Is freewill real or just something we invented it ?

RabbiO said:
I believe that this rightly would be characterized as preaching/proselytizing. I don’t believe that is the sort of thing that the forum rules encourage, but I am sure @RJM will correct me if I am wrong.
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I honestly can't even read through it all. But on your recommendation @RabbiO , the post by @davidsheep88 is removed for mod decision ...
 
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I have no ill intent already an pm between is done, our conversation was in there.
 
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The question is our freedom gives choice to love God or disobey him like the fallen one ( Lucifer ) or use our position for Good and deny ourselevs and put things in God's hands. Our probablities that our universe creates tell us everything is decided for us and people argue that I have found verses that show he gaves us choice and we are the path to change our purpose that is all. Show me verses and literature.
 
Oaky no need fight i'm not looking for that i'm friends with Rabbio and he knows it ;D.
 
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The question is do animals have freewill and they can be part of choosing also ?


 
davidsheep88 said:


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@Aupmanyav cannot watch videos, David. It is better to post in your own words than to keep posting sting videos, imo. It feels like enough videos in this thread? Can't you post them on the video thread please?
 
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RJM said:
@Auomantav cannot watch vudeis, David. It is better to post in your own words than to keep jousting videos, imo. It feels like enough vudeis in this thread? Can't you post them on the video thread please?
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RJM, what was it? How many? :D
 
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davidsheep88 said:
The question is our freedom gives choice to love God or disobey him like the fallen one ( Lucifer ) or use our position for Good and deny ourselevs and put things in God's hands. Our probablities that our universe creates tell us everything is decided for us and people argue that I have found verses that show he gaves us choice and we are the path to change our purpose that is all. Show me verses and literature.
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Hello David.... :)
I don't even believe in an aware God, David, but since I don't believe in a real Lucifer either I shan't take too much notice of Your first sentence.
With regard to your second sentence, I know some Christians who believe that they were predestined to be what they are, and I know Christians that believe that they have free will, so Christianity can't help me much in this conversation.

One thing I do know...... the resident power here is the chaos of Nature, and you and I both, we live and die under the rule of 'Mother' Nature. Nature's every little (chaotic) wish you and I must both observe and obey, and I will be bending down to Nature's next requirement after sending this. :D

So we have some freedom, but within the bounds of Nature's chaotic existence.
 
Free will? We are certainly free to choose a path that we want. But whether we actually will be able to do it depends on so many factors, especially long-term choices, that actually choosing seems irrelevant. Even free will for short term seems unlikely. Reaching for a cup of evening tea in Japan? Sudden earthquake could tip it over and have you running for the door! If God controls everything but let's Man walk any path, he sure likes to crush the dreams of many hard-working people.

I realize many people like to believe they are in control of their future. But, to me at least, it seems much, if not all of life, is a gamble.
 
Vasu Devan said:
I realize many people like to believe they are in control of their future. But, to me at least, it seems much, if not all of life, is a gamble.
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Hi .. I don't think we can say it is "a gamble".
Quite obviously, there are a lot of things that we have no control over, as an individual, such as so-called "acts of God".
However, some of these "acts of God", such as floods and earthquakes, are happening due to something that we, collectively, are really responsible for.
i.e. climate-change

..so it is not just about our individual choices, but is about the choices we make as a community .. as a nation ... ...

"free-will" as given to us by God, refers to the individual choices that ARE in our control.
The decisions that we make every day, which affect us physically and spiritually.
Yes, our future is known by Almighty God, as He does not "live" in His created universe [ space-time continuum ].
Our free-will is not affected by the future being known by God .. the future is shaped by our choices.
..it is that God knows what we will choose.
 
muhammad_isa said:
Hi .. I don't think we can say it is "a gamble".

Our free-will is not affected by the future being known by God .. the future is shaped by our choices.
..it is that God knows what we will choose.
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While i can agree the future will be shaped by our choices, it cannot be free will if some entity already knows and judges the choice we will make. The future has to be uncertain for all awareness's(divine and earthly) to be free to choose.

Also if god already knows our choice, asking us to make a different choice makes no sense.


muhammad_isa said:
Yes, our future is known by Almighty God, as He does not "live" in His created universe [ space-time continuum ].
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How do you know this? Did your holy texts tell you? If so, where? Or was it a discovery in personal communication with God?
 
Vasu Devan said:
How do you know this? Did your holy texts tell you? If so, where? Or was it a discovery in personal communication with God?
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Scientific observation has established that the universe is a space-time continuum.

The operational definition of time does not address what the fundamental nature of it is. It does not address why events can happen forward and backward in space, whereas events only happen in the forward progress of time. Investigations into the relationship between space and time led physicists to define the spacetime continuum. General relativity is the primary framework for understanding how spacetime works. Through advances in both theoretical and experimental investigations of spacetime, it has been shown that time can be distorted and dilated, particularly at the edges of black holes.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Time

Almighty God has always "been" and always will be. i.e. He is Eternal.
He is completely independent of this physical creation which, by definition, is not eternal.
 
So many studies question our common assumptions of free will.

I think it can be done, but it takes concentration, focus and discipline, it's not just there because we're human.

When Jesus said "Father, forgive them, for they know not what they do" (Luke 23:34) that might well be a more profound insight than one might at first assume.
 
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