There is no justice if atheism is true

badger said:
Pettiness? You must tell us all which laws are petty and which laws are serious..
Click to expand...
Is there any point?
You seem to have already made up your mind.

First of all comes the belief in God .. belief in God's messengers and guidance.
Some people believe, and some don't.
 
Thomas said:
Sadly I fear prison populations follow a trend, and the significant trend (this has been documented), is that there's a higher population of people 'not like us' and which corresponds to the greatest racist perceived notion of threat.

So young black males offer a disproportionately high number of those in prison in the US and the UK, which only proves to white racists that black people have lower moral values, are more inclined to crime, etc., etc. It's a self-fulfilling prophecy because the state in some ways reflects the underlying tensions.

Like when we drive locally, it's always a black driver we see pulled over. When I walk along the busy highroad, the times I smell cannabis wafting from cars. Anecdotal evidence that significant cocaine residue is found in all UK major league football clubs, yet the supporters are by majority white (and remarkably racist). Yet is always black people who get stopped.

Look at the stats taking a white male as the average, then the disproportionately stiffer sentence handed out to women, people of colour, etc.

Factor in the staggeringly high ratio of ex-forces inmates – men who obviously needed, and failed to get, adequate trauma understanding and support.

The study that highlighted the trend in the UK was a long-term study done over generations by an Indian PhD, wish I could find it.

His finding also evidenced that since the emergence of Islamic militancy/terrorism, the percentage Muslim population in prison is also on the rise, suggesting the 'Muslim' is drawing close to the 'Black Man' in terms of the incipient fears of those who sit in judgement upon them.

So for me, prison populations tell more about the justice system than the moral values (or lack thereof) of the residents in such institutions.
Click to expand...
Yep..... this^^^^^

And as far as prison statistics go, it's not a bad idea for inmates to claim a religion because this gets them more opportunities to go to various ceremonies, services, etc, to help time pass by. So we could never count the number of true theists being involved in crimes.
 
muhammad_isa said:
It might be clear to you.. that doesn't mean that you are right.
How can you be so sure, that there is no life after death?
Click to expand...
Well now........ there is life after death, but not as you are claiming, imo.
When I die countless billions of atoms will be scattered all over the Thames estuary, so long as my Missus doesn't put them in a pot in the garden.
And each and every one of them is teaming with.......life.
 
muhammad_isa said:
Is there any point?
You seem to have already made up your mind.

First of all comes the belief in God .. belief in God's messengers and guidance.
Some people believe, and some don't.
Click to expand...
There we are, you cannot answer a simple question and so you redirect away from it.

Come on, please tell us all which laws are petty and which laws are serious. ??
 
'Amir Alzzalam said:
I thought the gist of this thread was that because an atheist has no God to answer to that said atheist has no morals or ethics to adhere to, there is no 'judgment' in their minds..
Click to expand...
No .. that's what you want it to be about.

@Ahanu says "A person can decide to do evil. Once that person decides to do evil to another person or a group of people, and then that person doesn't suffer any consequences in this life for the evil they have committed . . . would you agree that this is an injustice when they can get away scot-free with no consequences for their actions?"

Belief in God, includes the concept of Divine justice .. that we all have to answer to a higher authority eventually.
The argument is not that the belief automatically makes somebody a better person.
It might, but not necessarily.
 
'Amir Alzzalam said:
I thought the gist of this thread was that because an atheist has no God to answer to that said atheist has no morals or ethics to adhere to, there is no 'judgment' in their minds, therefore because of this, they become dangerous to society.

Which is not the case.
Click to expand...
Which is already shown, on both sides of this discussion. Everybody seems to agree that any person of sound reason of mind is capable of deciding what actions are ethical and moral, and which are not.

I didn't notice why Aup started this thread but presumably somebody suggested that there is no justice in atheism and he wanted to focus upon it. But if we reverse this proposal in to 'there is justice in theism' then immediately the glaring examples of injustice from and within theism can jump out at us.

See how one member wants to mention about what breeches of law are petty, and what are not? This makes me wonder whether a housewife who slept with a visiting meter reader and was caught and stoned to death in a Middle East country will be ok after life.....a petty crime, or not?
 
muhammad_isa said:
Belief in God, includes the concept of Divine justice .. that we all have to answer to a higher authority eventually.
The argument is not that the belief automatically makes somebody a better person.
It might, but not necessarily.
Click to expand...
So what difference does this belief make to the theist in life, if it doesn't make them a better, lawful, decent, ethical and moral person?
 
badger said:
See how one member wants to mention about what breeches of law are petty, and what are not? This makes me wonder whether a housewife who slept with a visiting meter reader and was caught and stoned to death in a Middle East country will be ok after life.....a petty crime, or not?
Click to expand...
Does it? I thought you didn't believe in a judgment after death?
That is not what I meant, in any case.

I mean that there will be good reason for what happens to us.
Re. your housewife, I wouldn't know. Only God knows.
 
badger said:
So what difference does this belief make to the theist in life, if it doesn't make them a better, lawful, decent, ethical and moral person?
Click to expand...
It really depends on a lot of things.
Belief is the foundation. Some people take their religion seriously, whilst others might be careless.
 
muhammad_isa said:
It really depends on a lot of things.
Belief is the foundation. Some people take their religion seriously, whilst others might be careless.
Click to expand...
So let's look at a person who takes their religion seriously, and for example believes that unbelievers can die .
This isn't working too well for you, imo.
 
Thomas said:
Sadly I fear prison populations follow a trend, and the significant trend (this has been documented), is that there's a higher population of people 'not like us' and which corresponds to the greatest racist perceived notion of threat.

So young black males offer a disproportionately high number of those in prison in the US and the UK, which only proves to white racists that black people have lower moral values, are more inclined to crime, etc., etc. It's a self-fulfilling prophecy because the state in some ways reflects the underlying tensions.

Like when we drive locally, it's always a black driver we see pulled over. When I walk along the busy highroad, the times I smell cannabis wafting from cars. Anecdotal evidence that significant cocaine residue is found in all UK major league football clubs, yet the supporters are by majority white (and remarkably racist). Yet is always black people who get stopped.

Look at the stats taking a white male as the average, then the disproportionately stiffer sentence handed out to women, people of colour, etc.

Factor in the staggeringly high ratio of ex-forces inmates – men who obviously needed, and failed to get, adequate trauma understanding and support.

The study that highlighted the trend in the UK was a long-term study done over generations by an Indian PhD, wish I could find it.

His finding also evidenced that since the emergence of Islamic militancy/terrorism, the percentage Muslim population in prison is also on the rise, suggesting the 'Muslim' is drawing close to the 'Black Man' in terms of the incipient fears of those who sit in judgement upon them.

So for me, prison populations tell more about the justice system than the moral values (or lack thereof) of the residents in such institutions.
Click to expand...
Have you ever heard about reinforced prejudice? I researched this condition over many years and wrote articles about it.
A customs officer/policeman/store detective reckons that he can pick out bad people on sight, never wrong, and is certain that,say, young men with facial tattoos are always bad.
So he observes them above all others. When they turn out to be good he will tell you that they are at it but were canny and clocked him, etc etc...and then, because he always watches them he must eventually catch one being bad.
''I told you so! What did I tell you? You see? Facial tattoos is guilty!''

And so it gets worse, with dreadful consequences eventually.
 
muhammad_isa said:
No .. that's what you want it to be about.

@Ahanu says "A person can decide to do evil. Once that person decides to do evil to another person or a group of people, and then that person doesn't suffer any consequences in this life for the evil they have committed . . . would you agree that this is an injustice when they can get away scot-free with no consequences for their actions?"

Belief in God, includes the concept of Divine justice .. that we all have to answer to a higher authority eventually.
The argument is not that the belief automatically makes somebody a better person.
It might, but not necessarily.
Click to expand...
Reply removed at user's own request
 
Last edited by a moderator:
muhammad_isa said:
No .. that's what you want it to be about.

@Ahanu says "A person can decide to do evil. Once that person decides to do evil to another person or a group of people, and then that person doesn't suffer any consequences in this life for the evil they have committed . . . would you agree that this is an injustice when they can get away scot-free with no consequences for their actions?"

Belief in God, includes the concept of Divine justice .. that we all have to answer to a higher authority eventually.
The argument is not that the belief automatically makes somebody a better person.
It might, but not necessarily.
Click to expand...
Reply removed at user's own request
 
Last edited by a moderator:
badger said:
Which is already shown, on both sides of this discussion. Everybody seems to agree that any person of sound reason of mind is capable of deciding what actions are ethical and moral, and which are not.

I didn't notice why Aup started this thread but presumably somebody suggested that there is no justice in atheism and he wanted to focus upon it. But if we reverse this proposal in to 'there is justice in theism' then immediately the glaring examples of injustice from and within theism can jump out at us.

See how one member wants to mention about what breeches of law are petty, and what are not? This makes me wonder whether a housewife who slept with a visiting meter reader and was caught and stoned to death in a Middle East country will be ok after life.....a petty crime, or not?
Click to expand...
Reply removed at user's own request
 
Last edited by a moderator:
'Amir Alzzalam said:
OP "There is no justice if atheism is true"
What do you suggest the OP means?
Click to expand...
In this thread:

Why do you need Jesus? He saves you from what?

Jesus is the answer to all your problems. This video explains you from what does He save you and why.
www.interfaith.org www.interfaith.org

In response to this comment #284 by @muhammad_isa
muhammad_isa said:
No, they are not "just stories".

Take Hitler, for example.
Your belief means that Hitler escaped answering for the suffering that he caused others,
by committing suicide.

The correct Christian belief, is that he will not escape judgement.
Divine justice is perfect, Holy.
You can ask @Thomas if you don't believe me.
Click to expand...
@Ahanu posts #290:
Ahanu said:
Great point. There is no justice if atheism is true.
Click to expand...
It is in response to the above exchange that @Aupmanyav opens this new thread:
There is no justice if atheism is true
https://www.interfaith.org/community/threads/20409/
with the OP post:
Aupmanyav said:
Ahanu makes a very strange statement in another thread.
@Ahanu, how did you arrive at that?
There are laws of the nation and the laws of the society in which you live. Does atheism asks one to disobey those laws?
I submit to both. My being atheist does not exempt me from them.
Click to expand...
This I believe is the context of the OP?
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top