There is no justice if atheism is true

RJM said:
I believe this is purgatory, and it can happen in this world -- I begin to understand the hurt I have caused -- often inadvertantly, and often to those who most loved me. I mostly can't repair it, which causes me terrible pain of regret, but it makes me a better person?
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I agree.
 
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Ahanu said:
You clearly believe in good and evil.

A person can decide to do evil. Once that person decides to do evil to another person or a group of people, and then that person doesn't suffer any consequences in this life for the evil they have committed . . . would you agree that this is an injustice when they can get away scot-free with no consequences for their actions?

Theoretically let's say one person from a spaceship is responsible for blowing up the planet and killing billions of human beings, countless wildlife, and so on. They feel no remorse for such an act. According to atheism, there are no consequences for that person. There is no rule of law to hold the perpetuator accountable. Nothing. After all, nature just is. Atoms continue to whirl around mindlessly. So, yes, no justice assuming atheism is true.
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Ahanu said:
Who said punishment has to be a red-hot object?
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Nobody as far as I know.
Ahanu said:
Perhaps Adolf Hitler could reenact the lives of those he brutally put down in order to broaden his understanding
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Perhaps. Are any faiths claiming this is how it works?
Ahanu said:
Loving kindness cannot begin when no understanding is present.
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Nobody suggested otherwise.
Ahanu said:
The aim of such punishment would be to transform evil into good.
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So you think such punishments do exist after death do you, and that they work?
In my experience, some of the nastier cases to reform, which seems to be where you are going, did so not from unpleasantries inflicted upon them, quite the reverse in fact. Many people can and do consider such matters to be escaping justice.
 
RJM said:
I believe this is purgatory, and it can happen in this world
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This is similar to possible karmic effects too. You do not always have to die first.
RJM said:
I begin to understand the hurt I have caused
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Certainly, truth in this. I was at school with an extremely violent racist. Apparently his whole attitude changed after a black person helped him when he was in trouble.
 
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badger said:
I've asked for a definition of Evil, but nobody seems to want to answer.
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I don't think it exists beyond being a description. The racist that I mentioned was described as evil. His brother was much worse. I am sure they would have loved working in a death camp. But I know something of their horrific upbringing, and I have to ask how they could have been different. So who is to blame, how do you share that out?
 
'Amir Alzzalam said:
Perhaps that's because Good & Evil are subjective. One Man's Good is another Man's Evil.
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Essentially the final evil in nature is death. What leads to death of the individual is called evil, and what leads to life is called good. Gravity subducts and drags all nature downward to fires of dissolution and transformation at the centre of the earth, and eventually drags galaxies to death the heart of a black hole.

In that sense, perhaps the (d)evil in nature is gravity itself?
 
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RJM said:
Essentially the final evil in nature is death. What leads to death of the individual is called evil, and what leads to life is called good.
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RJM said:
Gravity subducts and drags all nature downward to fires of dissolution and transformation at the centre of the earth, and eventually drags galaxies to death the heart of a black hole.

In that sense, perhaps the (d)evil in nature is gravity itself?
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'Amir Alzzalam said:
Is the Way of Nature Evil? It would be if Nature was a conscious, thinking, intelligence, but it is not, it is a mindless mechanism incapable of thought and therefore incapable of intention.
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Must evil be by deliberate intention? When the lion feeds, the zebra dies. We have to use natural terms and analogies.

Darkness is total where there is no light. But a single candle brings light, and a million suns is never totality of light. The bottom of darkness is all the way down -- it's total -- but the lighted heavens have no limit?
 
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RJM said:
Must evil be by deliberate intention? When the lion feeds, the zebra dies. We have to use natural terms and analogies.

Darkness is total where there is no light. But a single candle brings light, and a million suns is never totality of light. The bottom of darkness is all the way down, but the heavens have no limit?
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Ahanu said:
Yes, atheists are capable of a sense of justice. Good point. I'm more concerned with the idea of atheism.
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I am of the firm belief that there can't be an ideology without actors. There can't be "Atheism" without atheists.

I think it false to be afraid of Atheism being somehow a contagious idea leading to people suddenly eating pickled garlic and getting drunk in the streets on whisky.

Rather people gain or lose belief in gods depending on any number of circumstances. And that one part of their make-up, namely belief in a divine being or beings, is not crucial to them behaving ethically.

It doesn't make them lose their musical sense either - look at Yusuf Islam, he may not have played music for a while, but he's still a musician.

On the other hand, a psychopath will not become a compassionate being upon adopting a faith.
 
'Amir Alzzalam said:
Darkness is the Womb that Births Light
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Darkness is the lack of light. Total darkness is the total lack of light. There is no totality of light
'Amir Alzzalam said:
However, I don't see a parallel between Light/Dark and Good/Evil.
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It is the parallel we use in nature, where the pure spiritual yin-yang polarity is shifted from the vertical axis and split up and confused, along with the other eternal polarities and causing constant change in nature-- except the original spiritual horizontal polarity of fire and water, which polarity is not split up in nature, but is shifted in nature to the primary vertical axis, imo

"For whosoever hath, to him shall be given, and he shall have more abundance: but whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken away even that he hath"
(Matt 13:12)

The law of gravity ...
 
'Amir Alzzalam said:
So, you're using Light as a metaphor and then referring to it as something physical, depending on the point you wish to make? Cherry Picking your definitions? If there was no Darkness to hold a Light, how would Light exist? No, Darkness is the Womb that Births Light, both scientifically and philosophically.

Yin Yang is a false concept of Duality, which doesn't really exist either. Perhaps this is why you keep assigning Light/Dark with Good/Evil? It just isn't so, everything is unique unto itself, there may be polar extremes, but a closed system of Duality is an illusion.

Are you going to start using the Christian bible as part of your argument? Because that would be a very bad idea given the fact that Yahweh can be construed as pure Evil along with the message of that book. It will undeniably prove that Atheists are morally and ethically above Christians, and that Man is morally and ethically above Yahweh.
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You asked what is good and evil. I provided some of my thoughts to the eternal question. I intended space between the lines. If you want to be rude, you can talk to yourself ...
 
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Cino said:
I am of the firm belief that there can't be an ideology without actors. There can't be "Atheism" without atheists.

I think it false to be afraid of Atheism being somehow a contagious idea leading to people suddenly eating pickled garlic and getting drunk in the streets on whisky.
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I'm curious.

Are there any poor regions in the world in which a majority are atheists?
 
Cino said:
And that one part of their make-up, namely belief in a divine being or beings, is not crucial to them behaving ethically.
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Religion also encompasses community and community expectations. Parenting has a huge influence on behaving ethically.
 
The serpent speaks as nature, and so imperfection originates, in the first use of human free will
 
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