The Gorilla in the Room

[Thomas]

My son in law manages a pre-school nursery.

For the first time in his career (now he's the manager) he can implement the things he was taught when studying child psychology. The first rule, and the one that upsets most people, is do not cuddle the kids, unless they initiate the cuddle first. Don't ask, don't act, don't sit there and tap your knee ... just wait. If the kiddie wants a cuddle, then OK.

This has gone down like a lead balloon where he's worked before. The majority of pre-school carers are women, and very few of them have any actual specific qualification in pre-school psychology. Mostly its 'classroom assistant' and 'nursery' vocational qualifications, with the background legal checks of course. They feel very protective and maternal towards the children in their care ...

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Why is air travel so safe? One of the reasons in the immediate investigation of any incident, and the publications of the findings of that investigation. It means the industry cannot hide its 'cock-ups'. It means the industry actually learns the lessons of its mistakes and, lo and behold, the safety record is pretty impressive. There's a lot to be said for a professional attitude about 'fessing, learning and moving on.

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[wil]

I don't want to talk about it. I agree with @Thomas it's time for lay-Catholics to bring these bastards down, if the 'Cloth' won't get on with it. Its heartbreaking. Goodnight

If that is your choice....you'll have to talk about it. Lay catholics around the world will have to disrupt mass...stand up, and say they will return when changes are made to protect the children...and then walk out of mass...enmasse. Start a movement, get results.

I still think a video created to tell children how to respond to unwanted advances is required.

 

[RJM]

'... Dallas Charter. Now, church leaders must report instances of abuse to law enforcement, rather than handle the abuse among themselves. Matt Haverstick, an attorney representing two of the dioceses named in the report, has said that abuse cases have dropped precipitously since the 1970s and ’80s, and even more so since 2002. "Now law enforcement, and not internal church bureaucracies, investigates any allegations of abuse ... They pass these [cases] off to law enforcement and let law enforcement take the first crack at deciding what happened before the church will even touch it." David Gibson at Fordham University Center for Religion and Culture,and a longtime writer on Catholic issues, concurs. "The grand jury report actually shows how the system has worked," he said, referring to the Dallas charter and a wider cultural shift...'

A lot of the changes have been made. Most of these are historical allegations, going back as far as 70 years.

Somehow it seems some people regard Catholics as pretty backward. Perhaps we should burn our churches? Would that satisfy everybody?

My son in law manages a pre-school nursery.

For the first time in his career (now he's the manager) he can implement the things he was taught when studying child psychology. The first rule, and the one that upsets most people, is do not cuddle the kids, unless they initiate the cuddle first. Don't ask, don't act, don't sit there and tap your knee ... just wait. If the kiddie wants a cuddle, then OK.

This has gone down like a lead balloon where he's worked before. The majority of pre-school carers are women, and very few of them have any actual specific qualification in pre-school psychology. Mostly its 'classroom assistant' and 'nursery' vocational qualifications, with the background legal checks of course. They feel very protective and maternal towards the children in their care ...

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Why is air travel so safe? One of the reasons in the immediate investigation of any incident, and the publications of the findings of that investigation. It means the industry cannot hide its 'cock-ups'. It means the industry actually learns the lessons of its mistakes and, lo and behold, the safety record is pretty impressive. There's a lot to be said for a professional attitude about 'fessing, learning and moving on.

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There's obviously a huge difference between a female pre-school teacher cuddling a child on her knee who's fallen and hurt himself -- and a priest sexually fondling a nice looking altar-boy in his study.

But nowadays we have LBGTQ etc, and a blanket ban on sexism of any sort so -- yes, it seems the baby has to go out with the bathwater.

It's heartbreaking too that innocent priests, like your friend who was beaten up, are going to be regarded with threatening suspicion wherever they go in this early part of the 21st Century.

 

[RJM]

...I still think a video created to tell children how to respond to unwanted advances is required.

I hope something like this is already part of most pre-teen education?

 

[wil]

I hope something like this is already part of most pre-teen education?

Ask at your church. The only youth program I am aware of that does this is scouting.

And we need to be clear...these allegations, incidents and coverups are not from 70 years ago... Those are only the ones being reported by 70 year olds....these are ongoing, and have been continuously been reported around the world for the past 20 years....the recent grand jury in PA has documentation from recent to 70 years ago...

Reading it is shocking, looking at how long we've ignored the gorilla in the room and only given lip service is shocking. And as we know, it isn't just Catholics, or Protestands, or Religions...every youth program needs to be addressed...every school program needs to be addressed....and kids need to know they can and should report family members, teachers, youth leaders, older kids...anyone who assaults them or touches them innappropriately...and keep reporting until someone takes actions.

 

[Thomas]

Ask at your church.

What's happening at yours?

And we need to be clear...these allegations, incidents and coverups are not from 70 years ago...

Well they are, there are no current allegations in the indictments?

Those are only the ones being reported by 70 year olds... these are ongoing, and have been continuously been reported around the world for the past 20 years....the recent grand jury in PA has documentation from recent to 70 years ago...

But what are the recent allegations concerning abuses being committed now? I'm not aware of any?

There are two things here — the allegations, and the cover-up.

The reason why the allegations are coming to light now is because the cover-up didn't work.

No-one covered-up the abusers to preserve the abuser in place. They covered up to protect their own reputations — such as those who ignored the accusations, and/or moved a priest from one diocese to another and hoping he'll mend his ways.

The larger picture is the move to preserve the good name of the Church. And this was a fundamental failure that goes all the way to the top.

In ages past, the Church has strongly refuted the dualist notion of 'two churches' (proposed by gnostics, esoterists, et al), the one an 'esoteric' and intangible 'spiritual church', all essence and no body (to which they belong), the other an exoteric and visible 'material church', all body and no essence.

The Church has maintained, as would I, that no such distinction exists in real terms. The Church is the Church, the visible aspect of the Mystical Body of Christ, the Bride, the Ark, etc.

So when these abuses emerge, it is the Church that stands condemned for, as I have said, acting as every bureaucracy does, which is to silence the accuser (by money or intimidation), and cover up.

The Church cannot have it both ways.

Pope Francis has called for a Church-wide response — fasting, prayer, etc. OK. But let us look at the root of the problem.

It's not celibacy. But it does stem from the fact that the governance and management of the institution is entirely by those in orders, and there has been an historical assumption by those in orders that they are better suited and are intellectually, morally and spiritually superior to the laity and so the decisions should rest with them. This is clericalism.

If Pope Francis is really intending to end clericalism, as he has said, then this should be reflected in the governance and management structure, which should represent the laity as well as the clergy — that is be composed by both.

There are three 'ranks' in the clergy. There are deacons (the helpers, long out of fashion), priests (the workers) and bishops (the management). The pope is a bishop. The titles of pope, cardinal, archbishop, etc., are administrative titles.

So preserve the papacy for those in orders. Preserve the Sacraments for those in orders. That makes sense to me. But the College of Cardinals should be open to women in orders (their are some really heavyweight nuns and abbesses out there) and the laity, men and women, in general. This makes total sense to me, that the Collegiate Body reflects the whole body. It reflects the Catholic World and, by so doing, will broaden the talent pool of those with the skills and the savvy to do the job.

(A female priesthood is, it seems, a non-starter. Every pope has said a firm 'no' to that. We talk of 'glass ceilings' in the secular world. In the RCC, it's reinforced concrete.)

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The protective education of minors is another issue, and should be addressed.

As it seems at the moment, the major threat that far and away outnumbers those come to light in the Church are online abuse, from bullying on social media to full-blown grooming, etc. As long as men have willies, the problems will not go away ...

 

[RJM]

I think a lot of Catholic children are educated in Catholic schools. The staff is a mixture of clergy and laity. It is here, I hope, they are taught early about sexual abuse/approach by adults if not, as @wil says, it has to be time to start?

 

[wil]

What's happening at yours?

Nothing in this regard. Background checks for anyone who teaches or deals with youth. But no video education program...something I've already suggested locally, but the product will have to be created from HQ.

As it seems at the moment, the major threat that far and away outnumbers those come to light in the Church are online abuse, from bullying on social media to full-blown grooming, etc. As long as men have willies, the problems will not go away ...

unfortunately....

 

[Thomas]

A new report detailing widespread sexual abuse, criminal sexual assault, and community complicity in Shambhala has been published today by Andrea Winn’s Buddhist Project Sunshine.* The report is 46 pages long and addresses a number of questions that have arisen since the second report. It also features new findings from Carol Merchasin, an independent investigator invited to look into allegations against Shambhala leadership and in particular Ösel Rangdröl Mukpo (aka Sakyong Mipham Rinpoche).

Mukpo/Sakyong is the son of Chögyam Trungpa, the charismatic founder of Shambhala Buddhism, and the current lineage holder.

Link here

It goes on ...

 

[wil]

Yikes... looks like we have to tell women to tell and keep telling too...

 

[RJM]

This stuff is not good.

https://www.lifesitenews.com/news/f...knew-of-mccarricks-misdeeds-repealed-sanction

 

[wil]

This stuff is not good.

https://www.lifesitenews.com/news/f...knew-of-mccarricks-misdeeds-repealed-sanction

Better than continuing a cover up, coming clean is good....doing so to save your soul.at the end of your life....not so much. If it causes more people to admit their own errors and cleans the shop....I am all for it.

I spoke to my daughter about what her department is doing....she works for.the state prosecutors office dispensing money to organizations that do victim assistance to domestic abuse cases. I asked about a drive for videos to be proactive... Most of what they are doing now is reactive, not proactive...

 

[RJM]

Well, at least they've decided to sell it again, but only after outrage from the parishioners and press. It's just all going sadly wrong, imo.



https://sanfrancisco.cbslocal.com/2018/08/27/san-jose-bishop-diocese-million-dollar-home-retirement/

SAN JOSE, Calif. (CBS SF/AP) — After some public backlash over the Catholic Diocese of San Jose purchasing a five-bedroom, $2.3 million home in Silicon Valley for retiring Bishop Patrick J. McGrath, the bishop himself announced he would not be moving into the house.

McGrath released a statement Monday afternoon saying he would not move into the home.

“I failed to consider adequately the housing crisis in this valley and the struggles of so many families and communities in light of that crisis,” the bishop’s statement read. “I have heard from many on this topic and I have decided I will not move into this house.”

The purchase had been made despite the 640,000-member diocese’s mission of charity and serving the poor.

Bishop Patrick J. McGrath, 73, acknowledged in an interview with the Mercury News of San Jose that the price tag is “a lot of money,” saying “I could understand” it might not sit well with some parishioners.

The nearly 3,300-square-foot (306 square-meter) home’s listing boasts of a “grand-sized ...

 

[Thomas]

This stuff is not good.

There's an interesting article on Patheos which suggests that LifeSite and the National Catholic Reporter are not to enamoured of the current pope and prepared to go the distance in supporting an in-house coup against him.

I really don't know what's going on inside the walls of the Vatican, but am prepared to accept that the 'JP-II can do no wrong' and the 'Benedict-XV can do no right' and 'Francis is the downfall of the Church' attitude among certain quarters of the bureaucracy is wreaking havoc behind the scenes.

 

[RJM]

There's an interesting article on Patheos which suggests that LifeSite and the National Catholic Reporter are not to enamoured of the current pope and prepared to go the distance in supporting an in-house coup against him.

I really don't know what's going on inside the walls of the Vatican, but am prepared to accept that the 'JP-II can do no wrong' and the 'Benedict-XV can do no right' and 'Francis is the downfall of the Church' attitude among certain quarters of the bureaucracy is wreaking havoc behind the scenes.

Possibly, but it's an old tactic to defend against unpleasant allegations by blaming the media for publishing them.

It's not a comment article. It's a statement by an Archbishop. He could be lying. But that seems unlikely?

This stuff needs to get sorted out. 'Drain the swamp' truly applies, imo.