The Jewish Zohar Shekhinah and the Christian, & Mormon Holy Spirit

[PricelessPearl]

I agree with you from the point of view that our souls belong to God .. are from God.



You can't say "the created is God", imo.
Almighty God is not created, He is eternal.
It is possible to philosophize about male and female parts of God .. but it is quite meaningless really.
Male and female are a manifestation of the physical world .. the created world..
It is true that male and female have different natures .. it is none but God who gave ALL of his creatures the natures that they have.
That is why trying to "pin down" what God is in this way is rather futile .. He is of INFINITE nature.

Morning (for me it is anyway),
Nothing is created from the below. The below is the effect not the cause. I would call believing that the created world is in anyway the cause, source or foundation of existence living in Egypt (or bondage/ darkness). Spirit or consciousness is the cause, source and substance of all creation. I am probably coming across as rude, don’t mean to. And according to scripture- and everything I say is scripture- he who has the spirit of the Lord is one Spirit with him. Male and female aspects of God are principals, the way Consciousness acts or manifests, eg, force and form, male is directive or imparts and female brings forth or creates - self consciousness and sub consciousness (Adam and Eve). That’s why Christ is the head of man and man head of the woman- it’s Consciousness. Christ is our head - our divine self, divine reason or light (consciousness), he’s the inner man, the Lord from above vs Adam the fallen consciousness from below or carnal mind.

The flesh profiteth nothing, meaning the material world is never cause. It is the spirit that quickens.

sorry to go on and I must work. I’m a tad zealous.

We don’t live after the flesh and regard no man after the flesh (but we see the One Spirit or One Lord wearing the mask we mistaken as material).

 

[muhammad_isa]

..Spirit or consciousness is the cause, source and substance of all creation. I am probably coming across as rude, don’t mean to..

No. your're not being rude at all. You're just saying it how you see it.
..and yes .. I agree that Almighty God is spiritual and created and maintains the universe.

eg, force and form, male is directive or imparts and female brings forth or creates - self consciousness and sub consciousness (Adam and Eve).

Mmm, sort of .. but I wouldn't agree that Adam & Eve are allegorical. I believe that Genesis is an old scripture, and is not easy to understand due to the time span and consequent error.
However, I don't think that Adam & Eve necessarily were created as "magic" from the earth .. I acknowledge the part that evolution plays as Almighty God is the Evolver from nought. [ another more sophisticated way of looking at creation ]

The flesh profiteth nothing, meaning the material world is never cause. It is the spirit that quickens.

Indeed ! Spiritual awareness is priceless

 

[PricelessPearl]

No. your're not being rude at all. You're just saying it how you see it.
..and yes .. I agree that Almighty God is spiritual and created and maintains the universe.



Mmm, sort of .. but I wouldn't agree that Adam & Eve are allegorical. I believe that Genesis is an old scripture, and is not easy to understand due to the time span and consequent error.
However, I don't think that Adam & Eve necessarily were created as "magic" from the earth .. I acknowledge the part that evolution plays as Almighty God is the Evolver from nought. [ another more sophisticated way of looking at creation ]



Indeed ! Spiritual awareness is priceless

I wanted to reply to Adam and Eve comment but couldn’t get the reply to come up on my phone so will respond here.

To my mind, it’s allegory- the garden, the Lord, A&E and the serpent are a picture of every person; it’s how we are made - it’s a picture of God (or Consciousness) coming forth as man (man being male and female). We are Adam (or man) and Eve is our wife or woman, that which comes out of us (our body and personal life that is the projection, shadow, child, self identification, cast by Consciousness). The two are one although we aren’t our body or personal environment but we cleave to it. It is the appearance of Spirit or consciousness in the field of activity or form. To fall from grace is to eat or believe that the “facts” of the world, everything our senses report to us and base our reasoning on, has dominion over us or that we are the body - we identify as the created and not the creator. Instead of a consciousness that walks with the Lord in the garden we obtain a consciousness that is separated from God. We have a body and nature that is animalistic (animal skins) instead of holy and divine. And instead of having dominion over nature and creation (passions and infinite states of consciousness that are ours to embody or bring forth) we struggle and wrestle with the physical world believing we must fight to survive and obtain.

So we reap what we sow (consciousness brings forth according to its kind). And until we start to identify as Christ and claim all his attributes we remain fallen or dead or asleep.

A teacher I like said, God and man aren’t different entities but opposite poles of identifiers. Or Consciousness looking at itself from opposite ends (the creator and the created or cause and effect).

I should get back to work but this is more fun.

 

[stranger]

I should get back to work but this is more fun.

Tsk, tsk. Sorry PricelessPearl, I couldn't resist. Have no idea what was posted, everything looked like squiggly lines but this. Don't mean to badger you, please carry on.

 

[PricelessPearl]

Tsk, tsk. Sorry PricelessPearl, I couldn't resist. Have no idea what was posted, everything looked like squiggly lines but this. Don't mean to badger you, please carry on.

Hi Stranger, I really do need to work. God is my favourite subject and favourite thing, but I best get back to my work. Chat later

 

[muhammad_isa]

..the garden, the Lord, A&E and the serpent are a picture of every person..
..To fall from grace is to eat or believe that the “facts” of the world, everything our senses report to us and base our reasoning on, has dominion over us..

I see it in a much simpler way. They disobeyed Almighty God by listening to satan and had to suffer the consequences.
There is no "original sin" as God forgave them .. He is the Most Merciful, Forgiving.
I do understand what you mean about whether "the garden of Eden" is meant literally or spiritually, though.

And instead of having dominion over nature and creation (passions and infinite states of consciousness that are ours to embody or bring forth) we struggle and wrestle with the physical world believing we must fight to survive and obtain.

True .. if we concentrate on this worldly life, we can not achieve spiritual awareness and happiness. That does NOT mean that we should ignore our physical requirements and become an ascetic or beggar.
We have to earn our living [ try our best ]

 

[muhammad_isa]

@PricelessPearl
..so .. I'm trying to work out who taught you .. I'll hazard a guess .. err, a Methodist?

 

[PricelessPearl]

I see it in a much simpler way. They disobeyed Almighty God by listening to satan and had to suffer the consequences.
There is no "original sin" as God forgave them .. He is the Most Merciful, Forgiving.
I do understand what you mean about whether "the garden of Eden" is meant literally or spiritually, though.



True .. if we concentrate on this worldly life, we can not achieve spiritual awareness and happiness. That does NOT mean that we should ignore our physical requirements and become an ascetic or beggar.
We have to earn our living [ try our best ]

Um what I was trying to say is that our consciousness (mind, intellect, imagination aka spirit) creates our personal life, physical reality, and not the other way around.

 

[PricelessPearl]

@PricelessPearl
..so .. I'm trying to work out who taught you .. I'll hazard a guess .. err, a Methodist?

Lol, I don’t know the difference between a Methodist, Protestant, Baptist, Calvinist - I have a general knowledge of Catholic, JW, Mormon.

I have been blessed with many wonderful teachers. I belong to no church. I belong to Christ

 

[muhammad_isa]

Um what I was trying to say is that our consciousness (mind, intellect, imagination aka spirit) creates our personal life, physical reality, and not the other way around.

That's it.

Lol, I don’t know the difference between a Methodist, Protestant, Baptist, Calvinist - I have a general knowledge of Catholic, JW, Mormon.

It can become confusing

I belong to no church. I belong to Christ

I belong to God. I do not believe in a fully-human, fully-divine being.
However, I do believe in Christ [ the Messiah ], born of the virgin Mary.

 

[PricelessPearl]

That's it.



It can become confusing



I belong to God. I do not believe in a fully-human, fully-divine being.
However, I do believe in Christ [ the Messiah ], born of the virgin Mary.

I think my understanding of Christ might be different from yours. I don’t believe Jesus Christ was a man who walked the earth thousands of years ago. I believe he is God in every man, as well as that which comes forth as all creation. So yes, I am God’s. But by that I mean not identifying with my personal sense of self (or outer man, the sensual man) but identifying in a spiritual sense of self, in the One Self or Being- the Son of God.

And so yes I believe in the divinity of man, because who I am, and who every person in the world is, is Jesus Christ. And hence why he is the world Saviour. He is within us.

If I am to believe scripture, and I do, I am born of God (and the epistles are full of what having such an inheritance means)

 

[muhammad_isa]

I belong to no church..

Mmm .. sometimes I feel like that .. I become discouraged with others.
..but then, I'm sure that people become discouraged with me too

I am a Muslim, and my church consists of billions of people.
All praise is for God !
He guides whomsoever He wills.

..and yes .. we are all part of Him.

 

[ScholarlySeeker]

..and yes .. we are all part of Him.

The part is in the whole and the whole is in the part...... so we're all good.

 

[PricelessPearl]

Mmm .. sometimes I feel like that .. I become discouraged with others.
..but then, I'm sure that people become discouraged with me too

I am a Muslim, and my church consists of billions of people.
All praise is for God !
He guides whomsoever He wills.

..and yes .. we are all part of Him.

Well, I meant that I don’t belong to a religious sect or congregation. I am of the church of Christ (aka Body of Christ) which in it’s fullness is all humanity.

The Bible says that the Lord doesn’t dwell in temples made with hands- but we are the temple. Thanks for the chat.

 

[Thomas]

Respectfully, I don’t see how anyone could rise above a consciousness of separation (or fall from grace) without God being All. But, again, respectful, I hear you.

I would say God draws us out of ourselves unto Himself, as it were.

 

[Thomas]

I say Consciousness (I AM or YHVH) is the only thing there is ...

Well, as Shakespeare said, "There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in our philosophy." (Hamlet 1.5.167-8).

Consciousness, or more precisely the consciousness of self, is the peak and what defines human experience, but we must be cautious about projecting anthropomorphic categories onto the Godhead. It is the means by which we know or apprehend the Divine, but that does not necessarily determine that consciousness is what the Divine is.

Other would argue that love is over all, yet in Abrahamic metaphysics we image God as a being, and yer declare God is 'beyond-being' and transcends all the categories and qualities we see being to be. Likewise we talk of the Divine Nature, and yet God is not a nature as other natures are.

Christ praised simple, indeed 'blind faith' when He met it in His dialogue with the centurion (Matthew 8:5-15), and the author of Hebrews defined faith as "the substance of things to be hoped for, the evidence of things that appear not." (Hebrews 11:1). There is much to be garnered from the contemplation.

A focus on consciousness belongs to the 'cataphatic way', the via positiva – as you say, the way of image – and its counterpart is the apophatic, the via negativa. Some declare one superior to the other, but I rather see them as complementary, each counterbalancing the excesses of the other.

It's a matter of disposition.

 

[PricelessPearl]

Well, as Shakespeare said, "There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in our philosophy." (Hamlet 1.5.167-8).

Consciousness, or more precisely the consciousness of self, is the peak and what defines human experience, but we must be cautious about projecting anthropomorphic categories onto the Godhead. It is the means by which we know or apprehend the Divine, but that does not necessarily determine that consciousness is what the Divine is.

Other would argue that love is over all, yet in Abrahamic metaphysics we image God as a being, and yer declare God is 'beyond-being' and transcends all the categories and qualities we see being to be. Likewise we talk of the Divine Nature, and yet God is not a nature as other natures are.

Christ praised simple, indeed 'blind faith' when He met it in His dialogue with the centurion (Matthew 8:5-15), and the author of Hebrews defined faith as "the substance of things to be hoped for, the evidence of things that appear not." (Hebrews 11:1). There is much to be garnered from the contemplation.

A focus on consciousness belongs to the 'cataphatic way', the via positiva – as you say, the way of image – and its counterpart is the apophatic, the via negativa. Some declare one superior to the other, but I rather see them as complementary, each counterbalancing the excesses of the other.

It's a matter of disposition.

I am going to need to look up the meaning of a few of those words before I can give a half decent response.

I will say that our “human” consciousness is what is raised and the only way we have greater perceptions or revelations or visions is through consciousness. Our head is Christ, and we must discipline the aspects or attributes of our mind to always “follow him”, look up to the truth the he is our real self so that we don’t follow the world. We don’t get stuck in the consciousness of the world. The sense man, Adam, Esau, Cain - the one who is endlessly bombarded by the facts, information, limitations, emotional responses, wants (lusts) that the outer world never stops feeding us. Instead we live by faith in the indwelling Spirit- Jesus Christ (infinite, immortal, holy, perfect, righteous, pure, LOVE - and invisible ), who is who we are. And We wait for the invisible to become visible. We wait for the Son to reveal, of make known, the Father.

If I believe that Jesus Christ (who I say is Jehovah, personified) is my consciousness- albeit sitting much higher than my human consciousness- but he does fill all - and I believe that he is the creator of everything and rules all, that all things are mine in the Son of God, and creation happens from the above to the below, then faith is trusting that what I imagine and think about, what I speak about ( in my head or verbally), what I am constantly chewing on in my mind, will in time appear in my world. I don’t “lust” after the flesh (world). I live after the Spirit.

And with that I must get ready for work.

 

[PricelessPearl]

Consciousness, or more precisely the consciousness of self, is the peak and what defines human experience, but we must be cautious about projecting anthropomorphic categories onto the Godhead. It is the means by which we know or apprehend the Divine, but that does not necessarily determine that consciousness is what the Divine is.

I think it is absolutely fair to say we have no bloody idea what God is as God is infinite. But enough people are fascinated with, mesmerized with, in awe of, and in love with, what I will call Him. And I think that Him is our own being, which is infinite. We have visions and dreams and revelations- and He speaks to us. So we can’t say we don’t know God either.

As for not knowing that Consciousness is what the divine is; Jesus on the throne surrounded by the 4 living creatures (and you probably already know this), is (my understanding) the Lord (YHVH), Consciousness Itself (I AM) and the 4 ways or levels in which the Lord manifests into creation (or becomes flesh). Consciousness or Spirit appears as spiritual (the essence of itself), mental (mind), moral or ethical and physical (earth, 3D consciousness); also defined as fire, water, air and earth; the lion, the eagle, the man, the bull; Leo, Scorpio, Aquarius, Taurus- Y - H - V - H. (The Sphinx) All four are the One Lord. All 4, and the Lord seated on the throne, are us as He is seated within each and every one of us.

For me, there is only God in the world. He is the source and substance of all creation and I know Him as Consciousness (whether it is mind, spirit, light, imagination, intelligence, love, desire or will or the effect it produces called physical manifestation)

Back to work.

 

[ScholarlySeeker]

I'm a Catholic symbolist, for me symbol is everything.

Uh oh, then you're missing the point of symbolism. It points to what is beyond it, it is not the end, but the means.... don't concretize the symbol and metaphor you miss the point of it all.....it's like looking at the finger pointing to the moon, the master will slap ya upside the head my friend! GRIN!

 

[ScholarlySeeker]

As for not knowing that Consciousness is what the divine is; Jesus on the throne surrounded by the 4 living creatures (and you probably already know this), is (my understanding) the Lord (YHVH), Consciousness Itself (I AM) and the 4 ways or levels in which the Lord manifests into creation (or becomes flesh). Consciousness or Spirit appears as spiritual (the essence of itself), mental (mind), moral or ethical and physical (earth, 3D consciousness); also defined as fire, water, air and earth; the lion, the eagle, the man, the bull; Leo, Scorpio, Aquarius, Taurus- Y - H - V - H. (The Sphinx) All four are the One Lord. All 4, and the Lord seated on the throne, are us as He is seated within each and every one of us.

Heh, that's not bad actually, I like it!