30 verses of Bible say " Jesus did not die on the Cross".

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badger

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Not the baptist, no, the baptist is not central to the mission.

But otherwise, I'd say Jesus and His mission is all Paul wrote about. Everything he says and does is related to that.
OK, I acknowledge what you have said, but I think that the Baptist's was the very nucleus of the mission, taken forward by Jesus.

And I cannot see where Paul made mention of any of them, nor it, save for the last hours. I am writing as a Deist, a pagan if you like. I guess that's how we see it differently.
 

RJM

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OK, I acknowledge what you have said, but I think that the Baptist's was the very nucleus of the mission, taken forward by Jesus.

And I cannot see where Paul made mention of any of them, nor it, save for the last hours. I am writing as a Deist, a pagan if you like. I guess that's how we see it differently.
And Paul doesn't confirm that or the theory that Jesus was really just a social justice warrior who did not die on the cross, so Paul has to go ...
 
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RJM

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@badger is not alone
The visceral hatred aroused by Paul amongst those who don't like what he said, still gives me chills ...
 
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badger

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@badger is not alone
The visceral hatred aroused by Paul amongst those who don't like what he said, still gives me chills ...
I don't hate Paul or his letters, don't even know him, I'm just not interested in him or them.
 

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I don't hate Paul or his letters, don't even know him ...
Accepted. That's honest. I apologise. Peace. Of course nor have most others who dismiss Paul, actually read what he wrote
 
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Thomas

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Paul was a handful, I'll give you that. My mum never got on with him, I'm quite a fan, but then I wouldn't like to be on the receiving end of an ear-bender...

Here's a clue I got – Read 1 Corinthians as if you were really, deeply, pee'd off. I mean you are angry. In fact you're livid. You're reciting the letter, you're in full flow, your scribe looks up and says, "Please, Paul, c'mon, that's a bit harsh," and he snaps, "Just write what I bloody tell you to write!"

Corinth is your first founded community, and now you hear they're at each other's throats, there's politics and privilege ... man, he was upset.
 

badger

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Paul was a handful, I'll give you that. My mum never got on with him, I'm quite a fan, but then I wouldn't like to be on the receiving end of an ear-bender...

Here's a clue I got – Read 1 Corinthians as if you were really, deeply, pee'd off. I mean you are angry. In fact you're livid. You're reciting the letter, you're in full flow, your scribe looks up and says, "Please, Paul, c'mon, that's a bit harsh," and he snaps, "Just write what I bloody tell you to write!"

Corinth is your first founded community, and now you hear they're at each other's throats, there's politics and privilege ... man, he was upset.
As a founder of a religion I could read him. Do you remember Malcolm Muggride's telly episodes about his life and journeys? I watched those.
But if I could have an hour to converse with anybody in history my choices (In this order) would be Jesus, Baptist and then Omar Khayyam.....
 

RJM

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Paul was a handful, I'll give you that. My mum never got on with him, I'm quite a fan, but then I wouldn't like to be on the receiving end of an ear-bender...

Here's a clue I got – Read 1 Corinthians as if you were really, deeply, pee'd off. I mean you are angry. In fact you're livid. You're reciting the letter, you're in full flow, your scribe looks up and says, "Please, Paul, c'mon, that's a bit harsh," and he snaps, "Just write what I bloody tell you to write!"

Corinth is your first founded community, and now you hear they're at each other's throats, there's politics and privilege ... man, he was upset.
According to 1 Corinthians the eucharistic commemoration of Christ's last supper was already normal in early Christianity before the gospels were fixed

I speak to sensible people; judge for yourselves what I say. Is not the cup of thanksgiving for which we give thanks a participation in the blood of Christ? And is not the bread that we break a participation in the body of Christ? Because there is one loaf, we, who are many, are one body, for we all share the one loaf.
(1 Corinthians 10:15-17)
 

Cino

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Welcome to the forums, @Yahweh kid. Good to have you here.

I'm afraid Yitzak Tover is no longer posting here.

Would you like to introduce yourself by writing something in the Introductions sub-forum?
 

Ijaz Ahmad Ahmadi

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Pilate finds Jesu not Guilty: Good reason to keep Jesus Alive! He found Jesus was innocent!
(John 18:38)

“What is truth? Pilate asked. With this he went out again to the Jews and said, “I find no basis for a charge against him.”
 

RJM

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What gave you that idea?
Pilate finds Jesu not Guilty: Good reason to keep Jesus Alive! He found Jesus was innocent!
(John 18:38)
“What is truth? Pilate asked. With this he went out again to the Jews and said, “I find no basis for a charge against him.”
There are 23 pages of discussion about this, and in the end @Ijaz Ahmad Ahmadi returns back to the beginning with the same assertion that started it, as if nothing had been said to debunk it. It's like trying to move water with a sieve. It's possible to arrive at almost any conclusion about Jesus by manipulating and cherry-picking, and chucking out whatever parts do not support the theory.

It has been going on forever, and it won't ever stop -- especially by people who don't actually know the Bible very well and just repeat the same wrong statements they have heard from others.

Everyone likes to cherry-pick the Bible out of context to justify whatever theory they support. It's nothing new, imo
 

Ijaz Ahmad Ahmadi

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I was very busy with my job for so many months.
My friend, only saying that "cherry-picking" is not enough answer. That statement is not mine. It is from the Holy Bible. Only please let us know your understanding/meaning of the above verse. The other friends will decide who's understanding is wrong and who is right. You did not talk about the verse.
This verse shows the action/judgment of Pilate, who declared that Jesus is "innocent". So, Pilate does not want to kill Jesus. Pilate made a plan secretly to save Jesus. It happened and Jesus survived from the cross.
 

Yahweh kid

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I was very busy with my job for so many months.
My friend, only saying that "cherry-picking" is not enough answer. That statement is not mine. It is from the Holy Bible. Only please let us know your understanding/meaning of the above verse. The other friends will decide who's understanding is wrong and who is right. You did not talk about the verse.
This verse shows the action/judgment of Pilate, who declared that Jesus is "innocent". So, Pilate does not want to kill Jesus. Pilate made a plan secretly to save Jesus. It happened and Jesus survived from the cross.
Jesus survived from the cross? Where did you get that from?
 

RJM

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You did not talk about the verse.
III – The Roman Governor’s Sympathetic Attitude
The Jews presented the case of Jesus Christ to Pilate, the Roman Governor of Palestine. He held a judicial inquiry into the case and declared that he was not guilty of the charges brought against him. He said unto them:

“Ye have brought this man unto me as one that perverteth the people: and behold, I, having examined him before you, have found no fault in this man touching those things whereof ye accuse him”. (Luke 23:14)

“He went out again unto the Jews and said unto them, l find in him no fault at all. But ye have a custom, that I should release unto you one at the Passover: will ye, therefore, that l release unto you the King of the Jews? Then cried they all again, saying, Not this man, but Barabbas.” (John 18:38, 40)

And from thenceforth Pilate sought to release him: but the Jews cried out, saying, If thou let this man go, thou art, not Caesar's friend: whosoever maketh himself a king speaketh against Caesar”. (John 19:12)

From the references given above, it is evident that the Governor regards Jesus innocent of all the charges brought against him by the Jews, he tries his utmost to release him but when the Jews threatened to report him to the Caesar at Rome he yielded to them and handed Jesus over to them. However, secretly he took measures to see that Jesus should be saved.
This conclusion is not justified. Pilate was forced to allow the crucifixion to keep the peace and avoid a riot or civil confrontation that would reflect badly on his ability as governor. The fact Pilate was unhappy about allowing the crucifixion does not mean Jesus did not die on the cross.
More discussion follows in the early part of the thread.

@Ijaz Ahmad Ahmadi if you would read the Gospel accounts then you would understand the context, imo

You are entitled to believe Jesus did not die on the cross, but you will not be able to prove it from the Gospels. That is the point. The Gospels clearly say Jesus did die in the cross
 
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Cino

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Jesus survived from the cross? Where did you get that from?

Different faiths have different scriptures about the great figures of religious tradition. Muslims generally believe that Jesus was spared death on the cross; the Baha'is believe that the Buddha was a monotheist prophet, to name a couple of recent explorations of our differences, here on this forum.

This is the challenge and essence of interfaith dialogue, to have enough capacity to contain dissenting views about someone or something that is very close to our heart, and to realize that the other person is just as sincerely interested in understanding the many different ways religious views can be held, as one is oneself.

Welcome again to the forums!
 

Ijaz Ahmad Ahmadi

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In reply to reply #455.
If you say that Jesus died on the cross, then How you can prove the similarity between the sign of Jonah and the sign of Jesus, which is the greatest prophecy of Jesus?

“And when the people were gathered thick together, he (Jesus) began to say, this is an evil generation: they seek a sign: and there shall no sign be given it but the sign of Jonah the prophet. For as Jonah was a sign unto the Ninevites, so shall also the Son of man to this generation”. (Luke 11: 29, 30)
 

RJM

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In reply to reply #455.
If you say that Jesus died on the cross, then How you can prove the similarity between the sign of Jonah and the sign of Jesus, which is the greatest prophecy of Jesus?

“And when the people were gathered thick together, he (Jesus) began to say, this is an evil generation: they seek a sign: and there shall no sign be given it but the sign of Jonah the prophet. For as Jonah was a sign unto the Ninevites, so shall also the Son of man to this generation”. (Luke 11: 29, 30)
That was the first 'proof' dealt with and debunked -- on page one of this thread

Sigh ...
 

Ijaz Ahmad Ahmadi

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If we understand and give authority to the saying of Jesus and his actions. we can easily understand christianity.
In my above-quoted verse of the bible, when we understand the actions and saying of Pilate, then it will be easy for us to understand the survival of Jesus from the cross.

I will give you more verses of the bible on this topic after your discussion on this verse.
 
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