God is very forgiving!

[rocala]

Whether the poetry will have impact depends on what it wants to say.

and the skill of the author.

 

['Amir Alzzalam]

Lol @'Amir Alzzalam it is always hilarious that non Bible believers are such literalists!

Reply removed at user's own request

 

[wil]

Something about "Not an Iota, Not a Dot, Will Pass from the Law Until All Is Accomplished” - Matthew 5:17–18
given this was just one more after-the-fact statement (circa 100 A.D.) and that 'the Law' has not yet been 'accomplished' . . . I don't see your argument.

What is your issue with this chapter and how do you interpret it?

 

['Amir Alzzalam]

What is your issue with this chapter and how do you interpret it?

Reply removed at user's own request

 

[Thomas]

I thought it was obvious. Christians must follow the words of the Old and New Testaments.

But Christians are not obliged to take every words literally, as you seem to.

Nor do Jews, for that matter.

People like to compartmentalise us, it makes it easier to shoot fish when they're in a barrel.

There certainly are vociferous elements that insist on the literal word, as they interpret it, is the only reading.

 

[OupaPiet]

The 'problem' is obvious . . . this god is NOT a 'Forgiving God' which this thread is about.
In fact, this god is a ruthless tyrant and Hellbent on conquering the human race no matter what the cost.
Here are a few more wonderful things the mass-murdering Christian deity managed to execute . . . if you would like a breakdown of the twisted and horrific Islamic imposter feel free to inquire.


(4 Kings 2:23-24)
God sent two bears to maul 42 kids to death for making fun of a bald dude.

(Genesis 19:26)
God turned Lot's wife into a pillar of salt for breaking a rule she didn't know existed.

(Leviticus 21:17-24)
God does not want coming into his churches: People with blemishes, blind people, the lame, those with flat noses, dwarves, people with scurvy, people with bad eyes, people with bad skin, and those that "hath their stones broken." God is technically responsible for giving people all of these afflictions in the first place.

(Exodus 4:24-26)
There is literally no explanation given in the Bible for God's decision to murder one of his chief supporters. The line is "At a lodging place on the way, the Lord met Moses and was about to kill him." The only sensible explanation for this is that God was drunk out of his mind and looking for a bar fight, and you better hope that's correct because the alternative is that God's a psychopath.

(Genesis 38:1-10)
Onan and his brother Er. God does not care for Er, and kills him. Standard God operating procedure. Onan's father orders Onan to have sex with Er's wife — not marry, by the way, just have sex with. This is actually pretty awkward for Onan, sleeping with his sister-in-law, and rather than give her any more kids (she had two with Er already) he pulls out. God is so infuriated that Onan did not fuck his sister-in-law to completion that he kills him, too. Now, you could argue that God demands that intercourse be used specifically for procreation, but given how much God loves killing babies and children, I don't think his motives here are exceptionally pure.

(Judges 14:1-19)
More evidence that God is possibly a low-level mobster: When his pal Samson got married, he was given 30 friends, and he posed them (a completely insane) riddle. Then he made a bet that if they could solve it in a week, Samson would give them all new clothes, but if they couldn't they would give Samson 30 pairs of new clothes. Well, Samson's wife wheedled the answer out of him and then told these dudes, at which point an angry Samson had to pay up. And here's where God comes in — literally, into Samson, giving him the power to murder 30 random people for their clothes. Only a true friend would help you commit mass murder to settle a completely stupid bet.

Best of luck with this . . .

Well, lets see what your argument consists of.
1. the God of the Bible destroyed the nations in Canaan because they were Idolaters, burned their firstborn children to Moloch, had sex orgies in their fertility temples, were totally immoral, murdered raped etc.

The Bible shows that God chose Israel to destroy these really bad people, because they knew they were heinously wrong.
This God of the Bible also warns Israel, that if they were to do what these nations did, He will do the same with them. Oh, and He did after they denied YHWH as God, and followed Ba'Allah, Asteroth and Moloch.

Now, you somehow conclude that the God of the Bible is immoral, forgetting that Muhammad plagiarized the exact same stories from the Jews, and wrote it into the Quran!
So, all I am asking, don't you think it is utterly Hypocritical to attack the Bible, and the God of the Bible, ....
IF THE QURAN HAS THE EXACT SAME STORIES WITHIN IT?....
I think if anyone asks me to explain the violence in the Bible, thinking I don't know what their Quran says, id underestimating the intelligence of the Christian. To me such a behaviour is an insult!

And I have the right to claim that you are insulting my religion, on the grounds that you expect me to ignore the immoral descriptions of Islam.
Greetings in the name of Jesus Christ, your Lord and Mine.

 

[OupaPiet]

I thought it was obvious. Christians must follow the words of the Old and New Testaments.

Hi Amir, I do believe in the Old and New Testament, in full.
Remember that all the first Christians were Jews, and they had only the Old Testament.
All the Apostles, and even Paul, knew the Old Testament.
The first 200 Christians that came together when the Holy Ghost descended on them, were Jews.
The first 5000 Christians that joined the apostles because of the miracles they saw performed by the Apostles were Jews.
The apostles preached for at least the first 15 years in synagogues to Jews.
The Apostles traveled to Asia Minor up to Rome, and even further, towards Spain and Arabia, preaching in Jewish Synagogues.
Yes, I believe in the literal meaning of the OT, except where it say it is figuratively.
And I believe in it ALL.

 

[OupaPiet]

The 'problem' is obvious . . . this god is NOT a 'Forgiving God' which this thread is about.
In fact, this god is a ruthless tyrant and Hellbent on conquering the human race no matter what the cost.
Here are a few more wonderful things the mass-murdering Christian deity managed to execute . . . if you would like a breakdown of the twisted and horrific Islamic imposter feel free to inquire.


(4 Kings 2:23-24)
God sent two bears to maul 42 kids to death for making fun of a bald dude.

(Genesis 19:26)
God turned Lot's wife into a pillar of salt for breaking a rule she didn't know existed.

(Leviticus 21:17-24)
God does not want coming into his churches: People with blemishes, blind people, the lame, those with flat noses, dwarves, people with scurvy, people with bad eyes, people with bad skin, and those that "hath their stones broken." God is technically responsible for giving people all of these afflictions in the first place.

(Exodus 4:24-26)
There is literally no explanation given in the Bible for God's decision to murder one of his chief supporters. The line is "At a lodging place on the way, the Lord met Moses and was about to kill him." The only sensible explanation for this is that God was drunk out of his mind and looking for a bar fight, and you better hope that's correct because the alternative is that God's a psychopath.

(Genesis 38:1-10)
Onan and his brother Er. God does not care for Er, and kills him. Standard God operating procedure. Onan's father orders Onan to have sex with Er's wife — not marry, by the way, just have sex with. This is actually pretty awkward for Onan, sleeping with his sister-in-law, and rather than give her any more kids (she had two with Er already) he pulls out. God is so infuriated that Onan did not fuck his sister-in-law to completion that he kills him, too. Now, you could argue that God demands that intercourse be used specifically for procreation, but given how much God loves killing babies and children, I don't think his motives here are exceptionally pure.

(Judges 14:1-19)
More evidence that God is possibly a low-level mobster: When his pal Samson got married, he was given 30 friends, and he posed them (a completely insane) riddle. Then he made a bet that if they could solve it in a week, Samson would give them all new clothes, but if they couldn't they would give Samson 30 pairs of new clothes. Well, Samson's wife wheedled the answer out of him and then told these dudes, at which point an angry Samson had to pay up. And here's where God comes in — literally, into Samson, giving him the power to murder 30 random people for their clothes. Only a true friend would help you commit mass murder to settle a completely stupid bet.

Best of luck with this . . .

By the way,
If you want to discuss these topics, open a thread, and post them one by one.
I will gladly answer each and every one of your concerns.
But to copy paste numerous accusations, without discussing the answers, it just a lame way to say, "I dont care what you answer, there are more such accusations I can throw!"

Actually, I think only sincere intellectuals can take one argument at a time, and dissect the truth about it, and will allow the other party to also give a point or so to discuss the things from their religion.
Dont you think that is much more civilized?

 

['Amir Alzzalam]

By the way,
If you want to discuss these topics, open a thread, and post them one by one.
I will gladly answer each and every one of your concerns.
But to copy paste numerous accusations, without discussing the answers, it just a lame way to say, "I dont care what you answer, there are more such accusations I can throw!"

Actually, I think only sincere intellectuals can take one argument at a time, and dissect the truth about it, and will allow the other party to also give a point or so to discuss the things from their religion.
Dont you think that is much more civilized?

Reply removed at user's own request

 

['Amir Alzzalam]

Hi Amir, I do believe in the Old and New Testament, in full.
Remember that all the first Christians were Jews, and they had only the Old Testament.
All the Apostles, and even Paul, knew the Old Testament.
The first 200 Christians that came together when the Holy Ghost descended on them, were Jews.
The first 5000 Christians that joined the apostles because of the miracles they saw performed by the Apostles were Jews.
The apostles preached for at least the first 15 years in synagogues to Jews.
The Apostles traveled to Asia Minor up to Rome, and even further, towards Spain and Arabia, preaching in Jewish Synagogues.
Yes, I believe in the literal meaning of the OT, except where it say it is figuratively.
And I believe in it ALL.

Reply removed at user's own request

 

['Amir Alzzalam]

Well, lets see what your argument consists of.
1. the God of the Bible destroyed the nations in Canaan because they were Idolaters, burned their firstborn children to Moloch, had sex orgies in their fertility temples, were totally immoral, murdered raped etc.

The Bible shows that God chose Israel to destroy these really bad people, because they knew they were heinously wrong.
This God of the Bible also warns Israel, that if they were to do what these nations did, He will do the same with them. Oh, and He did after they denied YHWH as God, and followed Ba'Allah, Asteroth and Moloch.

Now, you somehow conclude that the God of the Bible is immoral, forgetting that Muhammad plagiarized the exact same stories from the Jews, and wrote it into the Quran!
So, all I am asking, don't you think it is utterly Hypocritical to attack the Bible, and the God of the Bible, ....
IF THE QURAN HAS THE EXACT SAME STORIES WITHIN IT?....
I think if anyone asks me to explain the violence in the Bible, thinking I don't know what their Quran says, id underestimating the intelligence of the Christian. To me such a behaviour is an insult!

And I have the right to claim that you are insulting my religion, on the grounds that you expect me to ignore the immoral descriptions of Islam.
Greetings in the name of Jesus Christ, your Lord and Mine.

Reply removed at user's own request

 

[muhammad_isa]

"all the first Christians were Jews"
What on earth are you saying?

It's not difficult to understand.
Jesus was a Jew, and he attended the temple in Jerusalem.
The first people who believed that Jesus was the promised messiah sent by God were Jews.
There .. that wasn't hard was it.

what you are saying is that Christianity is just an extension of Judaism. Is that what Yeshua planned?

Almighty God is the Best of Planners. Yeshua was sent by God to teach and warn.

 

['Amir Alzzalam]

But Christians are not obliged to take every words literally, as you seem to.

Nor do Jews, for that matter.

People like to compartmentalise us, it makes it easier to shoot fish when they're in a barrel.

There certainly are vociferous elements that insist on the literal word, as they interpret it, is the only reading.

Reply removed at user's own request

 

[Tony Bristow-Stagg]

No need to continue.

There is no reason you should even reply to this OP, nor my reply

God is indeed very forgiving.

It is men that write the future by their own choices. The violence in the Bible is written by those that carried out those atrocious acts.

God gives us the laws and guidance that could at any time, if we accept, become God's Kingsom on Earth as it is in Heaven.

Then God also tells us the results of the rejection, what calamities that will befall us.

That knowledge is not the cause, our choices are the cause of human suffering.

Regards Tony

 

[OupaPiet]

That, my fellow Interfaithian is a COP OUT.

Sorry,
I dont understand "COP OUT"
what does it mean?

 

[Thomas]

We can stop right there . . . the actual interpretation is ...

No, actually, that interpretation falters ... as you will know, your origin of the God is not universally accepted, and creates a lot of problems along the way. It's generally acknowledged, but not universally.

Most significantly, is that you make no account of the change in how God is understood from its primitive origins as a War God, through monolatry and thence to the monotheism of 2nd Temple Judaism, a journey of a thousand years.

As an example, what do you make of the Hebrew deity ʼĒl ʻElyōn' (cf Genesis 14:18-20) generally translated as 'God Most High, maker of heaven and earth'?

This would appear to be the God of Melchizedek, king of Salem.

Psalms 78:35: "And they remembered that God [ʼĒlōhīm] was their rock, and the high God [ʼĒl ʻElyōn] their redeemer."

Deuteronomy 32:8 appears to identify ʽElyōn with ’Elohim, but not necessarily with Yahweh. It can be read to mean that ʽElyōn separated mankind into 70 nations according to his 70 sons, each son the tutelary deity over one of the 70 nations, one of whom is Yazhweh, the God of Israe.

Alternatively, it may mean that ʽElyōn, having given the other nations to his sons, takes Israel for himself under the name of the Tetragrammaton. Both interpretations have supporters.

In Isaiah 14:13–14 the rebellious prince of Babylon says: "I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God (El) ... I will be like the most High (ʽElyōn)."

Elsewhere the relationship is different, 2 Samuel 22:14 suggests YHWH over Elyōn. as does Psalm 97:9:
"For you, Lord [YHWH], are Most High [ʽelyōn] over all the earth; you are raised high over all the gods."

+++

So the picture is nowhere near as simple or as static as you seem to insist.

 

[OupaPiet]

"all the first Christians were Jews"
What on earth are you saying? Try explaining that to a Hasidic Jew, or a Christian . . . what you are saying is that Christianity is just an extension of Judaism. Is that what Yeshua planned? . . . Oh wait . . .is that what Yahweh planned? LOL . . . which would be just another fail by The Omniscient, Omnipresent, Overlord.

If anyone does not know that the first Christians were Jewish, they should not even think to discuss the origins of Christianity.
I can not take a horse to the water and force him to drink.
Denial is a sign of insecurity.

 

[OupaPiet]

"the God of the Bible destroyed the nations in Canaan because they were Idolaters,"
We can stop right there . . . the actual interpretation is; the Judaic Yahweh, a North Arabian War God who was worshiped by the Semitic tribes living near the Gulf of Aqaba originating with the Midianite, Hebrew, Moabite, and Edomite tribes of southern Jordan and Palestine, was appropriated by later Christian cults and in typical Middle East fashion began to conquer and annihilate past faiths.

"they were Idolaters" . . . according to who? Oh, that's right, according to Christianity. Go look up the term Circular Logic.
No need to continue.

Nope,
the religion of YHWH of Israel was in contrast and opposition to the Ba Alah worship practiced by the other nations in and around Canaan.
Israel started to practice Idolatry after Solomon's death with his son Jeroboam.

Anyhow, why are you jumping from one topic to the other.
Is it possible that you will be able to discuss one claim at a time, or not?

 

[OupaPiet]

Why would Christians NOT adhere to the WORD OF GOD? That alone draws multiple red flags
Jew do NOT accept the Christian bible as truth
You do it to yourself. Your religion/faith has so many holes in it, how the hell can it be the Word of God?
The Christian bible is rife with horrible, evil, demented ideas. It is the culminated Vulgate of Edited texts but it only demonstrates the times it was compiled. It is in NO WAY the word of any GOD. It is the word of several manipulative cultures being calculated and unified.

And I find it sad that you just can not start to calm down, and sit and discuss one topic at a time.
Why are you so scared to concentrate on facts?
Give us these Horrible, evil, demented ideas, and lets see what you are referring too.

If I were to say, Atheists killed more than 100 million people in the last century, I will not follow up with an unfounded insinuation that atheist are murders!
I will use facts and show you what Stalin, Pot Pol, Maotse Dong, and others such as Chesesco did.

I mean, just talking in general is obvious a sign that someone wants to generalise to paint a false picture as truth.
Dont you agree?

 

['Amir Alzzalam]

And I find it sad that you just can not start to calm down, and sit and discuss one topic at a time.
Why are you so scared to concentrate on facts?
Give us these Horrible, evil, demented ideas, and lets see what you are referring too.

If I were to say, Atheists killed more than 100 million people in the last century, I will not follow up with an unfounded insinuation that atheist are murders!
I will use facts and show you what Stalin, Pot Pol, Maotse Dong, and others such as Chesesco did.

I mean, just talking in general is obvious a sign that someone wants to generalise to paint a false picture as truth.
Dont you agree?

Reply removed at user's own request