I just though of something funny. You three guys are kind of like a trinity of your own.
Yes, very good
Who created God?
- Thread starter muhammad_isa
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Yes, very good
Well, it becomes a defence against misinformation and inaccuracy, really. If the adversary were to cease spreading ... porkie-pies, and half truths and Wikipedia instant knowledge paste-ups out of context, etc -- I could sheath my sword and go back to my farm, lolI just though of something funny. You three guys are kind of like a trinity of your own.
Nevertheless, I really am done responding on this thread ...
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Agree with Jesus?
Of course, I agree with Jesus in every way and everything!
I don't think that Jesus has said that our souls aren't immortal. You are trying to quote Bible verses at me to suggest that he did.
Is that your defence of the OBVIOUS verses about abiding in heaven / hell for eternity?
It's a pity you can't just scrub those verses out, isn't it?
stranger
the divine ignorance (and friends)
I don't know why you keep saying that.
It's not as if we are just going round in circles.
We have covered quite a few different topics and concepts over the last few pages.
The only concept you seem to like is that Jesus MUST be God .. and anything else is blasphemy.
Well, that's what I have been philosophising about over the last few posts.
You want me to commit myself, like a doctor, to a certain diagnosis
I don't blame you for being confused at all.
You will claim that it is all circumstantial.
Why was Justianian so against Origen and declared his works heresy?
Is it just coincidence that there was serious conflict going on between Arians and Niceans at the time.
I don't believe that our lives are just "a coincidence" .. and that there does not need to be "a god".
Nor am I unable to put 2 and 2 together and come up with the correct answer
I'm sorry .. You are right. I am too hard on you.
I don't blame you for quiting when it gets hot .. it's no good if we abuse each other.
I say sorry, again.
OK, so how do you interpret:
"but rather fear him that can destroy both soul and body in hell" (Matthew 10:28)?
Further, it seems to me that Jesus said:
"Father, the hour is come, glorify thy Son, that thy Son may glorify thee. As thou (Father) hast given him power over all flesh, that he may give eternal life to all whom thou hast given him. Now this is eternal life: That they may know thee, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent." (John 17:1-3)
So it seems to me, I have emphasised the words, that the immortality of the soul is conditional. It is not an inherent quality of the soul, it is extra, a gift, and that no-man may know the Father, that is no man may know eternal life, except in and through the Son — "And no one knoweth the Son, but the Father: neither doth any one know the Father, but the Son, and he to whom it shall please the Son to reveal him" (Matthew 11:27, Luke 10:22).
So who's scrubbing verses now?
"but rather fear him that can destroy both soul and body in hell" (Matthew 10:28)?
Further, it seems to me that Jesus said:
"Father, the hour is come, glorify thy Son, that thy Son may glorify thee. As thou (Father) hast given him power over all flesh, that he may give eternal life to all whom thou hast given him. Now this is eternal life: That they may know thee, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent." (John 17:1-3)
So it seems to me, I have emphasised the words, that the immortality of the soul is conditional. It is not an inherent quality of the soul, it is extra, a gift, and that no-man may know the Father, that is no man may know eternal life, except in and through the Son — "And no one knoweth the Son, but the Father: neither doth any one know the Father, but the Son, and he to whom it shall please the Son to reveal him" (Matthew 11:27, Luke 10:22).
So who's scrubbing verses now?
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OK that is what you believe.
You believe that nobody can go to heaven except for those who believe in Jesus? That means that Muslims and Jews
are excluded, and their souls will be "blotted out"?
Also, that people with evil intention and deeds will not suffer in a life hereafter, but be "blotted out" ?
What about:
25 But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented.
26 And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence.
27 Then he said, I pray thee therefore, father, that thou wouldest send him to my father's house:
28 For I have five brethren; that he may testify unto them, lest they also come into this place of torment.
- Luke 16 -
44 Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee?
45 Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me.
46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.
- Matthew 25 -
42 And whosoever shall offend one of these little ones that believe in me, it is better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and he were cast into the sea.
43 And if thy hand offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched:
44 Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.
- Mark 9 -
I feel like I've been savaged by a wet sheep ..,
Edit: avoiding all relevant questions for last 5 pages
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stranger
the divine ignorance (and friends)
Hmmm. Many books have been written on the restitution of all things. I have always thought of it as something that would be revealed only as needed. Many of us just can't leave it alone, our spirit/intuition will just not let us. I suppose if it is true, at some point in time it would be revealed. But I really have a hard time consigning anyone's soul to hell, or even to annihilation. To have power to do it is not the same thing as doing it.
Tony Bristow-Stagg
One Planet One People Please
All I can say, is luckily many answers to all these complexities have been given.
So we can now live as one people, on one planet under service to One God.
Or, we can carry on saying that all Faiths were given by a different God, but I am more inclined to think that would be a worldly view and not a view born of the Spirit that is of our One God.
Regards Tony
So we can now live as one people, on one planet under service to One God.
Or, we can carry on saying that all Faiths were given by a different God, but I am more inclined to think that would be a worldly view and not a view born of the Spirit that is of our One God.
Regards Tony
Again, this is where the knowledge of "the Father" comes in.
What actually IS "the God".
We might have an impression in our minds that He is a bit like one of us .. a person i.e. a perfect "soul"
However, that is much too simplistic.
A "being" that is aware of every single electron that has spun and will ever spin, is CLEARLY not so simple to envisage.
"God does not wrong us in the slightest. It is mankind that wrong themselves"
..so one can imagine that it is a sea of souls that have wronged themselves, and as some say "separated from God".
Hell can be seen as a spiritual suffering .. it doesn't have to be literal fire and brimstone that "a supreme being" literally throws one into.
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stranger
the divine ignorance (and friends)
Yes, I think I see what you mean. More of a purgatorial. For law to be law, it must have teeth, and that is what we know as hell and punishment. I have often thought: what if, in the end, there was no one who was not written in the book of life. The possibility must be there, though, and that is the veil over the heart of God.
Tony Bristow-Stagg
One Planet One People Please
What is knowledge of the Father?
This is where we have the choice, is it our knowledge or is it God's knowledge that we pursue?
That is the quandary we all face, many still fight to say there is more than One God, or that God is only revealed in their view of Faith.
As to the Father, this is what Baha'u'llah offered to the Pope.
"O POPE! Rend the veils asunder. He Who is the Lord of Lords is come overshadowed with clouds, and the decree hath been fulfilled by God, the Almighty, the Unrestrained… He, verily, hath again come down from Heaven even as He came down from it the first time. Beware that thou dispute not with Him even as the Pharisees disputed with Him (Jesus) without a clear token or proof......‘Lo! The Father is come, and that which ye were promised in the Kingdom is fulfilled!…’ "
Regards Tony
"And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire"
- Book of Revelation -
Not possible .. satan CANNOT be in the book of life .. nor can those who purposely follow him.
I'm so sorry you are working so hard. Please just read back and try to answer the questions addressed to you.Would you like to expand on that, please?
I am really being worked hard here
New one: Do you, as a Muslim, pray to or address Allah (PBUH) as Father? If not, what gives you the authority to instruct Christians in the subject?
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