There is no justice if atheism is true

Cino said:
The kind of moral value which is formulated, "God says not to murder", I agree Those don't work without gods.

The kind of moral value which is based on a mutual agreement not to murder one another, what's your issue with seeing that it is just a plain good idea, obvious as daylight, and one can just adopt it without referring to a god?
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Yes, one can choose to adopt it without referring to a god, but what in nature clearly informs you to adopt such a moral value in the first place? Consider if you were living in a tribal society three thousand years ago, in one of America's ghettos today, or in the cities of Brazil. In that scenario, what's to stop you from thinking nature/the universe does want us to murder one another? Homicide is a leading cause of death in young adults around the world. In some countries it nearly reaches ten percent. Why aren't these people seeing your obvious moral value? What do atheists have to say to these people? That not murdering a fellow human being is an obvious moral value we should all uphold?
 
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Cino said:
If you had no god to keep you from doing so, whom would you murder first? How would you justify it to yourself? I think it was thoughts like these Nietzsche was exploring. He was, after all, the son of a priest.
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Cino said:
No, but while I have read some of his work, it was for my personal entertainment, not serious study.

When you speak of scholars not questioning his arguments, what do you mean by that?
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I mean that scholars do not question the main arguments in On the Genealogy of Morality being that of Nietzsche's, not his sister's.
 
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How crazy does a person have to be to require Armageddon and mega-death in order to justify their 'messenger' latest human incarnation of God?
 
Cino said:
I bow to your superior understanding of atheism, @Ahanu.
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I never said it is superior.

I am telling you what my understanding of atheism is. I see no reason to allow immaterial realities into atheism. You have provided no good reason for such to be the case either.

Since we are playing this game, I guess I will also bow to your superior understanding of the Baha'i Faith.
 
Cino said:
I bow to your superior understanding of atheism, @Ahanu.
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Note I do agree your understanding of Buddhism is way beyond mine. You were right in noting the author's shortcomings in his understanding of nonduality in Buddhism in your previous thread.

Hope that helps you feel better?
 
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It's mad to want armeggadon so that 'my guy' gets to take over when it's all done ...
 
Ahanu said:
I never said it is superior.

I am telling you what my understanding of atheism is. I see no reason to allow immaterial realities into atheism. You have provided no good reason for such to be the case either.

Since we are playing this game, I guess I will also bow to your superior understanding of the Baha'i Faith.
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All good. You keep your world view nice and tidy. I predict you will continue to struggle to fit me and others like me into your categories. That is not our fault, however.
 
I think anyone who thinks the death of innocents is justified should work to fix the evil at the core before trying to teach anyone else what to believe
 
Ahanu said:
That's right. Let's hear why @wil thinks that is sad.
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I find it sad that people don't think people can decide to do good, decide against evil.

I find it concerning that the ONLY reason some do good is a concern of how they will be treated in the next life.

I have met evil people, both God fearing and atheists.

The statement simply makes no sense to me...in many ways, and it (this is obviously my issue) makes me sad to think people think that way.
 
wil said:
I find it sad that people don't think people can decide to do good, decide against evil.

I find it concerning that the ONLY reason some do good is a concern of how they will be treated in the next life.

I have met evil people, both God fearing and atheists.

The statement simply makes no sense to me...in many ways, and it (this is obviously my issue) makes me sad to think people think that way.
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Reply removed at user's own request
 
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wil said:
The statement simply makes no sense to me...in many ways, and it (this is obviously my issue) makes me sad to think people think that way.
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You clearly believe in good and evil.

A person can decide to do evil. Once that person decides to do evil to another person or a group of people, and then that person doesn't suffer any consequences in this life for the evil they have committed . . . would you agree that this is an injustice when they can get away scot-free with no consequences for their actions?

Theoretically let's say one person from a spaceship is responsible for blowing up the planet and killing billions of human beings, countless wildlife, and so on. They feel no remorse for such an act. According to atheism, there are no consequences for that person. There is no rule of law to hold the perpetuator accountable. Nothing. After all, nature just is. Atoms continue to whirl around mindlessly. So, yes, no justice assuming atheism is true.
 
wil said:
What are the other reasons which are not enough and require one to believe in eternal punishment
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One can believe what they like.
We are all capable of fooling ourselves, and claiming to be self-righteous.

Everything we do has an underlying intention. It is not a negative thing, to abstain from an action due to fear of God.
Why should it be?
 
muhammad_isa said:
One can believe what they like.
We are all capable of fooling ourselves, and claiming to be self-righteous.

Everything we do has an underlying intention. It is not a negative thing, to abstain from an action due to fear of God.
Why should it be?
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Not saying it is negative, but if there has to be a penalty, man's law or otherwise on moral and ethical decisions, that is a weak human being.
Ahanu said:
You clearly believe in good and evil.

A person can decide to do evil. Once that person decides to do evil to another person or a group of people, and then that person doesn't suffer any consequences in this life for the evil they have committed . . . would you agree that this is an injustice when they can get away scot-free with no consequences for their actions?

Theoretically let's say one person from a spaceship is responsible for blowing up the planet and killing billions of human beings, countless wildlife, and so on. They feel no remorse for such an act. According to atheism, there are no consequences for that person. There is no rule of law to hold the perpetuator accountable. Nothing. After all, nature just is. Atoms continue to whirl around mindlessly. So, yes, no justice assuming atheism is true.
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I love silly theoreticals! I don't deal with them, I deal with life, or have for the past 65 years.

I have done wrong, I surely don't fool myself that I have not, nor do I believe
I should get any absolution for donating to my favorite charity, laying aawyer, or dancing the right jig of whatever religion.

If you think you need a metaphysical carrot , have at it, but take the log out before ya decide to pile on all humanity
 
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