Who created God?

[stranger]

"And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire"
- Book of Revelation -

Not possible .. satan CANNOT be in the book of life .. nor can those who purposely follow him.

Now I must be getting tired, this reminded me of American Pie. Something, something, "did you write the book of love and do you have faith in God above".... We got to leave the old fellow out of it for now, perhaps going too far. However, if it were to be so, he would have to lose his haughtiness for sure. Is this the man who terrorized the nations? Even fire that is purgatorial has to be hot to cleanse. I'm actually going to have to start reading more at some point, my memory is just not what it used to be.

(A thought, perhaps that lack of assurance that it will not be permanent is part of it. The veil, just how far will the love of God go?)

 

[muhammad_isa]

Do you, as a Muslim, pray to or address Allah (PBUH) as Father?

No .. what has that to do with anything?
Do you pray to the Church Fathers .. or to your local Padre / Father?
Don't be so pedantic

I DO sometimes recite the Lord's Prayer..
Our Father, whom art in heaven..

 

[RJM]

No .. what has that to do with anything?
Do you pray to the Church Fathers .. or to your local Padre / Father?
Don't be so pedantic

I DO sometimes recite the Lord's Prayer..
Our Father, whom art in heaven..

I rest my point. Do you pray to Allah (PBUH) as Father? But you're the expert on the subject? Talk about dodging the question.

You know all about what people of a different faith should do, that you yourself do not. You're expert about their writers and thinkers from Wikipedia, but know nothing about your own?

...https://www.gotquestions.org/God-our-Father.html
Islam gives Allah 99 names, but not one of the names is Father.

You fool nobody ...

 

[muhammad_isa]

However, if it were to be so, he would have to lose his haughtiness for sure. Is this the man who terrorized the nations? Even fire that is purgatorial has to be hot to cleanse.

Yes .. that's it. Satan is NOT going to repent, at any time .. before, OR after his death.
If he was, then why hasn't he already done so .. he's had long enough

Furthermore, scripture shows us that some people will be "in hell for ever".
Just because we might not like that, does not mean that we should seek to ignore its truth.
That is why it is so important to die with faith. i.e. repenting before death

 

[stranger]

Furthermore, scripture shows us that some people will be "in hell for ever".
Just because we might not like that, does not mean that we should seek to ignore its truth.
That is why it is so important to die with faith. i.e. repenting before death

Can't really argue with that, however God never forces repentance upon anyone. There is goodness, there is severity. If anything coaxes it out though, it will be the love. The love that goes deeper than the wound.

 

[stranger]

If we don't have that, we have nothing.

 

[muhammad_isa]

Why is it called "the pit of fire"?
Perhaps, it's because if we fall in there, we can't get out?
Our souls have become permanently damaged?

It would be of our own doing. Spite and arrogance .. deceit and torment .. for evermore.
Fortunately for us, Almighty God does not WANT that to happen to us.
He has given us all the chance to get out while we can .. i.e. in this life

Easier said than done though. Belief in God is just the start. It takes patience and perseverance,
and one can be sure that satan will be furious about it. He doesn't want human beings to have knowledge.
satan has vast experience .. he used to be with the angels .. his knowledge of God is great .. but he is so envious..
he has destroyed himself.

 

[muhammad_isa]

Yes OF COURSE satan knows that he's going to hell.
There is nothing that he can do about it.
The only thing that he can do is to take as many human beings with him as he can !

..and the way that he does that is many fold. he comes from every direction.
he likes to divide us, of course .. that increases his power.
he comes through our desires, and causes us to be lustful and / or angry.
he also wants to hide the truth, so as he can manipulate us, and cause nations to fall along with him.

..oh so many ways he lies in wait for us.

+ + + + +

Yes @stranger .. love is the answer. However, denial of truth is not. The Mercy of God is greater than his wrath.
..however, without the concept of Godfearing, we cannot be successful.
Anybody who denies it becomes satan's dupe.

 

[muhammad_isa]

Why would anybody want to go to hell, including satan?
It is pretty obvious to me, that nobody would.

However, if we remain on a path of opposition to Almighty God, then that is where we are heading.
The only way to avoid it, is to change direction. If we won't do that, then it is not God that wrongs us, but ourselves.

Denial of hell is more or less the same thing. How can anybody NOT go to hell, if they don't recognise its existence?
i.e. there is no Godfearing, as is also the case of an atheist

The only difference is that an atheist claims that NOBODY will go to heaven.

 

[muhammad_isa]

Somebody may say, that Love is all you need.
If one loves God with all his heart and all his being, then that is a complete faith.

One has to examine this carefully. What are we actually loving?
..well, of course, that would be our individual concept of what God is.
If one claims that "the law" has been superseeded, then we are left with "loving our neighbour" .. nothing else.
Is that sufficient to prevent satan from corrupting us? I would say not.
For example, we need to go to church, or be in the company of other believers etc.
..and oh, so much more.

The concept of Godfearing is about the avoidance of sins.
Sins are about what is lawful and what is not.

 

[stranger]

Why is it called "the pit of fire"?
Perhaps, it's because if we fall in there, we can't get out?
Our souls have become permanently damaged?

In spite of my dark nature and humor I am actually an eternal optimist. I can't say "permanently damaged", only damaged.

It would be of our own doing. Spite and arrogance .. deceit and torment .. for evermore.
Fortunately for us, Almighty God does not WANT that to happen to us.
He has given us all the chance to get out while we can .. i.e. in this life

As best we can and according to the measure of grace, yes, I believe that.

Easier said than done though. Belief in God is just the start. It takes patience and perseverance,
and one can be sure that satan will be furious about it. He doesn't want human beings to have knowledge.
satan has vast experience .. he used to be with the angels .. his knowledge of God is great .. but he is so envious..
he has destroyed himself.

Yes, I suspect both envy and some sort of love that became twisted. Can't really explain that. It's like, this is God's wife but Lucifer says, she is so beautiful I must have her instead. But that's not the way it works and when he stepped out of his place to become like the Most High, it started a chain reaction that quickly spiraled out of control and ended up with an extrusion of the divine into this dark world, our current battleground. Because high angels are so close all it takes is a step outside their appointed resonance and there you go.

He envies her because she is one with God, he also desires her but his very touch destroys her and heaps more corruption upon himself, a vicious circle of torment. The mystery of iniquity, who can fathom it. IMO of course, I'm just making good guesses.

But yes, an ordinary human being, even though that human being has an immortal spirit, has no -- and I couldn't emphasize it enough -- no, zero chance against this being. All one can do is detach from effort and let our Lord do battle through him, them, and it's going to be a long one, with victories and defeats along the way.

 

[stranger]

Yes OF COURSE satan knows that he's going to hell.
There is nothing that he can do about it.
The only thing that he can do is to take as many human beings with him as he can !

..and the way that he does that is many fold. he comes from every direction.
he likes to divide us, of course .. that increases his power.
he comes through our desires, and causes us to be lustful and / or angry.
he also wants to hide the truth, so as he can manipulate us, and cause nations to fall along with him.

..oh so many ways he lies in wait for us.

The bending of reality, the planting of doubt, manipulation of weaknesses, divide and conquer; sure, makes sense.

+ + + + +

Yes @stranger .. love is the answer. However, denial of truth is not. The Mercy of God is greater than his wrath.
..however, without the concept of Godfearing, we cannot be successful.
Anybody who denies it becomes satan's dupe.

I believe you are right about that, but has to be more than law, must be life flowing through us. That's the key. No dead letter is going to do the job, only life flowing through us (due to our weakness, not strength). The temptation of legalism (trusting in effort, our own strength) is the illusion of power.

 

[muhammad_isa]

In spite of my dark nature and humor I am actually an eternal optimist. I can't say "permanently damaged", only damaged.

Yes .. I undestand what you mean. I didn't mean to imply that everybody that falls into "the pit of fire" will not be able to get out.
However, that does not mean that it will be easy to get out.
..and some will NOT get out .. they are the ones who are permanently damaged.

As I say, satan and those who intentionally follow him.
If this was not the case, then NOBODY would be in eternal torment, and that means that the NT is not a serious works.

 

[muhammad_isa]

..I believe you are right about that, but has to be more than law, must be life flowing through us. That's the key. No dead letter is going to do the job, only life flowing through us (due to our weakness, not strength). The temptation of legalism (trusting in effort, our own strength) is the illusion of power.

Yes .. not either / or. We need faith in the shema primarily .. but Jesus says that he has not come to cancel "the law".
We PARTICULARLY need to know what are major sins, for example.

eg. murder, adultery, profiteering

We cannot just sit back and make no effort to avoid sinning.

 

[stranger]

Somebody may say, that Love is all you need.
If one loves God with all his heart and all his being, then that is a complete faith.

One has to examine this carefully. What are we actually loving?
..well, of course, that would be our individual concept of what God is.
If one claims that "the law" has been superseeded, then we are left with "loving our neighbour" .. nothing else.
Is that sufficient to prevent satan from corrupting us? I would say not.
For example, we need to go to church, or be in the company of other believers etc.
..and oh, so much more.

I think one has to separate positional truth from experiential truth. In eternal position only can you say that the law (and I mean all forms of it) has been done away with and replaced by a new living way (love, a new heart of flesh replacing the heart of stone).

In experiential truth, and I mean what is happening in time, right now, the person might not be far enough along to break free of the constraints of law (and be governed by love only). But once one (and I'm going to use the Christian way here to illustrate) experiences his union with Christ, in suffering, death, and resurrection, his feet can be set on new ground where love rules.

Against real agape love, there is no law. Paul says, "the love of Christ constrains me". It's very powerful and active. It's not antinomianism by any means.

The concept of Godfearing is about the avoidance of sins.
Sins are about what is lawful and what is not.

Sure, but love doesn't really break law, it just escapes it's confines. The very capacity in man which seeks to be justified through effort has now been left in the grave and he has risen to newness of life.

 

[stranger]

Yes .. not either / or. We need faith in the shema primarily .. but Jesus says that he has not come to cancel "the law".
We PARTICULARLY need to know what are major sins, for example.

eg. murder, adultery, profiteering

We cannot just sit back and make no effort to avoid sinning.

Yes, but once again you are attempting to put resurrected life back under the confines of law, when in reality it has now both fulfilled and exceeded law. New life breathes free air. It's not turning back (the Galatian problem).

 

[muhammad_isa]

Sure, but love doesn't really break law, it just escapes it's confines. The very capacity in man which seeks to be justified through effort has now been left in the grave and he has risen to newness of life.
...
..once again you are attempting to put resurrected life back under the confines of law, when in reality it has now both fulfilled and exceeded law.

I don't believe that.
..so what is your concept of sin? Where does that come from? The ever changing opinions of secular society?

 

[stranger]

I don't believe that.
..so what is your concept of sin? Where does that come from? The ever changing opinions of secular society?

Comes from a corrupt and fallen place within, a part of the heart that is sick. Is it part of the spirit, or somehow attached to it? I don't know, all I can see is it comes from a very deep place within, a broken place.

Or perhaps you mean how do I know when I have sinned?

 

[muhammad_isa]

Comes from a corrupt and fallen place within, a part of the heart that is sick. Is it part of the spirit, or somehow attached to it? I don't know, all I can see is it comes from a very deep place within, a broken place.

I would say that it is our environment that causes our heart to be "sick".
If we see how the Anglican church, for example, has changed over the last few decades,
it is hardly recognisable.

Ordination of women .. ordination of gays and so forth.
This has come about due to thinking that the opinions of the society we live in are more important than "the Law".
Furthermore, the more we remember God, the closer we become to Him. This is a MAJOR weapon against satan.
Monks like Eckhart knew this [ hence daily prayer without fail ], and they did not take Biblical sin lightly.

 

[stranger]

I would say that it is our environment that causes our heart to be "sick".
If we see how the Anglican church, for example, has changed over the last few decades,
it is hardly recognisable.

I actually don't even know what the Anglican church is. I'm sure I've read something about it somewhere, might check wiki today if I have time. Environment, yes, but it only adds to/brings out a potential that was already there.

Ordination of women .. ordination of gays and so forth.
This has come about due to thinking that the opinions of the society we live in are more important than "the Law".
Furthermore, the more we remember God, the closer we become to Him. This is a MAJOR weapon against satan.
Monks like Eckhart knew this [ hence daily prayer without fail ], and they did not take Biblical sin lightly.

Fffft. I care not a whit about ordination. Ordinate until the cows come home, I say. All and sundry. What does this have to do with my path, with the fire of the living God? I no longer have to remember Him, He lives in me. I don't have to think like that anymore. I have no weapons against satan except what is inside me.