Any anti vax/mask/virus hoaxers here?

...the possibility of a naturally occurring pandemic justified gain of function research and benefit of such research outweighed the risks.
You do realize this virus is artificial, it is manmade, it is modified....it is not a natural variant. That's how it was spotted, a virologist in a clinic found the virus had been modified, and with a bit of research realized it was a laboratory modification. Gain of function research *caused* this pandemic, intentional or otherwise is largely irrelevant for the moment...although if proven to be intentional it would in fact be an act of war. At the very least, those responsible are criminally culpable of now millions of murders.
 
I don't think it's a secretive cabal conspiracy to profit, or to impose a new world order, etc. I think there are cover-ups -- for various motives -- that may come to light eventually. Also think there will always be some people to find a way to profit.

But overall I think it's an event which has overtaken the whole world by surprise and that governments and nations are trying to find their own way to deal with it. They can't be seen to just let people die. There are angles and politicking every which way around covid.

Truth as always probably somewhere around the middle, imo
 
You do realize this virus is artificial, it is manmade, it is modified....it is not a natural variant. That's how it was spotted, a virologist in a clinic found the virus had been modified, and with a bit of research realized it was a laboratory modification. Gain of function research *caused* this pandemic, intentional or otherwise is largely irrelevant for the moment...although if proven to be intentional it would in fact be an act of war. At the very least, those responsible are criminally culpable of now millions of murders.
What has this to with the efficacy and sensibility of using the vaccine to halt its current progress a d reduce future impact?
 
What has this to with the efficacy and sensibility of using the vaccine to halt its current progress a d reduce future impact?
People are afraid of long term health effects, or of thalidomide type birth defects. The vaccines have been rushed out after minimal testing. Not unreasonable fears, official assurances to the contrary?

That excludes those who are afriad of being injected with nano-bots, etc.
 
An ER doc friend told me last night...that she had seen enough death from the bug. If the short term risk....death...aint enough. And know that the long term risk we know of from getting covid supersede the long term effects from any vaccine ever.
 
But the majority of young and middle aged people do not believe their risk of death or serious illness is high from covid. The elderly have little to lose by getting vaccinated. For young and working age the vaccination becomes more of a social responsibility than a personal one. And they may regard the unknown risks of the vaccine as not worth it?

These are not spurious arguments, with a virus that causes death or serious illness in only a very small percentage of cases, and that in an age group beyond normal life expectancy?

It becomes a social responsibility and pressure for the young and working age to get vaccinated, with a rushed-out and minimally tested drug, to protect mostly the retired and elderly.

Just arguing the dark side ...
 
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The number of people I kow who have been hospitalized and/or died from this virus is increasing and getting younger... A 20 something is recovering from a 2 month stay in ICU
 
The number of people I kow who have been hospitalized and/or died from this virus is increasing and getting younger... A 20 something is recovering from a 2 month stay in ICU
Has the main demographic substantially changed since the start?
 
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Yup...delta is lowering the age.

In her mid 20s I believe, juggling friend.

I've talked before about my experience having COVID and being in the hospital for two months. Let me tell you about the two months I've experienced since being discharged.

When I was sent home, I was given a list of medical appointments to make as follow ups. I had physical therapy, occupational therapy, speech therapy, and home nursing coming to my apartment every week. I was still seeing doctors and going to the hospital multiple times a week. Some of the departments I was supposed to contact were and are so inundated that appointments I was told to make a week or a month after discharge, were pushed back as far as three months.

While I was intubated for three weeks and immobilized for longer due to my serotonin syndrome and medication withdrawal, I developed a bed sore on my tail bone. While hospitalized it was treated as a minor wound, one that I would just have to redress every few days at home. And then a month went past and suddenly I was in severe pain.

I had developed a serious infection, or rather, discovered one, because according to my mother's accounts of my time intubated, I ran a fever so high they were concerned about organ damage and I had to be put on IV antibiotics. It's possible this infection had been festering for months.

I was in and out of the ER. I had to make appointments with wound care, infectious diseases, surgical consults, medical imaging. I was on antibiotics for three weeks. It's been a month now since I realized there was something wrong and now I'm finally being told that I may need to have surgery to completely open the wound and clear out infected tissue.

This is all on top of still dealing with my post covid symptoms. I still can't walk long distances or for long periods of time without getting out of breath. Before I got sick I used to play Beatsaber for 2 hours at a time for exercise. Now I have to stop for 10 minutes every two songs because my heartrate goes up dangerously high if I play any longer. Also, did you know that severe cases of COVID can cause hair loss for 6-9 months? I was brushing baseball sized clumps of hair out of my head almost daily before I finally cut it.

It's been four months since I got sick and I'm still seeing doctors and hospitals multiple times a week. I've had little time for anything other than my medical issues. Wear a fucking mask.
 
Yup...delta is lowering the age.

In her mid 20s I believe, juggling friend.

I've talked before about my experience having COVID and being in the hospital for two months. Let me tell you about the two months I've experienced since being discharged.

When I was sent home, I was given a list of medical appointments to make as follow ups. I had physical therapy, occupational therapy, speech therapy, and home nursing coming to my apartment every week. I was still seeing doctors and going to the hospital multiple times a week. Some of the departments I was supposed to contact were and are so inundated that appointments I was told to make a week or a month after discharge, were pushed back as far as three months.

While I was intubated for three weeks and immobilized for longer due to my serotonin syndrome and medication withdrawal, I developed a bed sore on my tail bone. While hospitalized it was treated as a minor wound, one that I would just have to redress every few days at home. And then a month went past and suddenly I was in severe pain.

I had developed a serious infection, or rather, discovered one, because according to my mother's accounts of my time intubated, I ran a fever so high they were concerned about organ damage and I had to be put on IV antibiotics. It's possible this infection had been festering for months.

I was in and out of the ER. I had to make appointments with wound care, infectious diseases, surgical consults, medical imaging. I was on antibiotics for three weeks. It's been a month now since I realized there was something wrong and now I'm finally being told that I may need to have surgery to completely open the wound and clear out infected tissue.

This is all on top of still dealing with my post covid symptoms. I still can't walk long distances or for long periods of time without getting out of breath. Before I got sick I used to play Beatsaber for 2 hours at a time for exercise. Now I have to stop for 10 minutes every two songs because my heartrate goes up dangerously high if I play any longer. Also, did you know that severe cases of COVID can cause hair loss for 6-9 months? I was brushing baseball sized clumps of hair out of my head almost daily before I finally cut it.

It's been four months since I got sick and I'm still seeing doctors and hospitals multiple times a week. I've had little time for anything other than my medical issues. Wear a fucking mask.
Is this in spite of double vaccination?
 
Israel is showing that the Phizer vaccine seems to wear off within months, especially with older people.
Latest stats show all vaccines reduce effectiveness over time.

Probably we'll be doing annual jabs as we do with flu?

... and the travel industry has effectively been extinguished imo
Currently, that in itself is no bad thing, as travel is a huge contribution to global warming. But that's a whole other debate ...

On the downside, countries depend on travel and foreign tourism for a significant portion of their income, so I see no incentive to tackle the issue any time soon, and by the time we do, it'll most likely be too late ...
 
It is a virus. The common cold is a virus. Influenza is a virus. We have not eradicated those two, it is unreasonable to think we can eradicate Covid-19.
Sadly so ...

Face masks are a joke if not worn correctly.
I agree, but I have always been bemused by the furore over wearing masks. Apparently it's an infringement of civil liberty? I mean, what right have we to ask people to wear them, or to wash their hands after using the toilet, to not spit in the street? Drive while drunk, etc... (OK, but you see my point)

Perhaps because I'm such a Japan fan, and masking was simple good manners there long before COVID, I was already sold?

None of this is conspiracy "hoax," ...
But sadly hoaxes have such traction ... 9/11, Flat Earth, COVID was lab produced (the science on that one is not at all conclusive).

Again, personally, I think modern conspiracy theory uptake comes from the same place as religious superstitions, and offer the same comforts ...
 
I'm not a conspiracy theorist, but there is too much that does not add up. People *fully* vaccinated are getting sick, hospitalized, and dying.
But it was never said to offer 100% immunity, just reduce the risk?

The numbers are higher than reported, they are deliberately downplaying the breakthrough cases. That's not conspiracy, that's fact.
I can believe it, but where are these facts sourced? In the UK, we've been behind the curve from the off, and apart from making money out of the pandemic, the govt has been and continues to be ... worlds cannot describe.

... Also fact, there are doctors having great success (close to 100%) if caught early enough using established therapeutics...
Where, who? Why is this not reported? Why are even doctors not shouting it?

My body, my choice. Get over it.
The only bit that doesn't stand interrogation, I'm afraid.

And, in fact, I think you'll find your body belongs to the state ...
 
Probably we'll be doing annual jabs as we do with flu?
I don’t have the flu jab. I hardly take an asprin. I don’t like weird untested foreign stuff in my body. As I said, I did the double vaxx out of social responsibility, to help end the lockdowns and ease pressure on the NHS. Sorry, but that’s where it stops for me. I am not going to carry on taking booster shots of new ‘improved’ and minimally tested drugs.
Vaxx.jpg



Currently, that in itself is no bad thing, as travel is a huge contribution to global warming. But that's a whole other debate ...
It is a whole other debate. I believe overpopulation is the root cause of global warming, and of pandemics too. I don't believe we can stop people travelling around the globe, as it becomes more of a village every day. We may as well go back riding bicycles, imo.

I'm not suggesting I have a solution, but global travel and tourism is a fact of 21st Century existence.
 
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I sound so rudely dogmatic. I apologise. It's not meant that way. However I do not believe covid should be used to justify any social engineering. Covid is abused by many groups and parties to justify their own agendas. IMO
 
A thoughtful article
Shame about it's overt anti-left sentiment, which has no foundation in the MIT report:

"But if indeed, individuals are doing their own risk-benefit calculations, it would help enormously if the Left would refrain from their sickening condescension toward those with serious, legitimate questions ..."

As I read it, conspiracy theorists of all ilks utilise the same data to support their arguments, be it vaccines, masks, climate change, whatever ... MIT does not attribute political leaning, whereas both journals accuse the left, without foundation.
 
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...why wasn't this retraction from the Lancet a bigger story? That was a monumental moment in science, that doesn't just happen.
To be fair, there was quite a reaction here in the UK, on TV and in the media, but then interest waned, whereas it remained in the mind of many ...

The problem is, conspiracy theorists never wonder whether the conspiracy they believe in is, itself, a conspiracy! :D
 
I don’t have the flu jab.
I had one last year, for the first time.

I am not blind to the argument. I remember thalidomide, and to my mind the govt response is to drag out the report process until enough of the victims are dead to bring the outlay down. That thalidomide happened over 50 years ago, and is still not resolved ... what does that say about govt?

We vaccinate against polio, against a raft of diseases. The MMR furore did more damage than good ...

I happen to know a college tutor who was infected with bad blood transfusion in the 80s (blood bought from the US infected with HIV and hepatitis). Once again, years of campaigning to 'recognise' what had been covered up, then the govt. drags out the inquiry. Most of the infected are dead now, so by the time the govt agrees to settle for millions, there'll be no-one to claim.

And now COVID-19, a means of winnowing out the elderly and expensive-to-care-for in the population – shipping infected patients from hospitals to ill-prepared care homes that were supposedly 'ring-fenced' (fairy rings are more substantial) ... who's have thought anything could go wrong?

Sorry, but that’s where it stops for me.
OK. We have an immunity-compromised son-in-law (he's on a raft of drugs, some very expensive, for severe arthritis, when cannabis proves to be the most effective treatment!) and a new-born g-child.

I'm not suggesting I have a solution, but global travel and tourism is a fact of 21st Century existence.
So is wildfires, floods, other natural disasters ... and soon mass migrations, etc.

And 20% of the world's population has never been on an aeroplane, and 15% account for 85% of all air travel!
 
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