Religious Beliefs and Morality

[restored&adopted]

The thief on the cross only believed and Jesus told him that in that day he would be with Him in paradise. He did no works.. he did not follow the law of Moses he merely believed that Jesus was who He said He was. You believe in a works based Salvation denying the entirety of what His sacrifice on the cross did. He died so we would not die. It's nothing we do or can ever do. His Grace is sufficient. IMO

Might I suggest introducing yourself in the introduction thread?

Sorry I will make some introductions I have a bad habit of reading manuals from the back to front

Exactly as Yahusha saw in his heart that he repented and he believed in Him as the Son of Eloah. Watch out for the "trap" of obedience being a "curse" or "not required" as Scripture tells us that only those who obey Him will enter into the Kingdom. We are not justified because of our works but only through the Blood of The Lamb. But one cannot be sancified without works and together it leads to righteousness and eventually to glorification.
Yes His grace is enough we cannot expect Him to obey and walk on our behalf.
Yahusha did not say our place is already prepared but if you read the original Scripture you will notice He said we have to WALK (halak) to prepare a place for us. And IF we (not Him) walk (in the Narrow Way) to prepare a place He will come again to receive us.
The rulers of our time has controlled the printing press for long before our time and people tend to forget the blood that was spilled to create religions and "holy" books.

 

[restored&adopted]

I cannot even tell you how many times I've backslid in my life. Never once would I ever believe I lost my salvation as He promised to never leave or forsake me.. that I would never fall a fatal fall.. that He would leave the 99 to find me. That I am His. How scary and insecure it would feel if God loved me conditionally as long as I lived a sinless perfect life. Scripture teaches that if you are guilty of one sin you are guilty of them all. I am a sinner through and through. I try to be Christ like but I fail Him all the time.

In the dictionary, Grace is defined as courteous goodwill. Meaning, it’s not asked for nor deserved, but is freely given. Mercy, on the other hand, is the compassion and kindness shown to someone whom it is in one’s power to punish or harm. It is an act meant to relieve someone of their suffering

My brother I understand what you are saying and it is a road we have to travel until the end and with gratitude as without trials we cannot better ourselves BUT we do not have to backslide. Trust/Obey His Word to stand righteous in His eyes as He is the Giver of the Gifts. That is what religion was setup to do, to deceive so that the adversary has authority to temp you. If you want to stop backsliding focus on the Truth which is the Light in the middle of the Menorah and not the others 6.

 

[restored&adopted]

@restored&adopted -

Just curious how and why you chose as your translation of choice The Scriptures 2009.

Because it Restores the Name above Names which is required for Reverance and Reverence for Wisdom and Wisdom for understanding.

 

[restored&adopted]

James 2:10 For whoever keeps the whole law but fails in one point has become guilty of all of it.

Transgressing the law is transgressing the law. You would be a transgressor of the law. Easier to just say a sin is a sin.

Yacob is correct and He means that one cannot justify sin by pointing out more serious sin. There's a reason why the love of Elohim is the first commandment and why the love of ones fellow man is second. Yahusha said to the Pharisees that their ignorance of the beggar sleeping in the street while they sleep in their comfort beds are a bigger offence than the beggar stealing to eat.

 

[restored&adopted]

T

It's an ancient and lang-standing tradition that contemplation of nature – the world – can lead to wisdom and understanding.

Around the 6BC, philosophers no longer viewed natural phenomena as the result of free-acting, omnipotent gods. Rather, natural forces resided within nature, which was an integral part of a created world, and appeared under certain conditions that had little to do with the manipulative tendencies of personal deities.

In the Christian Tradition there are two books – the Book of Nature and the Bible.

There is talk of nature as 'general revelation' and the Bible as 'special revelation' concerned with God's reconciling the world to Himself.

The Psalmist says: “The heavens declare the glory of God; the skies proclaim the work of his hands ... “their voice goes out into all the earth, their words to the ends of the world” (Psalm 19:1, 4).

St Paul said: “For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities – his eternal power and divine nature – have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse” (Romans 1:20).

Thank you for explaining. I guess that is makes sense for wisdom of the worldly matters.
Creation by itself does proclaim His greatness (hence the rulers of our time is trying to disqualify creation)
Life is not in the light but Light in the life.

 

[RabbiO]

Yacob is correct and He means that one cannot justify sin by pointing out more serious sin. There's a reason why the love of Elohim is the first commandment and why the love of ones fellow man is second. Yahusha said to the Pharisees that their ignorance of the beggar sleeping in the street while they sleep in their comfort beds are a bigger offence than the beggar stealing to eat.

I might make a comment about how the Pharisees are portrayed in Christian scripture, but I won't. It is plain to me that our understandings about a great many things are very, very different. It's not that I can't be confrontational. My last secular position, in a legal position with a government agency which I will not name, required it of me. I do not, however, bring that to interfaith conversations. I originally became active in forums because all too often there was no one to offer A Jewish perspective. I say A Jewish perspective because very often there is no one position that can be called THE Jewish perspective. I became active on forums because too often I noted that there was no one to reply when either Jews or Judaism were misrepresented, whether or not that misrepresentation was deliberate or was simply due to ignorance.

I do welcome you to the forum, but you and I may not be interacting very often.

 

[Faithfulservant]

There is a lot here. I would argue that Mattias was chosen to replace Judas by the other disciples as they cast lots to choose him .. unlike the fact that Jesus Himself chose the others personally. I would further argue that Jesus personally chose Paul on the road to Damascus and invalidated the disciples choice.

I'm also confused by what is a fake jew?

Alot of the language you use is confusing to me so please be patient with me. English is a perfectly acceptable language to God. Many in this world know the name of Jesus as it is a favorite curse word. If that is not a name acceptable by Him I would question why the world so loves to profane it.

 

[Faithfulservant]

Because it Restores the Name above Names which is required for Reverance and Reverence for Wisdom and Wisdom for understanding.

This bothers me on a few points because it is saying that for the last 2000 years everyone has had it completely wrong and that The Scriptures 2009 compiled by the Institute for Scripture Research has the truth. I did some research and discovered that 116 verses were deleted and that scripture was even changed on a few occasions. You tube and google were my resources.

Whatever leads someone closer to Jesus is fine with me.. even legalism is ok with me if it strengthens someone's walk. I do not feel that it is for me and I thank you for attempting to correct me if you feel I'm in error. As All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness. However denying Paul as chosen by Jesus and his conversion on the road to Damascus as provided in the Book of Acts..I can't agree with. God has spoken to me many times and I've been fed more times than I can count on Paul's words. The book of Romans is especially vital to me in my walk.

God Bless you.

 

[RabbiO]

@restored&adopted -

On the other hand, if you are going where I think you are going with your comment about “fake” Jews, it will, not may, will, get very unpleasant here very quickly. Of course if I am misreading your remark I will admit to the error and apologize.

 

[TheLightWithin]

I might make a comment about how the Pharisees are portrayed in Christian scripture, but I won't. It is plain to me that our understandings about a great many things are very, very different. It's not that I can't be confrontational. My last secular position, in a legal position with a government agency which I will not name, required it of me. I do not, however, bring that to interfaith conversations. I originally became active in forums because all too often there was no one to offer A Jewish perspective. I say A Jewish perspective because very often there is no one position that can be called THE Jewish perspective. I became active on forums because too often I noted that there was no one to reply when either Jews or Judaism were misrepresented, whether or not that misrepresentation was deliberate or was simply due to ignorance.

I do welcome you to the forum, but you and I may not be interacting very often.

I for one really appreciate getting a Jewish perspective.
I am not Jewish, nor even formally Noahide, but am inclined towards the theology.

 

[RJM]

Jer 31:33 “For this is the covenant I shall make with the house of Yisra’ěl after those days, declares יהוה: I shall put My law in their inward parts, and write it on their hearts. And I shall be their Elohim, and they shall be My people.

To me this emphasises the distinction between following the spirit of the law or just the written letter of the law, and . All tribes had mores to protect and increase the strength of the tribe. But divine law goes beyond and sometimes seems to contradict natural law. Christ demonstrated the true eternal divine law of Spirit. He showed to see beyond the letter of the law, for fear of retribution or damage -- to an inner understanding. In parables like the good Samaritan, Christ extended God's love beyond the tribe, to all humanity.

The rulers of our time has controlled the printing press for long before our time and people tend to forget the blood that was spilled to create religions and "holy" books.

The printing press arrived at the same time as Martin Luther. When Luther added one word to scripture -- changing 'by faith' to 'only by faith' there was an outcry. The Book of Isaiah buried with the Dead Sea scrolls more than 2000 years ago, is identical to the text we have today. Could it be the Scripture 2009 version that is really guilty of changing the Bible?

If you want to stop backsliding focus on the Truth which is the Light in the middle of the Menorah and not the others 6.

This reminds me of the parable about the 'religious professional' standing in the high place in the temple thanking God that he is not like other people -- the cheaters, sinners and adulterers. He thanks God that he is not like the tax collector who stood at a distance and dared not even lift his eyes to heaven as he prayed. Instead, he beat his chest in sorrow, saying, ‘O God, be merciful to me, for I am a sinner.'

Christ says: "I tell you, this sinner (not the other) returned home justified before God. For those who exalt themselves will be humbled, and those who humble themselves will be exalted.”(Luke 18:9-14)

Lies. (Scripture does not kill but teaches us to avoid the first and the second death) David had the indwelling of the Ruach and delighted in Scripture. (And so should all His children)
Without Scripture anyone "wielding" spirits can claim to speak the truth.

That's not what Paul is saying, in context. He is talking about the written text as the shell of the nut, which itself is dry wood. imo

And know that I disregard nothing as the Word is not limited to "doctrines" and understanding of man.

Isn't that exactly what Paul is explaining: it is the Spirit of the law that gives life?

Paul was the chosen apostle according to himself. Where are the witnesses?

Paul was the first Christian writer, before the gospels. He spent time with Peter and James; they accepted him. A person can choose to disbelieve that Paul was knocked off his horse and blinded by the revelation from the risen Christ that he received -- but others believe that's the way it happened. It is as @muhammad_isa says, a matter of belief?

(edited)

 

[Thomas]

I guess that is makes sense for wisdom of the worldly matters.

As above, so below.

Creation by itself does proclaim His greatness

I rather think it's a matter of perception and insight.

To see a World in a Grain of Sand
And a Heaven in a Wild Flower,
Hold Infinity in the palm of your hand
And Eternity in an hour.
(Blake Auguries of Innocence lines 1-4)

 

[restored&adopted]

This bothers me on a few points because it is saying that for the last 2000 years everyone has had it completely wrong and that The Scriptures 2009 compiled by the Institute for Scripture Research has the truth. I did some research and discovered that 116 verses were deleted and that scripture was even changed on a few occasions. You tube and google were my resources.

Whatever leads someone closer to Jesus is fine with me.. even legalism is ok with me if it strengthens someone's walk. I do not feel that it is for me and I thank you for attempting to correct me if you feel I'm in error. As All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness. However denying Paul as chosen by Jesus and his conversion on the road to Damascus as provided in the Book of Acts..I can't agree with. God has spoken to me many times and I've been fed more times than I can count on Paul's words. The book of Romans is especially vital to me in my walk.

God Bless you.

You need to read the prophecies to understand the signs and the Truth as it is the Word of Elohim speaking and not the prophets themselves. The prophecies have been foretelling the coming of the apostacy before The Messiah came and it also tells us that in the last days we would worship in Truth and in Ruach and not just in Ruach. People had it wrong since the beginning of time hence it was necessary to establish and renew His Covenant on more than one occassion. This is why The Word said "There comes a time and is now" The early and the latter rains.

All Truth comes through the Ruach and there is One Word (but multiple Bibles?) If one try to prove the legitamacy of a Bible (which are all translations) to the Word of Elohim you need to learn Hebrew as you will have to throw all of them out.

"Complete Scripture" is Truth. Once it is altered it cannot be accepted as Truth, hence the importance of needing "ears to hear"

All Scripture from Elohim is breathed out by Him, writings by man breathed out by man. Translations not breathed out at all.

As I said before you need to read the prophecies and ALL scripture (and not what a "council" or a "church" decides what is and what is not Scripture) Once you do this you will know why Paul was called. Test everything.

Renewal of the mind is required to come out of the snare of religious thinking. Same thing that happened after the 2nd Temple.
The veil was put in place by Elohim not the adversary and we need a heart of flesh before He lifts it.

May Yah bless you too.

 

[Faithfulservant]

You need to read the prophecies to understand the signs and the Truth as it is the Word of Elohim speaking and not the prophets themselves. The prophecies have been foretelling the coming of the apostacy before The Messiah came and it also tells us that in the last days we would worship in Truth and in Ruach and not just in Ruach. People had it wrong since the beginning of time hence it was necessary to establish and renew His Covenant on more than one occassion. This is why The Word said "There comes a time and is now" The early and the latter rains.

All Truth comes through the Ruach and there is One Word (but multiple Bibles?) If one try to prove the legitamacy of a Bible (which are all translations) to the Word of Elohim you need to learn Hebrew as you will have to throw all of them out.

"Complete Scripture" is Truth. Once it is altered it cannot be accepted as Truth, hence the importance of needing "ears to hear"

All Scripture from Elohim is breathed out by Him, writings by man breathed out by man. Translations not breathed out at all.

As I said before you need to read the prophecies and ALL scripture (and not what a "council" or a "church" decides what is and what is not Scripture) Once you do this you will know why Paul was called. Test everything.

Renewal of the mind is required to come out of the snare of religious thinking. Same thing that happened after the 2nd Temple.
The veil was put in place by Elohim not the adversary and we need a heart of flesh before He lifts it.

May Yah bless you too.

Sorry I'm still not buying into TS2009. 116 verses removed from Psalms is a deal breaker for me. I think maybe you have fallen into apostasy? What you are saying sounds religious to me and I am not a religious person I have a deep personal relationship with my Lord. I am a sinner that recognizes a need for a Savior. I know that Jesus died for the sins of the world He would not allow His Word to become so unrecognizable that the entire church age would fall into it. He told His disciples to go out into the world and share the gospel and that is what was done. Starting with the Book of Acts and ending with Revelation. Anything that teaches another gospel than John 3:16 is a false gospel. Imo

 

[restored&adopted]

I might make a comment about how the Pharisees are portrayed in Christian scripture, but I won't. It is plain to me that our understandings about a great many things are very, very different. It's not that I can't be confrontational. My last secular position, in a legal position with a government agency which I will not name, required it of me. I do not, however, bring that to interfaith conversations. I originally became active in forums because all too often there was no one to offer A Jewish perspective. I say A Jewish perspective because very often there is no one position that can be called THE Jewish perspective. I became active on forums because too often I noted that there was no one to reply when either Jews or Judaism were misrepresented, whether or not that misrepresentation was deliberate or was simply due to ignorance.

I do welcome you to the forum, but you and I may not be interacting very often.

Please do not mind me by holding back comments as I do not know everything (even if Paul says I do)
I know that all His children sit with a piece of the puzzle and that is the ultimate test of the Love of El Elyon, to see if we can love one another as He loves us. Only once we have done that and we have choosen a side can the Kingdom come.

Sorry if I came across as offensive regarding the term Pharisees. I know exactly what you mean with the Christian portrayal and just like one cannot discredit the Pharisees due to rotten individuals one cannot do that with any religion or group.
If one reads in depth one would see that Yahusha spoke highly of the righteousness of the Pharisees. He only had a problem with the hypocrites.

Yes we have different outlooks on life as we have different backgrounds. I am not here to bad mouth anyone's beliefs.

The pride of Yerushalem is common to all the daughters.

I guess my previous posts is the one unsettling you about the Jews who says they are Jews but they are not.
That has nothing to do with perspective though (but it does have influence on religion), so I also do not see any need to discuss it.

My understanding (and it is universal to all peoples, religions, institutions etc. on the Earth) is that if one comes from the tribe of Yahudah that does not automatically means you follow Judaism and if you follow Judaism it does not mean that you come from the tribe of Yahudah.

Even if you think you may understand me I know why you felt you had to represent your people or even your religion.
Even in Scripture El Elyon warns those who despises Yahudah and unfortunately in the world there are people who do while at the same time say the believe in the Messiah who Himself comes from Yahudah.

 

[restored&adopted]

@restored&adopted -

On the other hand, if you are going where I think you are going with your comment about “fake” Jews, it will, not may, will, get very unpleasant here very quickly. Of course if I am misreading your remark I will admit to the error and apologize.

I only saw this reply now. I was not going anywhere but actually trying to point out the confusion in history by the understanding that Christian teachings brought into Scripture. Mostly because Paul said they do not need to read the "Old Testament" and they should not get involved in discussions about the chosen bloodline but rather be a "paristemi" Because of this most Christians cannot differentiate between Israel (My understanding IsarEl but maybe you can help with that) and Yahudah. If one do not understand the history one cannot follow the Will of El Elyon.

That said and not to start anything. Paul always says he is a Jew, but if one go deeper into his history there are red flags popping up everywhere.
So if "a Jew" tells one that Circumcision is a curse and mutilation then they must be right becuase they are a Jew? Never ever has the Creator called circumcision mutilation....

 

[Faithfulservant]

You need to read the prophecies to understand the signs and the Truth as it is the Word of Elohim speaking and not the prophets themselves. The prophecies have been foretelling the coming of the apostacy before The Messiah came and it also tells us that in the last days we would worship in Truth and in Ruach and not just in Ruach. People had it wrong since the beginning of time hence it was necessary to establish and renew His Covenant on more than one occassion. This is why The Word said "There comes a time and is now" The early and the latter rains.

All Truth comes through the Ruach and there is One Word (but multiple Bibles?) If one try to prove the legitamacy of a Bible (which are all translations) to the Word of Elohim you need to learn Hebrew as you will have to throw all of them out.

"Complete Scripture" is Truth. Once it is altered it cannot be accepted as Truth, hence the importance of needing "ears to hear"

All Scripture from Elohim is breathed out by Him, writings by man breathed out by man. Translations not breathed out at all.

As I said before you need to read the prophecies and ALL scripture (and not what a "council" or a "church" decides what is and what is not Scripture) Once you do this you will know why Paul was called. Test everything.

Renewal of the mind is required to come out of the snare of religious thinking. Same thing that happened after the 2nd Temple.
The veil was put in place by Elohim not the adversary and we need a heart of flesh before He lifts it.

May Yah bless you too.

It's been pinging in my brain that the reason you may disregard the apostle Paul is because what he taught is contrary to what you say is the truth. It's like having a discussion with an atheist who disregards the bible as scripture and truth.. they are diametrically opposed to each other. The authority on which I speak is the entire Word of God and not just picking and choosing what to believe. I hope you understand.

 

[Faithfulservant]

I only saw this reply now. I was not going anywhere but actually trying to point out the confusion in history by the understanding that Christian teachings brought into Scripture. Mostly because Paul said they do not need to read the "Old Testament" and they should not get involved in discussions about the chosen bloodline but rather be a

That said and not to start anything. Paul always says he is a Jew, but if one go deeper into his history there are red flags popping up everywhere.
So if "a Jew" tells one that Circumcision is a curse and mutilation then they must be right becuase they are a Jew? Never ever has the Creator called circumcision mutilation....

Lol that's classic of taking scripture out of context

 

[muhammad_isa]

..The authority on which I speak is the entire Word of God and not just picking and choosing what to believe. I hope you understand.

I assume you mean "the Christian Bible", by "the entire word of God".
Of course, there WAS no Christian Bible in the time of Jesus.
It was centuries later, when certain texts were chosen to be "canonical",
and people pronounced heretics.

 

[restored&adopted]

There is a lot here. I would argue that Mattias was chosen to replace Judas by the other disciples as they cast lots to choose him .. unlike the fact that Jesus Himself chose the others personally. I would further argue that Jesus personally chose Paul on the road to Damascus and invalidated the disciples choice.

I'm also confused by what is a fake jew?

Alot of the language you use is confusing to me so please be patient with me. English is a perfectly acceptable language to God. Many in this world know the name of Jesus as it is a favorite curse word. If that is not a name acceptable by Him I would question why the world so loves to profane it.

I know it is a lot to chew on and His Scripture is so wonderful to search out.
I have also thought of that at some point. Mattias may not have been His choice?
And surely if they have received the indwelling of the Set-Apart Ruach they would not have needed to cast lots.

But Yahusha said to the apostles that they won't see Him anymore as He is going to His Father.
Yet Paul says he saw Him and there are no witnesses that speaks for themselves regarding this? In Scripture we learn that there are always at least 2 witnesses and the Water nor the Ruach witnesses for Paul.
Also Mattias was already following Yahusha even if he was not one of the 12 and did not knew all that the 12 knew.
Paul on the other hand went to Arabia for 3 years to receive his teaching....

Regarding the Name of the Father and the Son, as Scripture says it is for kings to search out.
I do not want to cause panic or confusion so will rather go into a PM discussion if you want to discuss it more.
All I will say here is that we know that there is one name under the heavens by which we should be saved and that leads to the Name above Names.
And it is not a specific pronounciation and mere calling out with our mouths but mainly in our spirit.
Even if we are deceived He cannot be deceived.