The Jewish Zohar Shekhinah and the Christian, & Mormon Holy Spirit

ScholarlySeeker said:
God is still ultimately responsible.....otherwise it WOULD be different.
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Of course .. that is correct .. Almighty God is responsible for everything.
..but that does not mean that we are not responsible for our own deeds.

Almighty God knows ALL. He knows who will be "saved" and who will not.
Again, that does not mean that God chooses who will be saved .. He wrongs nobody.
We wrong ourselves.
 
:confused:o_O You lost me at good cop bad cop, but yeah, that's pretty expansive and somewhat mind-blowing.
 
stranger said:
:confused:o_O You lost me at good cop bad cop, but yeah, that's pretty expansive and somewhat mind-blowing.
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Still needs a little more cowbell somehow though? Can't quite put my finger on it... more heart? Not sure.
 
stranger said:
:confused:o_O You lost me at good cop bad cop..
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@RJM Corbet is a master on this one.
He reminds us that the created universe is in fact a space-time continuum.
i.e. time as measured by clocks is part of the creation [ Einsteinian relativity ]

That is the "mechanism" that allows God to be independent / outside of time.
It means that Almighty God can know about the future, without it affecting our free-will.
Do you get that?
 
muhammad_isa said:
@RJM Corbet is a master on this one.
He reminds us that the created universe is in fact a space-time continuum.
i.e. time as measured by clocks is part of the creation [ Einsteinian relativity ]

That is the "mechanism" that allows God to be independent / outside of time.
It means that Almighty God can know about the future, without it affecting our free-will.
Do you get that?
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Sure, and welcome it. So the heart knows the way. Or in other words, follow the heart/intuition? The heart opens it's own doors? Does that make sense? Doesn't need doors perhaps? I know... You really can't make this stuff up.
 
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muhammad_isa said:
Of course .. that is correct .. Almighty God is responsible for everything.
..but that does not mean that we are not responsible for our own deeds.

Almighty God knows ALL. He knows who will be "saved" and who will not.
Again, that does not mean that God chooses who will be saved .. He wrongs nobody.
We wrong ourselves.
Click to expand...
To my mind, everyone is saved, God won’t forsake any. What isn’t saved is the false perception of self or any outworn beliefs and ideas one may hold of oneself.

The Son of God is the only one to descend and to ascend (and the “saved” are those who abide in Him, and we all do). Salvation isn’t a matter of works, but grace, for me. Being good doesn’t get me into heaven any more than being bad keeps me out. Life in the Holy Spirit is the only way which is by faith. The only One good enough to enter heaven is God.
 
PricelessPearl said:
To my mind, everyone is saved, God won’t forsake any. What isn’t saved is the false perception of self or any outworn beliefs and ideas one may hold of oneself.

The Son of God is the only one to descend and to ascend (and the “saved” are those who abide in Him, and we all do). Salvation isn’t a matter of works, but grace, for me. Being good doesn’t get me into heaven any more than being bad keeps me out. Life in the Holy Spirit is the only way which is by faith. The only One good enough to enter heaven is God.
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Hi PricelessPearl, I agree. We want those things to go even if it is a bit painful. It's a good thing, we don't lose anything really, just become more ourselves.
 
muhammad_isa said:
So what about the passages in the Bible,
that say that Jesus is reported to have said that some people will be in eternal fire?
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The law has to have teeth in order to be law, hence eternal fire. Eternal judgement can't be taken back, it stands eternally. The question is will spirits remain in that eternal fire eternally? Or is there something in there which cannot be destroyed by eternal fire?

He ascended, but first descended, leading captivity captive. Preached, proclaimed his work to spirits in prison. They were judged once, as in the type of the flood, in which only a few were saved by the ark. He spoke to each one, as the eternal spirit, spirit to spirit, saying "come forth". This is the depth of his love.
 
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stranger said:
The law has to have teeth in order to be law, hence eternal fire. Eternal judgement can't be taken back, it stands eternally. The question is will spirits remain in that eternal fire eternally? Or is there something in their which cannot be destroyed?
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Personally, I think that it is something to do with the nature of souls.
I think that souls are eternal, and like Almighty God, cannot be created or destroyed. They are "part of Him", for want of a better phrase.

In that case, it is not a question of a loving God treating us like this or that .. it is a question of reality.
..just like in this life, we experience pleasure and pain .. and God allows that .. why should universal "law" suddenly cease?
 
muhammad_isa said:
So what about the passages in the Bible,
that say that Jesus is reported to have said that some people will be in eternal fire?
Click to expand...
Life is fire. A constant burning, purifying. There is no such thing as eternal damnation for anyone however the state of damnation (lack, loss) is eternal. All states are eternal- we move in and out of them (I’m talking about Consciousness).

For me, That Which Is seated at the Center of me, and comes forth on a mental, moral/ethical and physical level as me, can never be consumed by the flames.
 
@PricelessPearl Can you explain this, please?

38 The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one;
39 The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels.
40 As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world.

41 The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity;
42 And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.
43 Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Who hath ears to hear, let him hear.
- Matthew 13 -
 
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53 And it came to pass, that when Jesus had finished these parables, he departed thence.
54 And when he was come into his own country, he taught them in their synagogue, insomuch that they were astonished, and said, Whence hath this man this wisdom, and these mighty works?
55 Is not this the carpenter's son? is not his mother called Mary? and his brethren, James, and Joses, and Simon, and Judas?

56 And his sisters, are they not all with us? Whence then hath this man all these things?
57 And they were offended in him. But Jesus said unto them, A prophet is not without honour, save in his own country, and in his own house.
- Matthew 13 -
 
44 Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee?
45 Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me.
46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.
- Matthew 25 -
 
muhammad_isa said:
@PricelessPearl Can you explain this, please?

38 The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one;
39 The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels.
40 As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world.

41 The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity;
42 And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.
43 Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Who hath ears to hear, let him hear.
- Matthew 13 -
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Yes I can. For anyone who cannot I would suggest that they read Paul’s teachings on Esau being hated and Jacob being loved; and Sinai being the mother of the children of the world and Jerusalem being the mother of the children of God; and Adam the first born through which sin entered the world and the second Adam, or the Lord from above as that one which takes away the sin of the world.

As long as one identifies as the outer man, a separate individual and separate from God, and thinks he has any power of his own and is doing anything of his own accord, then that one is the one destined for damnation, he is the son of perdition. We are the second born destined to rule the first born (the first born among the living). One lives after the flesh, the second after the Spirit.

I will look at your other post later. I’m going out.
 
muhammad_isa said:
Personally, I think that it is something to do with the nature of souls.
I think that souls are eternal, and like Almighty God, cannot be created or destroyed. They are "part of Him", for want of a better phrase.

In that case, it is not a question of a loving God treating us like this or that .. it is a question of reality.
..just like in this life, we experience pleasure and pain .. and God allows that .. why should universal "law" suddenly cease?
Click to expand...

I think you already know that is too cold. It's love AND a part of him, but God is love, is he not? Got to get that back in there. What law? Against love there is no law. "I will write my law in their hearts, etc." (paraphrase)
 
muhammad_isa said:
44 Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee?
45 Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me.
46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.
- Matthew 25 -
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My ride isn’t here yet.

This is talking about states of consciousness. Ignorance vs illumination. Separation from God to understand that there is only Jesus Christ in this world. And the only way one obtains that awareness is by God himself (working in you). All false knowledge, darkness, ignorance will be removed. Any aspect of one’s mind or imagination that is not disciplined unto Christ will eventually be destroyed. I am talking about Consciousness. We are Consciousness (or Spirit); and we are all One Being.
 
PricelessPearl said:
Life is fire. A constant burning, purifying. There is no such thing as eternal damnation for anyone however the state of damnation (lack, loss) is eternal. All states are eternal- we move in and out of them (I’m talking about Consciousness).

For me, That Which Is seated at the Center of me, and comes forth on a mental, moral/ethical and physical level as me, can never be consumed by the flames.
Click to expand...

Mental, moral, ethical, physical? *slaps self on forehead*
 
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