Refutation of The Pauline Conspiracy, take two

[juantoo3]

Sure .. but one has to be careful with assuming that the beliefs of the Pharisees are/were beyond question.

Does one equally have to be careful with assuming that the beliefs of Imams are/were beyond question?

Jesus has the authority from God [ as the Messiah ], to differentiate between truth and falsehood . Why would they want to get rid of God's messengers, if all their laws and interpretations were true?

I am not in a position to judge another faith. I cannot tell why. I understand the Jews have their wisdom developed over something like 4000 years. I realize there are zealots of all faiths who criticize and condemn other faiths - if you have not noticed already, let me state plainly for the record that I am not one of them.

It is only a Jewish belief that they have "no duty to the gentiles" .. i.e. it is their religion, and they have no responsibility to educate others

I am not deeply immersed in Judaism and Jewish tradition, but this is completely foreign to my understanding. Jews have been cooperative with other faiths for as far back as I can see in history, unless and until they were backed into a corner. It was explained to me, I think it was Bananabrain but I may be mistaken, that a large part of this is due to having been a subjugated minority throughout so many centuries. An attitude of promoting cooperation was a cultural necessity. I think this can be seen most plainly in those Jewish communities living under Sharia cultures.

In fact, "no duty to the gentiles" appears to my experience far more to be an Islamic practice. Perhaps "Kaafer" should replace the word "gentile" to be a bit more accurate?

Prophet Abraham establlshed a place of worship in the desert with Hagar's son Ishmael, but after a number of generations, the Arabs had returned to idolatry. This has been happening in human society throughout time.

And Moses married a daughter of the Arabs, a distant grand-daughter of Ishmael. Does that make Moses an idolater (in your view)?

 

[RabbiO]

Rabbi Simmlei in the Talmud is quoted as saying that there are 613 commandments, but provides no list of what they are. There are several proposed lists of the תרי״ג מצוות‎, none of which is the universally accepted "official" list. The one most usually cited, however, is that of Maimonides. Of that list, I should point out, only about 40% are from Leviticus.

 

[muhammad_isa]

In fact, "no duty to the gentiles" appears to my experience far more to be an Islamic practice. Perhaps "Kaafer" should replace the word "gentile" to be a bit more accurate?

Exactly .. you understand the sentiment very well..
Again who says that "gentiles" don't have to follow Jewish law if they acknowledge Jesus to be the Messiah?
Not Jesus! That is my point.
Why should God guide some of his human creation with 100's of laws, and then say they are not necessary for the rest of His creation.
Looks highly suspicious .. and rightly so .. it's incorrect

And Moses married a daughter of the Arabs, a distant grand-daughter of Ishmael. Does that make Moses an idolater (in your view)?

An idolater is somebody who associates partners with God or worships other than God.
Naturally, we all have a heritage, but you can NOT inherit the gardens of paradise

 

[RabbiO]

I owe a response to @juantoo3 explaining why describing Jesus as a rabbi would be less than accurate. Once I do that I’ll take my leave of this topic. The main thrust of this thread, after all, is of Christian concern and is posted in the Christianity sub forum.

Anyhow, that will give me some extra time to take care of my rabbinical responsibilities.

 

[Cino]

Why should God guide some of his human creation with 100's of laws, and then say they are not necessary for the rest of His creation.
Looks highly suspicious .. and rightly so .. it's incorrect

I don't think it is a Jewish position to say that Muslims are incorrect in their mode of worship, or Christians, or that their own way is the only correct way.

 

[juantoo3]

Exactly .. you understand the sentiment very well..
Again who says that "gentiles" don't have to follow Jewish law if they acknowledge Jesus to be the Messiah?
Not Jesus! That is my point.
Why should God guide some of his human creation with 100's of laws, and then say they are not necessary for the rest of His creation.
Looks highly suspicious .. and rightly so .. it's incorrect



An idolater is somebody who associates partners with God or worships other than God.
Naturally, we all have a heritage, but you can NOT inherit the gardens of paradise

Well, as they say, the proof is in the pudding. The Jews have been with us for a LONG time, longer than Christians, longer than Muslims. They must be doing something right.

And I will be just fine if I make it into the unkept fields and meadows outside of the garden, as long as I get inside paradise I will believe I have done my best.

 

[juantoo3]

I don't think it is a Jewish position to say that Muslims are incorrect in their mode of worship, or Christians, or that their own way is the only correct way.

There is a great deal both Christians and Muslims could learn from Judaism in that regard.