Aupmanyav
Be your own guru.
Just as a chameleon is about to regrow its tail, I suppose the neural system of earthworms also can regenerate its brain (though I am not an authority on the subject).
Evolution is Unscientific
- Thread starter SufiPhilosophy
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Aupmanyav
Be your own guru.
Humans do a lot of unnecessary things. News of the world is important, because we take it into account while voting and that shapes our destiny and that of the world.
juantoo3
....whys guy.... ʎʇıɹoɥʇnɐ uoıʇsǝnb
In other words, no survival advantage for reading? 
juantoo3
....whys guy.... ʎʇıɹoɥʇnɐ uoıʇsǝnb
Aupmanyav
Be your own guru.
Perhaps there is, even in Shakespeare. Fiction builds scenarios, which may have benefit in living. Religious scriptures too carry that in addition to extolling their God/Gods and Godmen.In other words, no survival advantage for reading?
juantoo3
....whys guy.... ʎʇıɹoɥʇnɐ uoıʇsǝnb
Written words are not required to imagine fictional scenarios...that has been an underlying point of mine all along.
Religious scriptures are morality plays, a means of conveying moral lessons in an abstract, symbolic manner to others using the same or similar symbolic methods of reasoning. While this serves a distinct purpose, it is in no way required, and persons are fully capable of leading a moral life without ever reading a word.
Education is fine, and certainly has a place, but is overrated. Too often now what passes as education is indoctrination and propaganda. Despite any rhetoric to the contrary, children are not taught how to think, they are taught what to think. Today, dissenting opinions and contrary thoughts are vigorously discouraged...that is nothing to do with genuine education.
In short, there is no clear evolutionary survival advantage to abstract thought. There is no clear environmental cause for developing abstract thought. In terms of evolution, abstract thought "suddenly appeared" in humans without any discernable cause.
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Aupmanyav
Be your own guru.
All people cannot write what Shakespeare wrote or what Valmiki or VedaVyasa wrote (Ramayana and Mahabharata). Some people have a special gift of imagination. Those who claim to be messengers of God also have this gift. So yes, we have imagination, but not of that kind.
Agree with you. Some people are helped by scriptures. Not everyone has that fine understanding.
You may be talking of religious schools. Do you think the big names, Harvard, Yale, MIT, Stanford, Princeton, Berkeley, etc. pass propaganda, indoctrination, falsehood as education?
Nothing happens 'suddenly' in evolution. It is step-by-step progression.
juantoo3
....whys guy.... ʎʇıɹoɥʇnɐ uoıʇsǝnb
Today? Yes.
How many articles from the past 3 years' news regarding certain students being afraid (literally - fear) to speak aloud an alternative position would you require to demonstrate this? This is not education, and this is not science, when voices are cowed into silence.
Punctuated equilibrium - Wikipedia
Paleontologists Niles Eldredge and Stephen Jay Gould disproved that more than 50 years ago. It is yet another rebuke of education that Darwin's one speed treadmill still gets trotted out as fact when the evidence contradicts that argument distinctly and distinctively.
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TheLightWithin
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Conveying information, which could enhance survival of adults long enough to reproduce, and survival of more children who then go on to reproduce and spread genes.In other words, no survival advantage for reading?
juantoo3
....whys guy.... ʎʇıɹoɥʇnɐ uoıʇsǝnb
Can be done vocally, and by demonstration. Learn by doing.
More, consider it is the female that tends to be more cunning. Males are simply brute power in an animal situation. Females have to finesse their way thru life, so it seems to me. Suggests to me the female of the species is the one to first "have their eyes opened."
<duck and run for cover>
TheLightWithin
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Can be done vocally, and by demonstration. Learn by doing.
More, consider it is the female that tends to be more cunning. Males are simply brute power in an animal situation. Females have to finesse their way thru life, so it seems to me. Suggests to me the female of the species is the one to first "have their eyes opened."
<duck and run for cover>
Cunning enhances reproductive fitness for anyone I would suppose
Hence politics (group decision making to manage human behavior and scarce resources, strategizing for survival and flourishing, gaining power to further cement control over behaviors and resources etc)
Re Evolutionary psychology
Gordon G. Gallup - Wikipedia
It explains a lot and most of my understanding of evolutionary psychology comes from taking his class 20 years ago.
I'm sure there are updated nuances.
He does do a lot of research about male female differences in reproductive strategy.
It was more practical and interesting than say the trite overblown and lazy gender stereotypes that pundits fall back on.
I don't know if his research touches things like gender variance or anything. It would be timely but he was talking a lot about reproductive strategy to get genes into the next generation when I took his class.
juantoo3
....whys guy.... ʎʇıɹoɥʇnɐ uoıʇsǝnb
Prof Gallup sounds like an interesting guy. The mirror test studies sound interesting.
Cunning enhances reproductive fitness for anyone I would suppose
Hence politics (group decision making to manage human behavior and scarce resources, strategizing for survival and flourishing, gaining power to further cement control over behaviors and resources etc)
Re Evolutionary psychology
I took his class when I went back to take some classes pre-grad school.Gordon G. Gallup - Wikipedia
en.wikipedia.org
It explains a lot and most of my understanding of evolutionary psychology comes from taking his class 20 years ago.
I'm sure there are updated nuances.
He does do a lot of research about male female differences in reproductive strategy.
It was more practical and interesting than say the trite overblown and lazy gender stereotypes that pundits fall back on.
I don't know if his research touches things like gender variance or anything. It would be timely but he was talking a lot about reproductive strategy to get genes into the next generation when I took his class.
TheLightWithin
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He definitely had a distinctive speaking style that made lectures memorable.
Aupmanyav
Be your own guru.
What kind of alternative positions? What disciplines? I am not aware of such a progrom.
So what is wrong with that and did Darwin proposed one speed treadmill? Change generally occurs in reply to changes in environment. Crocs were not always crocs and will not remain crocs for all future. There are 18 species of crocodiles and some more are suggested. How did they come about?
Crocodile - Wikipedia
Reptile - Wikipedia
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juantoo3
....whys guy.... ʎʇıɹoɥʇnɐ uoıʇsǝnb
Respectfully...are you not conflating issues? Originally you stated, and I quote: "Do you think the big names, Harvard, Yale, MIT, Stanford, Princeton, Berkeley, etc. pass propaganda, indoctrination, ... as education?"
Regardless if this is directly associated or related to discussions of evolution, the fact remains that free thinking is heavily discouraged, in ALL disciplines. If someone voices an opinion on a university campus that is contrary to the political zeitgeist (which includes but is not limited to religion / belief in G!d) they are vigorously shouted down, and even ostracized and dismissed from campus. I can provide article after article in support of this statement, it is an ongoing travesty in our universities as of this moment in time.
That isn't education, and that isn't science, when alternate views are not at least given opportunity for consideration. Maybe there is merit, maybe there isn't, but dismissing out of hand without fair consideration is the mark of communism.
Then why did you revert to already amended reasoning as "fact" in your counter to my comments?So what is wrong with that and did Darwin proposed one speed treadmill? Change generally occurs in reply to changes in environment. Crocs were not always crocs and will not remain crocs for all future. There are 18 species of crocodiles and some more are suggested. How did they come about?
"Living reptiles comprise four orders: Testudines (turtles), Crocodilia (crocodilians), Squamata (lizards and snakes), and Rhynchocephalia (the tuatara). As of May 2023, about 12,000 living species of reptiles are listed in the Reptile Database."Crocodile - Wikipedia
Reptile - Wikipedia
If you accept that Eldredge and Gould are correct, then why use outdated and clearly erroneous reasoning to counter what I said?
Allow me now to return to the statement that brought this about:
I repeat now for emphasis, now that you are in clear agreement with Eldredge and Gould (as I am): "In short, there is no clear evolutionary survival advantage to abstract thought. There is no clear environmental cause for developing abstract thought. In terms of evolution, abstract thought 'suddenly appeared' in humans without any discernable cause."
Aupmanyav
Be your own guru.
If it did not benefit humans, it would not have come up. That is, IMHO, the law of evolution. Abstract thought is the fuzzy function of brain. That is necessary for surviving difficult situations. The relation may not be very clear. Again, I would say that nothing evolutionary happens suddenly.
juantoo3
....whys guy.... ʎʇıɹoɥʇnɐ uoıʇsǝnb
That is an inaccurate presumption. Politely, you are digging in your heels rather than looking at the facts.
In the span of approx one thousand years, humans went from living in caves in hunter/gatherer tribes, to building walled cities and growing crops in a more cooperative society, along with an explosion of "knowledge" that included math and writing, astronomy, the wheel, and war as an art.
There is no way to honestly and justifiably deny this as Punctuated Equilibrium as applied to human evolution.
In terms of evolution, a thousand years is "suddenly."
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Aupmanyav
Be your own guru.
I do not deny 'Punctuated Equilibrium'. There is a stage of statis till evolution and environment are in step. Once that equilibrium is not there, things start happening. Environment demands changes. When that is not fulfilled, the species do not survive. There could also be an 'immediate call' as perhaps it happened with dinosaurs and they failed to comply with it. Perhaps the best thing for apes now is to come forward and shake hands with humans.
talib-al-kalim
Well-Known Member
They are kosher & halal as an exception. You can really eat them.
talib-al-kalim
Well-Known Member
You always see the negative aspects. A good shaman, priest, rabbi, guru, prophet, imam will search to heal and strengthen the soul. There are and have always been those who just profited from their position and those who take their task serious.