Hello
Its been weighing heavily on my mind why some Christians fear Islam. In my research of this I found an article that was disturbing to me and I would like to share it in hopes of clearing up the question of apostacy in Islam. I would like our forums Muslims to please read the article and respond if you can find the time.
Salam Faithfulservant
Thank you for this thread and sorry I didn't notice it before as it's really important and I'd like to offer my 10 cents (well about $50 dollars actually ... it may be a looong post sorry) for what it's worth.
If I may start with the second paragraph of the lecture/website and ask you to google Al Azhar+The Bill of Legal Punishments and tell me what the first page of the google results tells you.
On my computer ... given they claim this is the highest authority and has been sent to every mosque in the western world ... the results are all either Christian websites or anti Islam websites. If this is the Islamic last word on punishments don't we think Muslim websites would include this or discuss it or even mention it as a footnote?
Secondly ... Al Azhar, like all institutions, are famous for coming out with with some excellent fatwas (which are opinions) and also some utter claptrap, like the fatwa about grown men suckling female work colleagues so they can share an office (which strictly speaking is correct because it would negate those two people from marrying but who in their right mind would suggest it as a viable option???) ... oh yeah, I can image lots of Muslim men would allow their wives, sisters or daughters to suckle a grown man so they can work together ... about the same time hell freezes over.
Thirdly the page suggests this has been sent to all Western mosques requesting them to carry out such punishments ... this goes strictly against the teachings of Islam, so I must question authenticity of this statement. Muslims living in a non-Muslim country must abide by the laws of that country unless they prohibit following the 5 pillars of Islam (belief in One True God, prayers, almsgiving, pilgrimage and fasting) .. so if the UK banned me from going on pilgrimage I, as a Muslim, should either defy that order and go anyway or I should move to a country which does not prohibit pilgrimage ... can't find anything about I must kill the infidels!!!
Personally as soon as I saw the second paragraph I would stop reading .... but obviously the point is this is being fed to Christian readers as absolute fact and proof of something.
So the actual body of the lecture claiming apostates should be killed in Islam is correct ... this is agreed by the 4 schools and all Muslims everywhere since Islam began .... if you believe the hype.
Now let us look at the website of the Grand Mufti Ali Gomaa of Al Azhar ... yes the same Al Azhar that the website you linked to claims sent out this Bill of Punishments ... and we find:
"In fact, it was only two years ago that Sheikh Ali Gomaa made clear statements to the effect that apostasy is not punishable by death in Islam, a position that he holds to this day."
False Accusations Regarding the Grand Mufti and Sayyid al-Qimni | None | My Website
I don't think anybody can say he is not an Islamic scholar (although the "death to everyone" mob on the internet will no doubt say it) ... This is his opinion, based on a lifetime of studying Islam so is he high on drugs or a single lone voice in Islam?
We have numerous scholars in the West who either say there is no penalty for apostasy in this life or that there can only be punishment if the apostasy is coupled with harming the Muslim community ... of course the "death to everyone if they mispronounce the name Mohamed" camp will say leaving Islam harms the Muslim community, this is modern western influence on western scholars who don't really understand Arabic (my hubby has listened to Hamza Yusuf and said it would be impossible to know he is not Arabic without seeing him because his pronounciation is perfect).
So is this difference of opinion about apostasy a modern phenomenon coming from the west?
I give you Abu Al-Walid Al-Baji 1013–1081, who was a Maliki jurist ... modern western influence ... I don't think so.
There are plenty of scholars, both Eastern and Western, who will say it is death for apostates but I am simply trying to demonstrate that the subject is not as cut and dried as most Muslims would have us believe.
I found a very interesting article, which is a refutation of an article but let's have a look at the topic of apostasy ... clearly both of the authors are not simply laypeople having a random guess:
Kamali states:
Indeed, some commentators have drawn the drastic conclusion that the Qur'anic passages which validate holy war (jihad) and fighting against disbelievers actually abrogate the Qur'an's proclamation on tolerance and respect for other religions. [...] In his monograph, The Punishment of Apostasy in Islam, S. A. Rahman looks into the evidence in the Qur'an and the Sunnah in detail, and draws attention to the fact that the Qur'an is silent on the question of death as the punishment for apostasy, despite this subject occurring no less than twenty times in the Holy Book.
The above opinion is revisionism posing as scholarship.
Al-Jawhari [4th c.] in Nawadir al-Ijma` said there is ijma` among the Sahaba that the punishment of apostasy by death is meant by the verse of al-Ma'ida 33: {The only reward of those who make war upon Allah and His messenger and strive after corruption in the land will be that they will be killed or crucified, or have their hands and feet on alternate sides cut off, or will be expelled out of the land. Such will be their degradation in the world, and in the Hereafter theirs will be an awful doom}. This is mentioned in Ibn Qattan's encyclopedia of Ijma`.
Critique of MH Kamali article 'Freedom of Expression in Islam'
Personally I find it interesting that the refutation doesn't attempt to address the fact that the Quran mentions apostasy 20 times and yet omits to state any punishment but goes straight into the "it is agreed by ... " argument. Nor does it explain why his own answer includes the words "who make war" ... nope it's just death for going astray!!
We only have to read recent news about the murder of a Pakistan Muslim who was killed because he was trying to repeal the blasphemy laws to see how difficult it can be to speak out against the accepted interpretations and of course it explains why scholars in the West are more able to offer their opinions on such controversial subjects.
My own personal view ... look away if you are Muslim and in the death to the infidels camp ... is that this subject is not as cut and dried as many would have us think and that we (Muslims as a whole) are simply following the majority voice from times gone by because descenting voices were simply silenced .. as is still happening today unfortunately, it seems debate is tantamount to herecy. It is far easier to, particularly in a religious context, to take the strictest path because you are not going to be accused of trying to go against God's Will so in fear many who do not agree will at the least keep silent.
If you still awake after all that ... I found this the other day and think it demonstrates perfectly how we can all be duped by what we read on the internet and it shows how far some people are willing to go to defame other faiths:
Google Tabari 1:280 and you will see this repeated over and over again on many websites:
Tabari 1:280 "Allah said, 'It is My obligation to make Eve bleed once every month as she made this tree bleed. I must also make Eve stupid, although I created her intelligent.' Because Allah afflicted Eve, all of the women of this world menstruate and are stupid."
Again google Tabari 8:62 or Ishaq 496 and you will see this:
Tabari 8:62/Ishaq:496 "Ali [Muhammad's adopted son, son-in-law, and future Caliph] said, 'Prophet, women are plentiful. You can get a replacement, easily changing one for another.'"
In The Name Of Allah - Women in Islam
So the religion I chose to join thinks I am stupid and easily replaced
Now read this ... and thank you so much to the author of this blog for his honesty in posting that he had repeated these offensive lies over and over again but had come to find the truth ... they are totally made up!!!
Lies Very Important Information : I Believe That Science And Faith Are Identical Twins Story & Experience
"I am guilty of repeating these FALSE verses as an argument that Muslim women are mistreated as a general rule under the laws of Islam. The lesson I've learned is this. Do not trust any repitition of Islamic scripture you find on the internet, unless it's from a Muslim scholar or at least a well educated Muslim. "
9:113 reads as follows:
It is not for the Prophet and those who believe that they should ask of God forgiveness for the idolaters, even though they may be kinsmen, after it has become plain to them that they are the people of Hell.
