The Jewish Zohar Shekhinah and the Christian, & Mormon Holy Spirit

[PricelessPearl]

Heh, that's not bad actually, I like it!

And it’s the truth (wink emoji)

 

[Cino]

As for not knowing that Consciousness is what the divine is;

If someone in their ignorance worships their own consciousness, what is it that is deified (or idolized, or sanctified)?

 

[muhammad_isa]

If someone in their ignorance worships their own consciousness..

You mean, worships themselves?

 

[PricelessPearl]

If someone in their ignorance worships their own consciousness, what is it that is deified (or idolized, or sanctified)?

I don’t know if I understand your question. I’ll take a stab.

My understanding is that Consciousness is God, including our consciousness. It’s just on a much lower level- 3D senseman level. So Christ is coming forth in us as us. He is asleep in man and awakens. He is also seated on the throne within us as he descended into creation, died (went to sleep), rose and ascended- in other words, he fills all of creation. Is Lord over all.

It’s realizing that he is actually the one looking through our eyes (Hazel - God sees).

For me, it’s constant retraining of my mind. Constant training to know I am spirit, and I am in (Indivisible from) the Spirit of God. It’s not really my consciousness, it’s God’s. And it’s his work going on in me. To stop identifying as the limited “physical “ being and identify with the Holy Spirit ( in which all is mine).

For the kingdom of God is not meat and drink; but righteousness and peace and joy in the Holy Ghost. Romans 14:17

 

[muhammad_isa]

It’s not really my consciousness, it’s God’s.

Yes .. you're absolutely right. Our souls belong to God.
We don't really own anything .. it is all "on loan" as it were.
We all have to return from whence we came.

However, we do have our own unique identity.

 

[PricelessPearl]

Yes .. you're absolutely right. Our souls belong to God.
We don't really own anything .. it is all "on loan" as it were.
We all have to return from whence we came.

However, we do have our own unique identity.

We do have a unique identity. As I’ve been taught, God puts a whole lot of effort into forming and developing each one of us.

I don’t look at it as being on loan, although I understand what you are saying. I look at it as false identification of self vs true identification (or realization) of self.

 

[muhammad_isa]

I don’t look at it as being on loan..

What I meant, is that we have a sense of feeling independent while living in this world.
..that things belong to us .. and our worldly lives our "ours".
However, we have to "return to God" ALONE, and we can only take our deeds with us .. nothing else.

What is the source of evil, do you think?

 

[PricelessPearl]

What I meant, is that we have a sense of feeling independent while living in this world.
..that things belong to us .. and our worldly lives our "ours".
However, we have to "return to God" ALONE, and we can only take our deeds with us .. nothing else.

What is the source of evil, do you think?

I define evil as ignorance (lack of light) and the only cause or source of anything to be God.

 

[muhammad_isa]

I define evil as ignorance (lack of light) and the only cause or source of anything to be God.

Isn't it a bit more complex than that?
Ignorance is a lack of knowledge, isn't it?

I would agree that evil can be caused by ignorance i.e. somebody does bad deeds unintentionally
..but what about the case of a person who purposely kills and robs others?
Surely, that is not just a "lack of knowledge" .. that is choosing to commit evil.

 

[PricelessPearl]

Isn't it a bit more complex than that?
Ignorance is a lack of knowledge, isn't it?

I would agree that evil can be caused by ignorance i.e. somebody does bad deeds unintentionally
..but what about the case of a person who purposely kills and robs others?
Surely, that is not just a "lack of knowledge" .. that is choosing to commit evil.

I need to go pick up my pizza so this will be short. It’s a huge topic and I am sure others know more on it than I do. However, I would classify poverty, disease, jealousy, hatred, coveting, murder, etc all as evil and sin; and sin is an act of the mind (or consciousness).

I don’t think we ever choose- again it comes down to understanding who is really doing the choosing (I believe God plays all the part (what we call good and evil), and we are His masks.) What his plans and ways and reasons are, I won’t begin to guess. Why people are driven to “make the choices “ that they make, based on all the events and impressions and dimensions of their soul, I can’t judge. And people aren’t what they do. They are expressing the state of consciousness that they are embodying. We aren’t the state of consciousness, we are consciousness itself which has identified itself as whatever we believe life and ourselves to be.

 

[Cino]

I hope you enjoyed the pizza!

However, I would classify poverty, disease, jealousy, hatred, coveting, murder, etc all as evil and sin; and sin is an act of the mind (or consciousness).

Whoa! Slow down, I'm losing track!

Are you saying to be poor or ill is to be sinful? Or to exploit people so they stay poor is a sin? Or that poverty is an act of God (= consciousness, if I understand you correctly), i.e. God is committing a sinful act?

I assume you don't, but this is what I read. I'm genuinely confused, not asking a facetious question here.

 

[Cino]

For me, it’s constant retraining of my mind. Constant training to know I am spirit, and I am in (Indivisible from) the Spirit of God.

I see, thanks for explaining.

Someone not willing to do all the hard work and training might hold this the other way, with bad results. Have you come across such persons?

 

[stranger]

I see, thanks for explaining.

Someone not willing to do all the hard work and training might hold this the other way, with bad results. Have you come across such persons?

Hi Cino, hopefully this won't be too much of an interruption. I have run into such a person before, namely myself. But that is not really by choice, I have actually worked hard but simply lack the abilities displayed by many of our fine denizens of interfaith here. Seeing that I could never measure up, I chose rather to let my weakness regarding intelligence and scholarship be plainly seen, hoping these awful shortcomings might somehow be used by God for his glory. Along these lines, I take comfort in these words from 1 Corinthians:

1 Corinthians 19-29

19 For it is written, I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, and will bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent.

20 Where is the wise? where is the scribe? where is the disputer of this world? hath not God made foolish the wisdom of this world?

21 For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.

22 For the Jews require a sign, and the Greeks seek after wisdom:

23 But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumblingblock, and unto the Greeks foolishness;

24 But unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God.

25 Because the foolishness of God is wiser than men; and the weakness of God is stronger than men.

26 For ye see your calling, brethren, how that not many wise men after the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called:

27 But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty;

28 And base things of the world, and things which are despised, hath God chosen, yea, and things which are not, to bring to nought things that are:

29 That no flesh should glory in his presence.

So I think we have to be wary in judging those who seem to be lazy and untrained. It could be they are just doing the best they can, and we have to consider the fact that these weak ones might even be able to show forth the wisdom of God better than their highly trained and polished counterparts. Just a thought.

 

[Cino]

So I think we have to be wary in judging those who seem to be lazy and untrained. It could be they are just doing the best they can, and we have to consider the fact that these weak ones might even be able to show forth the wisdom of God better than their highly trained and polished counterparts. Just a thought.

Absolutely, I agree.

The training and hard work I was referring to, and @PricelessPearl as well, if I understood her correctly, is just the attitude expounded in the epistle you quoted.

There's a tendency in us (I think it's universal) to take an insight such as the one about consciousness, and try to make it real, rather than go looking for it in reality.

The latter takes a lot of work, digging up the field to find the treasure, in Gospel language.

The former is an exercise in, let's call it vanity. Make pretend. And it can even happen that we buy into our own pretension, believe in it. Idolatry, in a sense.

I hope I'm coming across as intended, this is tricky territory, especially in a forum thread. All in my opinion and open to discussion.

 

[muhammad_isa]

There's a tendency in us (I think it's universal) to take such an insight as the one about consciousness, and try to make it real, rather than go looking for it in reality. The latter takes a lot of work, digging up the field to find the treasure, in Gospel language. The former is an exercise in, let's call it vanity. Make pretend. And it can even happen that we buy into our own pretension, believe in it. Idolatry, in a sense. I hope I'm coming across as intended, this is tricky territory, especially in a forum thread.

This is a complex topic [ as @PricelessPearl said about evil ]
What does it mean for a person to have soul?
In layman's terms, it might be a reference to emotional understanding.

..so this is it, I think. There is the world of academia, which is highly valuable to us.
..and there is also the world of spiritual mysticism [ derived from our soul / consciousness ]

We need both. Coherence is not only necessary in science,
it is also necessary in ANY belief [ what we consider to be fact ]

 

[ScholarlySeeker]

Isn't it a bit more complex than that?
Ignorance is a lack of knowledge, isn't it?

I would agree that evil can be caused by ignorance i.e. somebody does bad deeds unintentionally
..but what about the case of a person who purposely kills and robs others?
Surely, that is not just a "lack of knowledge" .. that is choosing to commit evil.

Well, if God wanted to, he could choose NOT to let a committed evil occur, so who IS responsible for evil? How come evil even exists if GOd is ultimately in control, the key word is control...

 

[ScholarlySeeker]

This is a complex topic [ as @PricelessPearl said about evil ]
What does it mean for a person to have soul?
In layman's terms, it might be a reference to emotional understanding.

..so this is it, I think. There is the world of academia, which is highly valuable to us.
..and there is also the world of spiritual mysticism [ derived from our soul / consciousness ]

We need both. Coherence is not only necessary in science,
it is also necessary in ANY belief [ what we consider to be fact ]

Very good observation... We humans love to have things neat and tidy, which, however, they seldom are. Coherence in either science, academia or religion has never been totally achieved. We are forced to live with problems, and contradictions all the time. We have actually gotten good at it - GRIN!

 

[PricelessPearl]

Well, if God wanted to, he could choose NOT to let a committed evil occur, so who IS responsible for evil? How come evil even exists if GOd is ultimately in control, the key word is control...

God.

See now that I, even I, am he, and there is no god with me: I kill and I make alive, I wound, and I heal: neither is there any that can deliver out of my hands.

What I was saying- and how I aim to orient my life, is that we create our lives. We are the power that is animating our lives, either for good or bad. We are consciousness, mind, imagination and our lives are a testament to what goes on in our minds (what we put through the wine press).

So the entire world shows us, or is a display of, the misuses of imagination and speech (and the feelings we feed into it).

My path, the direction I am going on my path - God, Jesus Christ is Imagination and imagination is the only creative power in the universe. It’s consciousness, light, in physical form it’s sunlight.

So there is within imagination or God, every possible conceivability and we can animate (as spirit, the animating power, life itself) whatever we choose. But that takes discipline because we are subconsciously driven.

We aren’t to live after the flesh (or the effect, the transitory, that which appears in the field of time and space, our wife) but after the Spirit which is what we are.

 

[muhammad_isa]

Well, if God wanted to, he could choose NOT to let a committed evil occur, so who IS responsible for evil?

Oh .. not that one again !
Do we have free-will or not? I say we do.
Could God have made us Divine automatons? Yes, he could.
..but quite clearly, He didn't. I'm quite sure that there is a good reason for it.

 

[ScholarlySeeker]

Oh .. not that one again !
Do we have free-will or not? I say we do.
Could God have made us Divine automatons? Yes, he could.
..but quite clearly, He didn't. I'm quite sure that there is a good reason for it.

Lol, O.K., but God is still ultimately responsible.....otherwise it WOULD be different.