Sex and Religion...

As far as im concerned, you are allowed to look at the wife's vagina but it is preferred that you dont because of modesty, it isnt totally forbidden
 
some points about sex and spirituality

* main principle of pure path to develop love of god is to
* always think about God and never forget Him and
* to always please Him with all activities we perform

* it follows that:
* sex for procreating children that will be raised to develop love of God is pleasing to God
* sex for our own sense gratification will be the cause of forgetting the principle of doing everything for the pleasure of God
* it is the cause of materialistic life and increasing our thinking about other things than God and His service
* CONCLUSION: thus ones spiritual advancement becomes almost nil when indulging in sex for sense gratification.

* SOLUTION: one should sincerely endeavor to control the mind by fixing it on God;
* one should make endeavor to always use the senses in service of God
* RESULT: developing ones higher taste for spiritual activities one will not desire to unnecessarily indulge in sexual activity

* THE TEST: how much we develop attraction for pleasing God and how much we think about God instead of women is the barometer of our spiritual advancement
* as more we are thinking about God we certainly more love Him then sense gratification
* ULTIMATELLY one will be blessed to develop full and pure love of God

Hare Krishna.
 
Nitai said:
some points about sex and spirituality

* main principle of pure path to develop love of god is to
* always think about God and never forget Him and
* to always please Him with all activities we perform

* it follows that:
* sex for procreating children that will be raised to develop love of God is pleasing to God
* sex for our own sense gratification will be the cause of forgetting the principle of doing everything for the pleasure of God
* it is the cause of materialistic life and increasing our thinking about other things than God and His service
* CONCLUSION: thus ones spiritual advancement becomes almost nil when indulging in sex for sense gratification.

* SOLUTION: one should sincerely endeavor to control the mind by fixing it on God;
* one should make endeavor to always use the senses in service of God
* RESULT: developing ones higher taste for spiritual activities one will not desire to unnecessarily indulge in sexual activity

* THE TEST: how much we develop attraction for pleasing God and how much we think about God instead of women is the barometer of our spiritual advancement
* as more we are thinking about God we certainly more love Him then sense gratification
* ULTIMATELLY one will be blessed to develop full and pure love of God

Hare Krishna.
Click to expand...
h|,
I'll have my sex for sensual gratification as well thankyou. In Islam, sexual activity is a good thing as long as it is done with in it's prescribed framework. Fornication and adultery are strictly forbidden and highly punishable. Islam is against Monasticism. You can develop high levels of spirituality still. we live in this world and we should act like it.
 
munim_miah said:
As far as im concerned, you are allowed to look at the wife's vagina but it is preferred that you dont because of modesty, it isnt totally forbidden
Click to expand...
salaam,
The subject was discussed in the light of proof. After this, personal opinion has no weight either way. What do you mean by 'totally forbidden'? It is either forbidden or not. Bottom line is: its not forbidden and it was shown that this idea was based on a fabricated hadith. So, please lets not start this again. Thankyou.
 
** In Islam, sexual activity is a good thing as long as it is done with in it's prescribed framework.

-- Ok, but you have to see if the following of those rules result in developing your love for Allah. If not then something is wrong.
-- The idea is that one have to become gradually detached from this material world and become attached to God.
-- this is the test weather you developing love of God and spiritual taste for spiritual life.
-- these are simply universal principles for all
-- attachment / detachment. lust for material things or love for God
-- these two things go ill together.

** Fornication and adultery are strictly forbidden and highly punishable.
-- Good, I appreciate the principle.

** Islam is against Monasticism.
-- I did not say you should become a celibate monk, but as you also mentioned, be regulated.
-- Its important to choose what I mentioned above, attachment / detachment, lust or love.
-- I know it's difficult to hear about this but when you developing love for Allah everything is easy and joyful.

** You can develop high levels of spirituality still.
-- Ok, what are the symptoms of a person with high levels of spirituality.
-- How does he speak, how does he behave, what are his desires, what are his activities. How does he overcomes and why the temptations of this material world.

Your well-wisher
Nitai
Hare Krishna
 
Nitai said:
RESULT: developing ones higher taste for spiritual activities one will not desire to unnecessarily indulge in sexual activity
Click to expand...
Where do u draw the line? what's 'unnecessary' sex in the framework of marriage where the sexual appetite of two people is involved?
** In Islam, sexual activity is a good thing as long as it is done with in it's prescribed framework.

-- Ok, but you have to see if the following of those rules result in developing your love for Allah. If not then something is wrong.
-- The idea is that one have to become gradually detached from this material world and become attached to God.
-- this is the test weather you developing love of God and spiritual taste for spiritual life.
-- these are simply universal principles for all
-- attachment / detachment. lust for material things or love for God
-- these two things go ill together.
Click to expand...
Yes it works.. sexual desire is natural and Allaah has ordained the satisfaction of this desire through marriage. God knows us better than we know ourselves. He is our Creator. We follow His commands cause we know that they will benefit us whether science and technology or our own reasoning capabilities advance to that point where we can agree with it. he never said to us regarding sexual activity what you are saying. Though in this regard (especially when we are not married), we are told to fast... and we do fast, from dawn till sunset each year for a full month as an obligation which Allaah has ordained for the muslims. we can do extra ones as well if we wish. I read that other post you wrote about abstaining from food helping in lower sexual desire... Islam agrees with you in this regard and this is what the Prophet(pbuh) told us to do. BUT note that sexual activity in islam is not only about one person's desire but also about the satisfaction of the spouse... this is not a selfish act. This is part of one's love for another person.
Another thing regarding detaching oneself from the material world... this is what the Sufi movement was in the beginning & it sounds good but in the end, too many wrong things got into it, so what you r saying in this regard isnt anything new to us. Still, let me make something clear... islam teaches us practicality... we live in this world and it gives us the way to be prosperous in this world and the next (both)... we just have to follow the teachings (which, sadly, alot of us are not doing these days) and it makes us understand that this world is nothing compared to the hereafter and that we should not be caught up in it.As Muslims we have been told by our Messenger (pbuh) that this world is a transitionary period. The Prophet (pbuh) said: "Live in this world as if you are a stranger or a traveller" [Sahih Bukhaaree]
This life should be like a long journey on which we gather all that we need to get to our destination i.e. following Allaah's commands, which entails doing good deeds etc. This destination being the Hereafter and death the journeys end. Allah says in the Qur'an:
"But truly the home of the hereafter is the actual life, if only they knew" [Qur'an, 29:64]
"Every soul shall have a taste of death: And only on the Day of Judgment shall you be paid your full recompense. Only he who is saved far from the Fire and admitted to the Garden will have attained the object (of Life): For the life of this world is but goods and chattels of deception." [Qur'an, 3:185]
"Know ye (all), that the life of this world is but play and amusement, pomp and mutual boasting and multiplying, (in rivalry) among yourselves, riches and children. Here is a similitude: How rain and the growth which it brings forth, delight (the hearts of) the tillers; soon it withers; thou wilt see it grow yellow; then it becomes dry and crumbles away. But in the Hereafter is a Penalty severe (for the devotees of wrong). And Forgiveness from Allah and (His) Good Pleasure (for the devotees of Allah). And what is the life of this world, but goods and chattels of deception?" [Qur'an, 57:20]

- Ok, what are the symptoms of a person with high levels of spirituality.
-- How does he speak, how does he behave, what are his desires, what are his activities. How does he overcomes and why the temptations of this material world.
Click to expand...
You first as you came here to tell us about how to develop spirituality in some specific way which is in your mind.

And Allah knows best.
 
Hare Krishna

I hope you are well. Here are some further thoughts

**sexual desire is natural and Allah has ordained the satisfaction of this desire through marriage. God knows us better than we know ourselves. He is our Creator.
## as far as I know Adam and Eva were not created lusty. Not listening God's command they became lusty. actually everyone of as has the same story like Adam and Eva. That's why we are now here in this material world. This is, I heard, according to explanation eve of some Muslim theologians.
## So, originally no one was lusty or impure but we became because disobeying the commands of God
## the purpose of religion is to regain our original purity and thus become qualified to go back to the abode of God

**sexual activity in Islam is not only about one person's desire but also about the satisfaction of the spouse... this is not a selfish act. This is part of one's love for another person.
## the Vedic scriptures do not agree with this. Igniting taste for material enjoyment keeps you in illusion that you are this body and you have to enjoy the body.
## as long as you are thinking you are the body you cannot come up to the spiritual platform where you can understand: you are the soul; God and your eternal loving relationship with God.
## but bodily satisfaction has nothing to do with the soul and spiritual advancement.

** Islam teaches us practicality... we live in this world and it gives us the way to be prosperous in this world
## The Vedas do not have anything against material prosperity but its purpose is only to support spiritual advancement
## otherwise it becomes an impediment - leading one astray from God-realization.
## unfortunately, this is what happens nowadays more and more. you can see the evidence around yourself

### about temporarilty and transitory material world you gave a very nice quotes. Thank you
### I especially like this one: the life of this world is but goods and chattels of deception." [Qur'an, 3:185]
### The same opinion is there in the Vedic literature.
### therefore, one is not advised to try to enjoy material life
### one should know everything belongs to God and use everything in His service for His pleasure

** You came here to tell us about how to develop spirituality in some specific way which is in your mind.
And Allah knows best.
^^^ God is merciful to all human beings
^^^ He gives spiritual knowledge to all people all over the world
^^^ I am specifically following the Vedic spiritual culture
^^^ nothing I said was my way but God's way

# Here I would have to say much more but I will answer according to your kind replies
# Thank you for nice exchange.
 
Nitai said:
nothing I said was my way but God's way
Click to expand...
Please try to remember that you are on an interfaith forum, comprising a massive cross-section of various different faiths. To claim to represent God's way above all other paths is not something that will sit will here. :)

I appreciate that you probably mean well, but do try to remember your relative position in CR - one adherent of many paths represented here, many of which claim to be Absolute Truth, yet many in disagreement!
 
Hare Krishna.

I have a small remark on your vision. If you like you can think about it.

YOU WROTE: To claim to represent God's way above all other paths is not something that will sit will here.

# Christians say: Jesus is the only way
# Muslims say: Mohamed is the last prophet, we should follow Him
# I say: My way is God's way

# but I don't say: My way or highway.
# anyway, the real question is, how to reconcile all the above statements, still accepting them to be truth.

## there are many different kind of people all over the world
## they all have particular mentality
## God takes care of them
## God gives spiritual guidance for all of them according to the people's mentality, capacity, and degree of faith
## all the ways God gives, through his messengers or Himself when He comes on this earth planet, have the same goal
## to ultimately attain purity, love of God and thus go back to the spiritual world, the abode of God

CONCLUSION:
* this would be the way of seeing the universality of all religions
* therefore, to appreciate every-ones - only way - one should see the unity in diversity as above described.
* God is kind to all; He gives guidance to all
* I appreciate the ways of all; don't worry about that
 
Well to me the basic points for one following Islam and having questions abt the right sex are:

1- Sex only when both the man and woman are married.
2- No sex between two men or two women.
"For when a man mounts on a man, the God's throne shakes"
3- No anal intercourse let it be your wife.
4- No pre-marital sex (Zina one of the biggest sins in Islam) though teenagers or fresh youths dont really care about it..
5- No sex whilst you're fasting.
6- No forced sex.
7- You are not allowed to see your wife's vagina and to me it doesnt really provide any sexual attraction, so its better not to do the sin.
8- No sex in public, even if ure with you're with your wife.

However there are two questions that I really would like to no answers about..

1- Is the usage of condoms totally accepted under Islamic grounds?

2- Is it ok to have sex whilst your wife has a swollen stomach due to pregnancy.?
 
Hare Krishna

I would have few more thing but please don't be offended

# If one overindulges in sex just for sense gratification that's equal with going to a prostitute.
# second class sex not for procreation is allowed once a month
# the best is that one does it after the 3,4 days of the woman's 'period' only for the purpose of procreating and not for enjoying
# The intercourse have to be done in good consciousness or with the desire to please God by begetting a child who will be religious and of good character.
# while the sexual intercourse God sends a soul into the womb of the woman
# the mother and father they only give the material body
# when sex is done just to enjoy, a soul with a similar enjoying mentality will be attracted to the womb of the mother
# such a child will create a lot of problems being of not good character and most of the time irreligious
# What I am describing here is a fact seen in nowadays society's increasing irreligious population
# people don't know this art of begetting a child with a good character
CONCLUSION: in this way sex for sense gratification is understood to be not good.

NOTE: # sex during pregnancy is not allowed; it's abominable causing distress to the child in the womb
 
nomanshake said:
Well to me the basic points for one following Islam and having questions abt the right sex are:

7- You are not allowed to see your wife's vagina and to me it doesnt really provide any sexual attraction, so its better not to do the sin.
Click to expand...
salaam,
this is false. please go through the thread and you will find the proof that what you are saying is based on a FABRICATED hadith. Its just something made up.
And Allaah knows best.
 
Nitai said:
Hare Krishna.

I have a small remark on your vision. If you like you can think about it.

YOU WROTE: To claim to represent God's way above all other paths is not something that will sit will here.

# Christians say: Jesus is the only way
# Muslims say: Mohamed is the last prophet, we should follow Him
# I say: My way is God's way

# but I don't say: My way or highway.
# anyway, the real question is, how to reconcile all the above statements, still accepting them to be truth.

## there are many different kind of people all over the world
## they all have particular mentality
## God takes care of them
## God gives spiritual guidance for all of them according to the people's mentality, capacity, and degree of faith
## all the ways God gives, through his messengers or Himself when He comes on this earth planet, have the same goal
## to ultimately attain purity, love of God and thus go back to the spiritual world, the abode of God

CONCLUSION:
* this would be the way of seeing the universality of all religions
* therefore, to appreciate every-ones - only way - one should see the unity in diversity as above described.
* God is kind to all; He gives guidance to all
* I appreciate the ways of all; don't worry about that
Click to expand...
H|,
Looking for universality? you want an explanation of islam's relation to other religions? here is ours:
http://www.comparative-religion.com/forum/showthread.php?t=2182
read post #3.
And Allah knows best.
 
Hare Krishna

Sorry, but I think you didn't understood what I am thinking about universality. Let me little bit develop the thought about universality. And I beg you for forgiveness in advance if there will be anything you think is offensive.

ONE GOD
# There are 'many religions'
# is that mean that there are many God's? The Muslim God, the Christian God, the Hindu God etc. etc.
# No. there is only one God with many names.
# this is universal understanding.

ONE ACTIVITY - DEVOTIONAL SERVICE
# still, even if there is one God there are many religion
# No, there is only one religion, the religion of the soul
# the only religion of the soul is loving devotional service of God
# this is the essence of all religions
# to agree with this is atheism

ONE GOAL - PURIFICATION
# Yes, but we can see different rituals of in different religions, so obviously there are different religions, although the essence is the same
# different rituals are there only to help the support the essence of religion - loving devotional service to God.
# according to different mentalities of people the religious teachers gave different rituals that help the people to become purified
# People should not fight which rituals are better - Muslim, christian Hindu or whatever - because all the rituals have the same goal.
# so, purification of existence is again universal

DESIGNATIONS - GOD AND RELIGIONS
# OK, there is one God. Is He Hindu, Muslim or Christian
# Neither of them,
# He is above all material designations, He is pure and transcendental

# The Vedas say, there are many universes, so many like the number of mustard seeds in a big bag - countless.
# In each universes there are many planets
# everywhere there are living entities with their particular religion
# all the material designations to those religions belong only to the material world
# whoever accepts material designations like Hindu, Muslim, christian etc will immediately be in duality of illusion
# that will result in fight, quarrell, etc.
# History proofs the Vedic statement to be truth.
# the pure religion of the soul is called - the 'transcendental loving service to God'
# It is the eternal loving activity for the pleasure of God
# and it is unifying for all those souls who like to please God
# the proof of loving God is the cooperation of people to serve God
# this could be attained only when people would give up their material designation "I am Hindu", I am Muslim", "I am Christian".
# Such existence without material designation is the transcendental existence where pure loving service to God can begin.

OK, there are more points but maybe next time. Salam alekum my brother.
 
Hare raam and hare krishna.
Natai,
If you could stop writing in points,maybe i can have some discussion with you.
 
Hare Krishna, brother

Can you explain why should I stop write in points?
You don't like any or something else.
Actually, I like to more discuss only philosophy then to show up with some feelings in my writing. It's my stile, difficult to change. But anyway all the best just try to develop your love for God. And that you know whether you are advancing would recommend to you to find somewhere the symptoms of love of God. How much those symptoms appear so much ones love is developed. Success.
 
Hare kirshna,brother(assuming).

What i know is a point should be complete.It should have minimum relation with the previous point.But your point seem to be incomplete if we don't read the previous point.Let's look at eg.

# whoever accepts material designations like Hindu, Muslim, christian etc will immediately be in duality of illusion
# that will result in fight, quarrell, etc.
Click to expand...
I mean this is just single point,you made it two points.I don't have prob reading points but reading points like this is annoying.Btw use 1,2,3..instead of # and quote other ppl msg by using quotation tags,Finally pardon me for excessive criticization,as i am only being honest with you.

If your writing in points your each point should be complete in it's own context.
 
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