"Salvation" and "Enlightenment"

  • Thread starter CobblersApprentice
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muhammad_isa said:
It is more about the reason for our personal conviction..
Why is it that people all over the world have become Muslims and Christians?
Why is it that Sikhism and Hinduism haven't become internationally acknowledged as being "the truth"?
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They don't actively proselytize, unlike Christians and Muslims.

muhammad_isa said:
..depends what you are looking for, I would say. Mankind is tribal, and "believe" for reasons other than acknowledgement of truth, often expressing dislike for change etc.
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Tradition.

muhammad_isa said:
Some people are atheists, and prefer secular values as they value the culture of the country they come from, to the extent that they cannot see that their civilization is seriously declining.
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We do observe civilization declining. Just not convinced religion is the silver bullet. Often, it seems, it is mixed in with other causes of the decline, in fact, like the tribalism you mentioned. It seems to be more divisive than unifying, in general.
 
Can there be a civilization that does not decline ? I think not.

I think everything has a life span - even humankind itself. Preservation, may sometimes, be going against the natural way of things - making the natural way of things much more difficult than need be.
 
Cino said:
They don't actively proselytize, unlike Christians and Muslims..
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Interesting point .. I assume that religions that don't encourage people towards "the truth" are not then concerned about the plight of others
 
muhammad_isa said:
Interesting point .. I assume that religions that don't encourage people towards "the truth" are not then concerned about the plight of others
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I would say that a great deal of missionary activity has been more concerned with exploitation of others than with their "plight".

Then what was said concerning "success" and its paradoxes might be considered. Spreading the "truth" of love is very much a mystery given that we have so little of it ourselves.
 
muhammad_isa said:
Interesting point .. I assume that religions that don't encourage people towards "the truth" are not then concerned about the plight of others
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Or they don't assume everyone else is doing it wrong?
I find your comment condescending, perhaps we should avoid such blanket statements about a world religion.
 
muhammad_isa said:
Interesting point .. I assume that religions that don't encourage people towards "the truth" are not then concerned about the plight of others
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It's complicated. Our modern Western concept of "Religion" as commodity products on a marketplace of ideas simply does not apply very well to many cultures.

Then there are historic situations. For example, Jews were forbidden to proselytize in medieval times in the Byzantine empire and other places. Nowadays they take converts but will try to dissuade all but the most determined. Non-Jews can follow the Laws of Noah if they want to be counted among the righteous who will have a place in the world to come.

Hinduism is a large group of related religions, most of which are passed on in the family, i.e. people are by birth part of those traditions, though there are missionary currents like ISKCON. Same applies to Japanese, Chinese, and other religions, which are hard to separate from the respective cultures.

Sikhism seems to be an attempt at bridging Islam and Hinduism, to foster coexistence, not to enter yet another contestant into the fray.

So there are many reasons why a faith does not proselytize and still does care about spiritual welfare of others.
 
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Cino said:
It's complicated.
...
there are many reasons why a faith does not proselytize and still does care about spiritual welfare of others.
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Yes .. I wasn't really saying that they don't categorically care about others..
I was thinking more about the "wish for others what you wish for yourself" angle.
 
muhammad_isa said:
Yes .. I wasn't really saying that they don't categorically care about others..
I was thinking more about the "wish for others what you wish for yourself" angle.
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Maybe they wish for others to be able to follow their traditions without being subjected to missionary activity...
 
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Cino said:
Maybe they wish for others to be able to follow their traditions without being subjected to missionary activity...
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I don't think so..

Wikipedia says "Hinduism has been called the 'oldest religion' in the world. Scholars regard it as a synthesis of various Indian cultures and traditions, with diverse roots and no single founder."

It is what it is .. as I say, people often prefer to follow folklore rather than seek truth.
 
muhammad_isa said:
I don't think so..

Wikipedia says "Hinduism has been called the 'oldest religion' in the world. Scholars regard it as a synthesis of various Indian cultures and traditions, with diverse roots and no single founder."

It is what it is .. as I say, people often prefer to follow folklore rather than seek truth.
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Well Christianity is a synthesis of Greek and Jewish traditions and folklore, which in turn incorporated Egyptian, Mesopotamian, and Persian material, and it gets kind of blurry beyond that because the written record ends there.

Doesn't make it any less of a religion, I think.

And the same applies to Islam.

So why not extend the courtesy to Hinduism?
 
Cino said:
Well Christianity is a synthesis of Greek and Jewish traditions and folklore, which in turn incorporated Egyptian, Mesopotamian, and Persian material, and it gets kind of blurry beyond that because the written record ends there.
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Not really .. the Bible is not based on folklore.

Cino said:
And the same applies to Islam.
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Certainly not! The Qur'an is claimed to be "the words of G-d" that were put into the heart/mouth of Muhammad, peace be with him.
It is also not an ancient text. It is only ~1500 years old, which is relatively modern, with reliable historical account.

Cino said:
So why not extend the courtesy to Hinduism?
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If I appear to be discourteous, that is not my intention. I'm just calling "a spade a spade" .. sorry if that offends
 
muhammad_isa said:
If I appear to be discourteous, that is not my intention. I'm just calling "a spade a spade" .. sorry if that offends
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So you just don't want people to be offended that you don't think Hinduism is a true religion?
Are you really that well read on Hinduism to make these statements? Your analysis so far seems very shallow.
 
muhammad_isa said:
I'm just calling "a spade a spade"
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Well, one person's spade is anothers digging implement. While not being over conversant with the sacred literature of Hinduism, I do have great respect for the Upanishads. Again, the Bhagavad Gita, which I have read, is undoubtedly one of the world's greatest scriptures.

Again, as I understand it, even many devote Jewish people recognise that "folklore" played a part in the emergence of the Old Testament.

And when Timothy said in 2 Timothy 3:16-17 that "all scripture is God breathed", was he aware of writing God Breathed words? And who and when was it deemed that they were?
 
muhammad_isa said:
If I appear to be discourteous, that is not my intention. I'm just calling...
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I am NOT offended. It's fun. You explain what you know I explain what I know.
I am very conservative. So not to worry.
We've seen several "Still haven't answer my question" recapitulations...that fun.

I am very educated on the subject whence you are free to profit from my clerical acumen.

For example, Did Mohamed see Gabriel in a dream? Are we indebted to Gabriel?

Are the pages of the Koran numbered with Arabic numerals? Are these numeral still used today?
 
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muhammad_isa said:
I was basically thinking about "the West" really, as that is where most of us on this forum live.
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Yes that now is the classic pathos.

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