Deism, a badger's point of view.

[rocala]

That's when I discovered that Deism is about everything, every force and anything else being part of the Whole, or God, but a God so enormously huge that God is quite unaware of us or even this universe.

I was never sure of the difference so thanks for your explanation. When I was a teen I was in a conversation where I asked "why god needed angels?" The reply was very similar to your definition of Deism except that the example was cells not hairs.

 

[RJM]

why god needed angels?

Why Elon Musk needs managers? Lol ...

 

[powessy]

Back in the 70's a nice man listened to my ideas and beliefs and told me that I was a Pantheist, and explained to me that believing in everything being a part of God was ....Pantheism. Many years later I discovered that Theism is all about aware, involved, participating God/s, which didn't actually fit with my ideas at all, because the Whole of everything is far to vast to be aware of me, or this planet, or this sun, or even this entire universe....... I mean, the whole of everything is certainly vast!

That's when I discovered that Deism is about everything, every force and anything else being part of the Whole, or God, but a God so enormously huge that God is quite unaware of us or even this universe...... I expect that there are countless universes. If you look closely at the back of your hand, maybe focusing upon a finger, you'll see tiny little hairs; so select out just one for consideration and realise that you have never been aware of that part of you ever, never in your life, nor have you ever cared about it until this time. That's I think the Whole, God, exists.

It took me all that time to find this out because the dictionaries and scholars and academics have taken Deism and stuffed it in amongst the definitions of Theism......... they've put Theism and Deism together.

Theism is about aware, involved God/s.
Deism is about unaware, uninvolved God/s.
That's not similar at all. In fact Deism is a kind of anti-Theism..... does not belief in aware God/s, a step towards Atheism, if you like.

But there is a resident Power and Force that rules here on behalf of the Whole, the Deity. It governs everything in this tiny universe, those countless trillions of stars and billions of galaxies........ Mother Nature. It doesn't matter who we are, or what we are, we all bow to her. And that's how I perceive Deism to be a kind of Paganism.

I think your ideas about Deism, to me holds many truths, regarding the universe and god. The only difference is that god to me is not everything he is himself only, everything found time inside of him to become something here.

To simplify god would be to find a box and label it god. Now place all of everything into the box this is ourselves. The box is one thing himself only and everything else is not the box. In the expression of minds this would be said as “yourself is never yourself” this would be one way to describe god, the other is “me cannot become me”.

If everything in the universe has a yourself, or “yourself is yourself” then it also has a me, “I am me”. If every cell in your body is me then you are yourself, and everything inside yourself. This understanding of me and yourself is not just my conscious awareness of self, but laid down all the way to the atomic structures that compose everything or ourselves.

when god entered into himself he tried to become me but me only became yourselves, or ourselves together. For every me that tried to become god yourselves grew larger and larger until nothing inside of him could become something again. This drive is how the dimensional timelines and all around us came to be.

As god moved from one dimensional timeline into the next, more layers of ourselves became something here. Each layer started to figure itself out this yourself would be your interpretation of god for this yourself is everything inside itself becoming something here, let’s call this the Holy Spirit. As for me it would find itself inside the Holy Spirit as its way to become something here.

The Holy Spirit would be our connection to all things as we are all part of it. Me may then be understood as the son of god. As for worlds, galaxies and universes these are all herselves just in layers, boxes inside boxes inside boxes to become something here. All but worlds are celestial objects.

Thank you for sharing your thoughts.

powessy

 

[RJM]

Current physics is looking for a modified theory of gravity that would extend Einstein's general theory of relativity, in the same way that Einstein extended Newton's gravity. It would do away with the dark matter and dark energy 'patch' needed to bring general relativity in line with observation.

Would that be the final answer? Even if it's ever arrived at? Mankind hasn't really a clue about what gravity is. Such elevated pride ...

 

[powessy]

Current physics is looking for a modified theory of gravity that would extend Einstein's general theory of relativity, in the same way that Einstein extended Newton's gravity. It would do away with the dark matter and dark energy 'patch' needed to bring general relativity in line with observation.

Would that be the final answer? Even if it's ever arrived at? Mankind hasn't really a clue about what gravity is. Such elevated pride ...

I see and feel things that don’t make sense to me all the time, not of this world. Science does not account for these things yet they will proclaim dark matter.

To me dark matter is nothing here, or unseen by our human ability to see it. My theory makes more sense, when trying to explain gravity. This universe we are in is just a galaxy within a much larger universe. When the Big Bang occurred it littered the first universe with heated solar objects. These objects later compressed down into the material of space and created their own Big Bang. Each solar object would spread material into something there and then inject material into nothing here. What you see of galaxies in space is only half or portions of the solar masses actual size. These sizes if I am correct should then tell them the size of the full mass of the galaxy by understanding the viewable parts.

In my understanding of nothing here I am always seeking to find some way to prove this, but others would then need to see what I see also. I am not a math wizard with years to dedicate towards proving anything, and finding an ear that will listen is much harder.

powessy

 

[RJM]

I see and feel things that don’t make sense to me all the time, not of this world. Science does not account for these things yet they will proclaim dark matter.

To me dark matter is nothing here, or unseen by our human ability to see it. My theory makes more sense, when trying to explain gravity. This universe we are in is just a galaxy within a much larger universe. When the Big Bang occurred it littered the first universe with heated solar objects. These objects later compressed down into the material of space and created their own Big Bang. Each solar object would spread material into something there and then inject material into nothing here. What you see of galaxies in space is only half or portions of the solar masses actual size. These sizes if I am correct should then tell them the size of the full mass of the galaxy by understanding the viewable parts.

In my understanding of nothing here I am always seeking to find some way to prove this, but others would then need to see what I see also. I am not a math wizard with years to dedicate towards proving anything, and finding an ear that will listen is much harder.

powessy

Your thoughts are always interesting.

It's like swinging a bucket in a circle 100 feet out on only 10 feet of rope. Where's the rest of the rope? That's dark matter. And on every swing, the bucket moves a little further out. That's dark energy. Strange ...

But I think now I really am derailing @badger thread

 

[powessy]

Your thoughts are always interesting.

It's like swinging a bucket in a circle 100 feet out on only 10 feet of rope. Where's the rest of the rope? That's dark matter. And on every swing, the bucket moves a little further out. That's dark energy. Strange ...

But I think now I really am derailing @badger thread

The extra 90 foot of rope is inside of this galaxy at the very heart of it. If you were to enter into the black hole in the center of this galaxy you would find yourself pulled into another universe larger or smaller then this milky way galaxy. The part of the solar mass that didn’t become nothing here is what you see. This also explains your great attractor, as galaxies combine(galactic waltzes) they create a central well of gravitational bodies pulling everything towards them. When all these masses are together it is the end of this universe. Dark energy would be proportional to the speed of this galaxy plus the parts you do not see acting on us.

Thanks RJM, I like how you keep asking questions, it makes me ask questions.

Not my intention either to derail this thread will try to stay on topic.


Added: This is still all part of something here. The spiritual side is it trying to become everything here this is what I see.

powessy

 

[badger]

I used to do monastery retreats at Buckfast Abbey in Devon
A lot of them are
They're mostly small communities of old men these days. Few new members

I have heard of Buckfast Abbey. There is a monastery or retreat at Minster in East Kent, and I think that there is still one at Minster on Sheppey Island, but the one that everybody seems to know about is the community at Aylesford, Kent.

.......... and there was me, thinking that you would probably be an American!
A friend of my father's, Rabbi Lionel Blue, often retreated to a monastery for quiet consideration and thought, and friendship.
The way that he spoke about brotherhood there makes me think of the Quakers, if only because the Quakers receive anybody and offer their meeting houses for use by mostly any religions.

Your retreats to/at Buckfast Abbey interest me a lot. Have you run a thread about these, about what you gained from them, and what you gave....? What do you think about people who devote themselves totally to separation from , well, mammon?

 

[badger]

It's the monks who have kept the church alive, down through thousands of years. Their unchanging ritual and repetitive prayer is the shell of the nut, that has preserved the living truth within imo. They have always been the keepers of the flame. There's an idea that monks changed the scriptures, but that's not the case. Their whole life is devoted to preserving the authenticity of the prayers and scriptures. If one monastery tried to change the Bible, it would be countered by another monastery.

The Catholic church is probably the largest NGO charity organisation in the world. Catholic organisations work directly with lepers and aids patients in the most difficult and dangerous places. Catholic priests and nuns take vows of poverty, chastity and obedience.

https://catholicherald.co.uk/a-worldwide-force-for-good/
Stalin famously said of the Church, “The Pope! How many divisions has he?” Less well known is Churchill’s response that Stalin “might have mentioned a number of legions not always visible on parade”. Indeed, the reach and influence of the Church are not easily described by statistics alone, yet the raw statistics are staggering enough.

The Church operates more than 140,000 schools, 10,000 orphanages, 5,000 hospitals and some 16,000 other health clinics. Caritas, the umbrella organisation for Catholic aid agencies, estimates that spending by its affiliates totals between £2 billion and £4 billion, making it one of the biggest aid agencies in the world.

Even these numbers only tell half the tale. Caritas does not include development spending by a host of religious orders and other Catholic charities, while most of the 200,000 Catholic parishes around the world operate their own small-scale charitable projects which are never picked up in official figures. Establishing like-for-like comparisons is hard, but there can be little doubt that in pretty much every field of social action, from education to health to social care, the Church is the largest and most significant non-state organisation in the world …
Read full article

Mutemwa care centre
Working with lepers in Zimbabwe

Wow! I didn't see this post before answering your previous post....... hence all those questions of mine now answered in the above.
Are you in congregation, or in the priesthood?

OK, I'll swap...... I spent nearly 30 years working as and training others in various kinds of commercial investigation and detection, retiring in January 2010 whence I joined a mate's company as a part time carpet cleaner (loved it!) until 2015. Please could you tell me a bit more about yourself?

 

[badger]

I was never sure of the difference so thanks for your explanation. When I was a teen I was in a conversation where I asked "why god needed angels?" The reply was very similar to your definition of Deism except that the example was cells not hairs.

Hello........ Actually using 'cells' is a better method of explanation than 'hairs'. I need all those cells in my kidneys, heart etc..... and know none of them.

 

[badger]

I think your ideas about Deism, to me holds many truths, regarding the universe and god. The only difference is that god to me is not everything he is himself only, everything found time inside of him to become something here.

To simplify god would be to find a box and label it god. Now place all of everything into the box this is ourselves. The box is one thing himself only and everything else is not the box. In the expression of minds this would be said as “yourself is never yourself” this would be one way to describe god, the other is “me cannot become me”.

If everything in the universe has a yourself, or “yourself is yourself” then it also has a me, “I am me”. If every cell in your body is me then you are yourself, and everything inside yourself. This understanding of me and yourself is not just my conscious awareness of self, but laid down all the way to the atomic structures that compose everything or ourselves.

when god entered into himself he tried to become me but me only became yourselves, or ourselves together. For every me that tried to become god yourselves grew larger and larger until nothing inside of him could become something again. This drive is how the dimensional timelines and all around us came to be.

As god moved from one dimensional timeline into the next, more layers of ourselves became something here. Each layer started to figure itself out this yourself would be your interpretation of god for this yourself is everything inside itself becoming something here, let’s call this the Holy Spirit. As for me it would find itself inside the Holy Spirit as its way to become something here.

The Holy Spirit would be our connection to all things as we are all part of it. Me may then be understood as the son of god. As for worlds, galaxies and universes these are all herselves just in layers, boxes inside boxes inside boxes to become something here. All but worlds are celestial objects.

Thank you for sharing your thoughts.

powessy

......And thank you for sharing yours, powessy.
For me, a very simple mind, I will need to read your post many times, and think for a long time before receiving much of what it has to offer.
But that's what I will try to do.
Thank you....

 

[badger]

Current physics is looking for a modified theory of gravity that would extend Einstein's general theory of relativity, in the same way that Einstein extended Newton's gravity. It would do away with the dark matter and dark energy 'patch' needed to bring general relativity in line with observation.

Would that be the final answer? Even if it's ever arrived at? Mankind hasn't really a clue about what gravity is. Such elevated pride ...

Ha ha! We don't know much about anything, but I do love to listen to programs about what we have learned.
You mention elevated pride........... can you imagine how the first human strutted and posed after lighting the first fire?

 

[badger]

I see and feel things that don’t make sense to me all the time, not of this world. Science does not account for these things yet they will proclaim dark matter.

To me dark matter is nothing here, or unseen by our human ability to see it. My theory makes more sense, when trying to explain gravity. This universe we are in is just a galaxy within a much larger universe. When the Big Bang occurred it littered the first universe with heated solar objects. These objects later compressed down into the material of space and created their own Big Bang. Each solar object would spread material into something there and then inject material into nothing here. What you see of galaxies in space is only half or portions of the solar masses actual size. These sizes if I am correct should then tell them the size of the full mass of the galaxy by understanding the viewable parts.

In my understanding of nothing here I am always seeking to find some way to prove this, but others would then need to see what I see also. I am not a math wizard with years to dedicate towards proving anything, and finding an ear that will listen is much harder.

powessy

Your 'This universe we are in is just a galaxy within a much larger universe.' is what I have believed for so long.
And there is no reason why that 'much larger universe' might not be part of something greater still..... and on, far far beyond the realms of human perception.
So the Whole-of-Everything (of God) is very very big.

When I think such thoughts I feel calmed, reassured, at peace.

 

[RJM]

Wow! I didn't see this post before answering your previous post....... hence all those questions of mine now answered in the above.
Are you in congregation, or in the priesthood?

OK, I'll swap...... I spent nearly 30 years working as and training others in various kinds of commercial investigation and detection, retiring in January 2010 whence I joined a mate's company as a part time carpet cleaner (loved it!) until 2015. Please could you tell me a bit more about yourself?

Hey @badger
I was educated by Jesuits in Zimbabwe (then Rhodesia) before moving to South Africa where I worked as a journalist and then became a flamework glassblower, which is what I still do now.

Moved to the UK in 2011. I've always been a British citizen because my father was born here. Reached retirement age in 2018, but I'm still working. Don't like to reveal too much of my location or identity online, because there are crazies out there.

I've always been in a way 'spititual inclined' but doesn't mean I've always been a good person. I have not. The previous owner of this website didn't want to go on with it so I ended up with it from Sept 2020. Thus IO is still going after 20 yrs with support of long term members

The Benedictine monks helped me a lot when I first arrived in the UK. I was very down. They were good to me. I found that God helps me in this world too, but never at the expense of soul -- because that is what God sees.

The Benedictines in England are a dwindling collection of mostly frail old men nowadays, inhabiting great stone abbey's built for much larger populations.

There are a lot of miscinceptions about the Catholic church. So I end up defending it around here. There is another Catholic here @Thomas who is much more knowledgeable than me, but he is taking a retreat from electronic media during Lent.

He is missed. A search will bring up loads of his posts.

The detection must have changed considerably with computer fraud? Carpet cleaning is quite a physical job, I believe. You sound quite fit for your age?

Regards
Roger

 

[RJM]

You mention elevated pride........... can you imagine how the first human strutted and posed after lighting the first fire?

Love this

 

[Cino]

can you imagine how the first human strutted and posed after lighting the first fire?

The book "2001: A Space Odyssey" by Arthur C. Clarke contains a very similar scene, which is repeated for different technological advances over the ages, with individuals cognizing how they are the most powerful being in that moment, respectively. As a stylistic device, it works very well.

 

[badger]

Your thoughts are always interesting.

It's like swinging a bucket in a circle 100 feet out on only 10 feet of rope. Where's the rest of the rope? That's dark matter. And on every swing, the bucket moves a little further out. That's dark energy. Strange ...

But I think now I really am derailing @badger thread

Oh, please do go on.......... what you are both talking about is a small part of my perception of the Deity, so it fits in here just fine.

 

[badger]

The extra 90 foot of rope is inside of this galaxy at the very heart of it. If you were to enter into the black hole in the center of this galaxy you would find yourself pulled into another universe larger or smaller then this milky way galaxy. The part of the solar mass that didn’t become nothing here is what you see. This also explains your great attractor, as galaxies combine(galactic waltzes) they create a central well of gravitational bodies pulling everything towards them. When all these masses are together it is the end of this universe.
powessy

Do you believe in a Big Crunch or a Big Bounce?
Maybe our Universe pulses in a continuing and repeating Big Bounce? It might be part of a nucleus in a greater existence?

God is very very big, methinks.

Please do continue on........... What you are discussing here is about part of everything........ to a Deist it has the status of prayer.

 

[badger]

Hey @badger
I was educated by Jesuits in Zimbabwe (then Rhodesia) before moving to South Africa where I worked as a journalist and then became a flamework glassblower, which is what I still do now.

How brilliant......... you can make things. I can't blow glass (wish I'd learned) but I can make things, and these I can let go of because I can make more. I wish I had learned to make things when I was young because that would have changed my whole life's journey; today I can cast items in silver, gold and can just manage to cast rose silver and gold with a small brick furnace and MAP gas. I should have learned 'making' a long time before but being late is better than never.

Moved to the UK in 2011. I've always been a British citizen because my father was born here. Reached retirement age in 2018, but I'm still working. Don't like to reveal too much of my location or identity online, because there are crazies out there.

You've travelled....your mention of Rhodesia suggests that you have lived through some very dodgy times. I don't blame you for being cautious about the craziness of some people.

I've always been in a way 'spititual inclined' but doesn't mean I've always been a good person. I have not. The previous owner of this website didn't want to go on with it so I ended up with it from Sept 2020. Thus IO is still going after 20 yrs with support of long term members

So you're the guv'nor here. Well I was glad to find it only a few days ago. I've never really looked for other forums, joined a general religion forum and an atheist forum ten year's ago and never moved on. I still belong to the (mainly) atheist forum but don't post there very often.

The Benedictine monks helped me a lot when I first arrived in the UK. I was very down. They were good to me. I found that God helps me in this world too, but never at the expense of soul -- because that is what God sees.

It's good to hear that there are people who dedicate themselves to 'helping' in so many ways.

The Benedictines in England are a dwindling collection of mostly frail old men nowadays, inhabiting great stone abbey's built for much larger populations.

It can bounce back again so easily and so quickly. Young people can discover and join and embrace old ways as if they are new...just like that.
That word which they have used for 30 years now...... 'retro'... the young can discover and fill a vacuum so quickly.

There are a lot of miscinceptions about the Catholic church. So I end up defending it around here. There is another Catholic here @Thomas who is much more knowledgeable than me, but he is taking a retreat from electronic media during Lent.

My posts can certainly be perceived to be a brutal attack upon Christianity, simply because I absolutely believe in Jesus and what I think his mission was; that could be more difficult for Christians than a bunch of mythers all rubbishing every part of any book in the bibble. I find them easy to debate.

He is missed. A search will bring up loads of his posts.

I look forward to Thomas's return.

The detection must have changed considerably with computer fraud? Carpet cleaning is quite a physical job, I believe. You sound quite fit for your age?

I did love carpet cleaning........ practised the removal of various stains on different kinds of carpeting, studied it. I loved going to people's homes to meet with them, succeeding where they had lost hope over bad stains, etc, and they usually asked for me on subsequent jobs.
And @yes'.... IT changed the whole nature of retail and business crime, and I was mostly a 20th century investigator. I made up my mind to retire in 2009 when I attended the first West London Supermarket to use 'self-tills' as I watched a young kid go to a self till and pay the price of an apple for a £50 video game and walk out with receipt in hand...... I stopped that one but I knew that a different kind of investigator/detective was needed for such a new world. And the law had changed which reduced the powers of 'any persons' to detain many kinds of crimes... it was time for me to go home, which pleased my wife immensely because for years I had been away all week long.

Regards
Roger

And to you..... Peter.

 

[badger]

The book "2001: A Space Odyssey" by Arthur C. Clarke contains a very similar scene, which is repeated for different technological advances over the ages, with individuals cognizing how they are the most powerful being in that moment, respectively. As a stylistic device, it works very well.

I remember it well....... the music and that block or obelisk.
I never did quite connect with the last scenes though....... maybe they were just intended for the viewer's thoughts?