Muerte (see:Silvia Meraz).[47]

In December 2010, the self-proclaimed bishop David Romo was arrested on charges of banking funds of a kidnapping gang linked to acartel. He continues to lead his sect from his prison, but it is unfeasible for Romo or anyone else to gain dominance over the Santa Muerte cult. Her faith is spreading rapidly and "organically" from town to town, so that is easy to become a preacher or messianic figure. Drug lords, like that of La Familia Cartel, take advantage of "gangster foot soldiers'" vulnerability and enforced religious obedience to establish a holy meaning to their cause that would keep their soldiers disciplined.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Santa_Muerte

Idolatry is about inventing imaginary religious beliefs.
altar.jpg
Atheists would say all religious beliefs are imaginary? Those Santa Muerte people believe the spirits they're addressing are real. And they may well be real. So the question still stands of who determines which religious beliefs are the false ones?
 
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RJM, where did you learn the word "Avatar"?

Is the word avatar imaginary?
Yes, good point: Linus represents ME. Although what I really am is far more complex than that. Well ... hopefully, lol

I agree that the word symbolises (or signs toward) the object. But if I use the word God or Spirit, what do I mean? It is far more abstract and subjective, than if I say 'biscuit'.

E=mc2 is a representation of a natural process that a library full of words still could not properly explain?

So perhaps a thing becomes an idol when it deflects attention away from, rather than towards, what it represents. Like a too fancy frame deflects sttention towards itself and away from the painting. But I'm not sure anyone ever really does venerate or worship the statue or picture. It is always a symbol.

Which is where the Catholic veneration of the 'real presence' becomes an issue?

I do agree that 'American Idol' should be renamed 'American False Idol' lol.

I don't know, it's just a discussion ...

(Post has been edited)
 
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