God is very forgiving!

OupaPiet said:
And I find it sad that you just can not start to calm down, and sit and discuss one topic at a time.
Why are you so scared to concentrate on facts?
Give us these Horrible, evil, demented ideas, and lets see what you are referring too.

If I were to say, Atheists killed more than 100 million people in the last century, I will not follow up with an unfounded insinuation that atheist are murders!
I will use facts and show you what Stalin, Pot Pol, Maotse Dong, and others such as Chesesco did.

I mean, just talking in general is obvious a sign that someone wants to generalise to paint a false picture as truth.
Dont you agree?
Click to expand...
Reply removed at user's own request
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Thomas said:
No, actually, that interpretation falters ... as you will know, your origin of the God is not universally accepted, and creates a lot of problems along the way. It's generally acknowledged, but not universally.

Most significantly, is that you make no account of the change in how God is understood from its primitive origins as a War God, through monolatry and thence to the monotheism of 2nd Temple Judaism, a journey of a thousand years.

As an example, what do you make of the Hebrew deity ʼĒl ʻElyōn' (cf Genesis 14:18-20) generally translated as 'God Most High, maker of heaven and earth'?

This would appear to be the God of Melchizedek, king of Salem.

Psalms 78:35: "And they remembered that God [ʼĒlōhīm] was their rock, and the high God [ʼĒl ʻElyōn] their redeemer."

Deuteronomy 32:8 appears to identify ʽElyōn with ’Elohim, but not necessarily with Yahweh. It can be read to mean that ʽElyōn separated mankind into 70 nations according to his 70 sons, each son the tutelary deity over one of the 70 nations, one of whom is Yazhweh, the God of Israe.

Alternatively, it may mean that ʽElyōn, having given the other nations to his sons, takes Israel for himself under the name of the Tetragrammaton. Both interpretations have supporters.

In Isaiah 14:13–14 the rebellious prince of Babylon says: "I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God (El) ... I will be like the most High (ʽElyōn)."

Elsewhere the relationship is different, 2 Samuel 22:14 suggests YHWH over Elyōn. as does Psalm 97:9:
"For you, Lord [YHWH], are Most High [ʽelyōn] over all the earth; you are raised high over all the gods."

+++

So the picture is nowhere near as simple or as static as you seem to insist.
Click to expand...
Reply removed at user's own request
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Tone Bristow-Stagg said:
There is no reason you should even reply to this OP, nor my reply

God is indeed very forgiving.

It is men that write the future by their own choices. The violence in the Bible is written by those that carried out those atrocious acts.

God gives us the laws and guidance that could at any time, if we accept, become God's Kingsom on Earth as it is in Heaven.

Then God also tells us the results of the rejection, what calamities that will befall us.

That knowledge is not the cause, our choices are the cause of human suffering.

Regards Tony
Click to expand...
Reply removed at user's own request
 
Last edited by a moderator:
muhammad_isa said:
It's not difficult to understand.
Jesus was a Jew, and he attended the temple in Jerusalem.
The first people who believed that Jesus was the promised messiah sent by God were Jews.
There .. that wasn't hard was it.


Almighty God is the Best of Planners. Yeshua was sent by God to teach and warn.
Click to expand...
Reply removed at user's own request
 
Last edited by a moderator:
'Amir Alzzalam said:
..Yahweh was a North Arabian War God who was worshiped by the Semitic tribes living near the Gulf of Aqaba originating with the Midianite, Hebrew, Moabite, and Edomite tribes of southern Jordan and Palestine..
Click to expand...
That's total nonsense..
YHWH [God] is Eternal .. He neither "was" or "will be".

What is in a name?
One could say that God used to be a norse god .. it's twaddle.
 
'Amir Alzzalam said:
You do understand grammar and spelling, right?
The keyword in your attempt to refute me is 'WAS' . . . WAS a Jew.
Click to expand...
You know very well what I mean .. you are just being pedantic.
Jesus was a Jew .. is a Jew .. followed the Torah .. whatever.

'Amir Alzzalam said:
Judaism does not accept the idea of Yeshua being a Messiah or Son of Yahweh.
Click to expand...
"Judaism" is a religion that takes the Torah as their scripture.
Most modern Jews do not accept Jesus as the messiah.
..but many did in the time of Jesus .. they did not stop being Jews ..
..they worshiped in the temple in Jerusalem.

'Amir Alzzalam said:
Christianity had to have started when Yeshua broke from Judaic tradition and began his own Cult.
Click to expand...
That's complete 'bull'
Most scholars know that this is false. Jesus claimed to be the promised mesiah.
He did NOT break away from Judaic tradition.
 
'Amir Alzzalam said:
"God is indeed very forgiving." . . . I'm afraid I have given multiple replies regarding retaliation and punishment from this Abrahamic god. Very little forgiveness in the texts. Do any of you actually read the Christian bible?
Click to expand...
Yes, but in the knowledge of God given by Baha'u'llah.

All the punishments and retribution noted in the Bible are a result of our choices. God knows what those choices will be and records them.

It is quite a simple concept, the Most Great Peace given by God is always available. God warns us of our choices and what will result.

Regards Tony
 
muhammad_isa said:
That's total nonsense..
YHWH [God] is Eternal .. He neither "was" or "will be".

What is in a name?
One could say that God used to be a norse god .. it's twaddle.
Click to expand...
Reply removed at user's own request
 
Last edited by a moderator:
muhammad_isa said:
You know very well what I mean .. you are just being pedantic.
Jesus was a Jew .. is a Jew .. followed the Torah .. whatever.


"Judaism" is a religion that takes the Torah as their scripture.
Most modern Jews do not accept Jesus as the messiah.
..but many did in the time of Jesus .. they did not stop being Jews ..
..they worshiped in the temple in Jerusalem.


That's complete 'bull'
Most scholars know that this is false. Jesus claimed to be the promised mesiah.
He did NOT break away from Judaic tradition.
Click to expand...
Reply removed at user's own request
 
Last edited by a moderator:
'Amir Alzzalam said:
Even better . . . then Christianity is nothing more than a heretical Judaism that was capitalized on by the Roman Empire. Pathetic faith.
Click to expand...
It's not pathetic.
Christianity proclaims belief in Jesus Christ.
The meaning of Christ is messiah.

Belief in God and Jesus is far from pathetic.
Belief, overall, instills good moral values in a person, and the Catholic faith is not insincere.
 
Poetry is awesome.

Sacred texts are a massive challenge to us human beings, it seems.

Sometimes I imagine a world where the predominant scripture of the Western world is the Iliad and the Theogony, with a "New Testament" of some philosopher's school that got lucky, maybe the Stoics.

We'd be having almost the exact same arguments here at Interfaith.org, only it would be about whether Zeus was a mature enough character to head the universe.

The poetry in the Iliad is still awesome, btw. As is Biblical poetry.
 
'Amir Alzzalam said:
There is something I can agree with you on here, and that is that the Jews and Christians both fashioned their God after an ancient pre-Islamic Arabian (3000 BC) deity. Yahweh was a North Arabian War God who was worshiped by the Semitic tribes living near the Gulf of Aqaba originating with the Midianite, Hebrew, Moabite, and Edomite tribes of southern Jordan and Palestine. Yahweh is a typical "divine warrior", He is a God of War, make no mistake.
Click to expand...
Your mistake is remaining stuck in an understanding that the text clearly shows it has outgrown.

Here's a parallel to help you understand:
About 2,400 years ago Democritus wrote about 'atomos', which means uncuttable. In his definition, all matter is eventually reducible to discrete, small particles, indeed the smallest particle of anything.

Now we have atomic theory. We have accelerators. We have quantum phenomena.

But you're banging on about the fact that Democritus said the atom is uncuttable, as if nothing has substantially changed since then, and that whatever we say today, his words still determine how atomic theory should be understood.
 
Cino said:
Sometimes I imagine a world where the predominant scripture of the Western world is the Iliad and the Theogony, with a "New Testament" of some philosopher's school that got lucky, maybe the Stoics.
Click to expand...

The Seleucid ruler Antiochus IV Epiphanes erected a statue of Zeus Olympios in the Judean Temple in Jerusalem.Hellenizing Jews referred to this statue as Baal Shamen (in English, Lord of Heaven). Zeus is also identified with the Hindu deity Indra. Not only they are the king of gods, but their weapon - thunder is similar.
Zeus - wikipedia

Egad .. Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image
 
muhammad_isa said:
Egad .. Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image
Click to expand...

The Temple Mount has had several structures erected on it, besides the First and Second Jewish Temples: Churches, the Dome of the Rock, the royal palace of a Crusader state, the headquarters of the Knights Templar, Al-Aqsa Mosque...

Ironically, it was a pagan Roman emperor, Julian the Apostate, who wanted to rebuild the Jewish Temple. This plan was never brought to fruition due to his early death.

Graven Images inside the Temple precincts: a couple of Cherubs on the Ark, bronze Bulls carrying a large basin, tapestries with depictions of animals inside the Temple - there were quite a few corner cases involved regarding this particular Law.
 
Last edited:
Thomas said:
Your mistake is remaining stuck in an understanding that the text clearly shows it has outgrown.

Here's a parallel to help you understand:
About 2,400 years ago Democritus wrote about 'atomos', which means uncuttable. In his definition, all matter is eventually reducible to discrete, small particles, indeed the smallest particle of anything.

Now we have atomic theory. We have accelerators. We have quantum phenomena.

But you're banging on about the fact that Democritus said the atom is uncuttable, as if nothing has substantially changed since then, and that whatever we say today, his words still determine how atomic theory should be understood.
Click to expand...
Reply removed at user's own request
 
Last edited by a moderator:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top