Religious Beliefs and Morality

[restored&adopted]

And they are available ..

Book of Mattitiyahu was written in Hebrew as the oldest version discovered.

Where is it?

Would be good to know.


Same applies to Hebrew. El is not uniquely Hebrew – pagan gods were called El.

True. Just like elohim also refers to the "gods"
"God" on the other hand is in Scripture and relates to Baal.

Isa 65:11 “But you are those who forsake יהוה, who forget My set-apart mountain, who prepare a table for Gad(god), and who fill a drink offering for Meni(many).
Isa 65:12 “And I shall allot you to the sword, and let you all bow down to the slaughter, because I called and you did not answer, I spoke and you did not hear, and you did evil before My eyes and chose that in which I did not delight.”
Isa 65:13 Therefore thus said the Master יהוה, “See, My servants eat, but you hunger; see, My servants drink, but you thirst; see, My servants rejoice, but you are put to shame;
Isa 65:14 see, My servants sing for joy of heart, but you cry for sorrow of heart, and wail for breaking of spirit.
Isa 65:15 “And you shall leave your name as a curse to My chosen, for the Master יהוה shall put you to death, and call His servants by another name,
Isa 65:16 so that he who blesses himself in the earth does bless himself in the Elohim of truth. And he who swears in the earth does swear by the Elohim of truth. Because the former distresses shall be forgotten, and because they shall be hidden from My eyes.

 

[restored&adopted]

You think that's why The Lord God chose the People of Israel – to divide and conquer?

"Lord Gd" means Baal.
They did not divide they entered the promised land and had to remove the threats that were standing in the way of the salvation of all creation.
Not sure why the question? A problem with the methods of The Creator? Or saying that He came to start a religion?

 

[Faithfulservant]

Acts 29

Anyone can say anything. The Mormons believe that after His resurrection Jesus went to the Americas. Why not believe that as well since someone said that happened?

 

[restored&adopted]

Anyone can say anything. The Mormons believe that after His resurrection Jesus went to the Americas. Why not believe that as well since someone said that happened?

Did you just compare the Messiah with Paul? I guess rhetoric is a powerful tool.

 

[Thomas]

In 2 Co 3:14 he says it was done away with and he is not talking about the Covenant but the "reading of the "diatheke"'

He does not say they do not need to read it as you claim. He's talking about a lack insight ... you have to read the text in context.

"Scholarships" are why people cannot understand Scripture and you need to understand why the Word has said what He said.

Ahh ... after decrying scholars, the next step is burning books.

 

[juantoo3]

Did you just compare the Messiah with Paul? I guess rhetoric is a powerful tool.

1 1437 [e] 1 Ean 1 Ἐὰν 1 If 1 Conj​

3588 [e] tais ταῖς in the Art-DFP​

1100 [e] glōssais γλώσσαις tongues N-DFP​

3588 [e] tōn τῶν - Art-GMP​

444 [e] anthrōpōn ἀνθρώπων of men N-GMP​

2980 [e] lalō λαλῶ , I speak V-PSA-1S​

2532 [e] kai καὶ and Conj​

3588 [e] tōn τῶν - Art-GMP​

32 [e] angelōn ἀγγέλων , of angels N-GMP​

26 [e] agapēn ἀγάπην love N-AFS​

1161 [e] de δὲ however Conj​

3361 [e] mē μὴ not Adv​

2192 [e] echō ἔχω , have V-PSA-1S​

1096 [e] gegona γέγονα I have become V-RIA-1S​

5475 [e] chalkos χαλκὸς a brass N-NMS​

2278 [e] ēchōn ἠχῶν , sounding V-PPA-NMS​

2228 [e] ē ἢ or Conj​

2950 [e] kymbalon κύμβαλον a cymbal N-NNS​

214 [e] alalazon ἀλαλάζον . clanging V-PPA-NNS​

1 Corinthians 13:1 Interlinear: If with the tongues of men and of messengers I speak, and have not love, I have become brass sounding, or a cymbal tinkling;

evidence of the Spirit, or lack thereof, is showing

 

[restored&adopted]

He does not say they do not need to read it as you claim. He's talking about a lack insight ... you have to read the text in context.


Ahh ... after decrying scholars, the next step is burning books.

Again, we will go round and round in circles "discussing" this as we will end up going through all of his writings. As I said before. Go and test ALL words (from the first to the last) of Paul's letters and compare it with those of The Word.

I must thank you for this discussion though as I have learned a deeper meaning about the veil and realised I need to look into it deeper.
Paul definitely saw a shadow of the physical veil and I can understand how one can read into that the old covenant will be replaced, but Moses did not climb backwards up the mountain and I'd reason that he covered his face to preserve the Glorious Presence of The Most High. (my opinion)
Or maybe it is something not to be interpreted and we will only understand when we stand in His Presence....

This almost seems to be that this is the "Scholarly" source of Christianity rejecting His commandments and Paul saying that the law brings death, which is a contradiction to what The Word says.




Scholars....

Luk 10:21 In that hour יהושע exulted in the Spirit and said, “I praise You, Father, Master of the heaven and of the earth, that You have hidden these matters from clever and learned ones, and did reveal them to babes. Yes, Father, because thus it was well-pleasing in Your sight.

Truth comes from the Ruach and not Scholars. Take the Most High's Name for instance. Why couldnt the "scholars" figure out over so many years that His Name should not be taken lightly?

 

[restored&adopted]

1 1437 [e] 1 Ean 1 Ἐὰν 1 If 1 Conj​

3588 [e] tais ταῖς in the Art-DFP​

1100 [e] glōssais γλώσσαις tongues N-DFP​

3588 [e] tōn τῶν - Art-GMP​

444 [e] anthrōpōn ἀνθρώπων of men N-GMP​

2980 [e] lalō λαλῶ , I speak V-PSA-1S​

2532 [e] kai καὶ and Conj​

3588 [e] tōn τῶν - Art-GMP​

32 [e] angelōn ἀγγέλων , of angels N-GMP​

26 [e] agapēn ἀγάπην love N-AFS​

1161 [e] de δὲ however Conj​

3361 [e] mē μὴ not Adv​

2192 [e] echō ἔχω , have V-PSA-1S​

1096 [e] gegona γέγονα I have become V-RIA-1S​

5475 [e] chalkos χαλκὸς a brass N-NMS​

2278 [e] ēchōn ἠχῶν , sounding V-PPA-NMS​

2228 [e] ē ἢ or Conj​

2950 [e] kymbalon κύμβαλον a cymbal N-NNS​

214 [e] alalazon ἀλαλάζον . clanging V-PPA-NNS​

1 Corinthians 13:1 Interlinear: If with the tongues of men and of messengers I speak, and have not love, I have become brass sounding, or a cymbal tinkling;

evidence of the Spirit, or lack thereof, is showing

Be it as it may. Reverence, or the lack thereof, is also showing. I used to be under that curse myself.

 

[Faithfulservant]

Did you just compare the Messiah with Paul? I guess rhetoric is a powerful tool.

That's what you thought I did? Ok

 

[restored&adopted]

That's what you thought I did? Ok

Not per se but questioning the validity of the Messiah is not the same as a self-proclaiming prophet. I understand your reasoning though. I am sorry and take it back as it is said in line with the discussion.

With that said. Discrediting Acts 29 but believing Paul's beheading from other sources is basically the same thing?

 

[Faithfulservant]

Not per se but questioning the validity of the Messiah is not the same as a self-proclaiming prophet. I understand your reasoning though. I am sorry and take it back as it is said in line with the discussion.

With that said. Discrediting Acts 29 but believing Paul's beheading from other sources is basically the

I accept you apology. But what I am taking from this just solidifies my my stance in not looking to other sources for truth. I do not accept Acts 29 as canon but in 2 Timothy 4 “For I am already being poured out as a drink offering, and the time of my departure has come. I have fought the good fight, I have finished the race, I have kept the faith. Henceforth there is laid up for me the crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous judge, will award to me on that Day, and not only to me but also to all who have loved his appearing.”

That definitely lets us know his death was imminent.

You accept Acts 29 but not Acts 9.
13 But Ananias answered, “Lord, I have heard from many about this man, how much evil he has done to your saints at Jerusalem. 14 And here he has authority from the chief priests to bind all who call on your name.” 15 But the Lord said to him, “Go, for he is a chosen instrument of mine to carry my name before the Gentiles and kings and the children of Israel. 16 For I will show him how much he must suffer for the sake of my name.” 17 So Ananias departed and entered the house. And laying his hands on him he said, “Brother Saul, the Lord Jesus who appeared to you on the road by which you came has sent me so that you may regain your sight and be filled with the Holy Spirit.” 18 And immediately something like scales fell from his eyes, and he regained his sight. Then he rose and was baptized; 19 and taking food, he was strengthened.

Once again I feel you discount what doesn't support your view by searching for other sources.

 

[Thomas]

As I said before. Go and test ALL words (from the first to the last) of Paul's letters and compare it with those of The Word.

And I find Paul's commentaries luminous.

I have learned a deeper meaning about the veil and realised I need to look into it deeper.

It is one of my enduring subjects – my realisation of the significance of the veil and its rending brought me back to Christianity.

For a while I hosted a website dedicated to it.

Paul definitely saw a shadow of the physical veil and I can understand how one can read into that the old covenant will be replaced, but Moses did not climb backwards up the mountain and I'd reason that he covered his face to preserve the Glorious Presence of The Most High. (my opinion)

It's all in the timing.

This almost seems to be that this is the "Scholarly" source of Christianity rejecting His commandments and Paul saying that the law brings death, which is a contradiction to what The Word says.

If you think Paul contradicts the Word, you misunderstand Paul – and certainly no scholar I have read suggests such.

Truth comes from the Ruach and not Scholars.

And where is your understanding of Ruach, if not from scholars?

Take the Most High's Name for instance. Why couldnt the "scholars" figure out over so many years that His Name should not be taken lightly?

Actually I have a few scholars in mind that speak most profoundly of the Divine Name ...

As ever, we seem to be exposed to different sources.

 

[FrankSophia]

I would suggest the only basis of religious morality is the direct application of union to relative events...

I think that prior to this we are still in darkness and thus even our best intentions can cause the worst outcomes...

That is why there is great wisdom in Matthew 6:24-36

First we learn that money and God are antagonistic, then we are told not to worry... but this closes by instructing us to first enter the kingdom, then all else will be added... for me this is the greatest issue with religion, we want to control the process because we don't trust grace.

 

[juantoo3]

Be it as it may. Reverence, or the lack thereof, is also showing. I used to be under that curse myself.

That would be an erroneous presumption. Not the first, I might add.

 

[restored&adopted]

I accept you apology. But what I am taking from this just solidifies my my stance in not looking to other sources for truth. I do not accept Acts 29 as canon but in 2 Timothy 4 “For I am already being poured out as a drink offering, and the time of my departure has come. I have fought the good fight, I have finished the race, I have kept the faith. Henceforth there is laid up for me the crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous judge, will award to me on that Day, and not only to me but also to all who have loved his appearing.”

That definitely lets us know his death was imminent.

You accept Acts 29 but not Acts 9.
13 But Ananias answered, “Lord, I have heard from many about this man, how much evil he has done to your saints at Jerusalem. 14 And here he has authority from the chief priests to bind all who call on your name.” 15 But the Lord said to him, “Go, for he is a chosen instrument of mine to carry my name before the Gentiles and kings and the children of Israel. 16 For I will show him how much he must suffer for the sake of my name.” 17 So Ananias departed and entered the house. And laying his hands on him he said, “Brother Saul, the Lord Jesus who appeared to you on the road by which you came has sent me so that you may regain your sight and be filled with the Holy Spirit.” 18 And immediately something like scales fell from his eyes, and he regained his sight. Then he rose and was baptized; 19 and taking food, he was strengthened.

Once again I feel you discount what doesn't support your view by searching for other sources.

Thank you. Assumptions cannot be taken as fact though and I trust in the Yahusha's words that the law and prophets are until Yochanan.
He commanded the disciples to go and proclaim the Joyful Message and teach people to obey the Commandments. There rest is the work of the Helper sent to do just that. There was no command to start churches (which comes from the goddess Circe) or ministries.

That is what I have been saying. Put aside Paul's "inspired" teachings for a minute and test Paul's versions of his testimonies against the others in the Bible. Also verify what he "quotes" from Scripture to the actual verse he quotes. Then always test and verify his teaching with that what is taught by The Word of Elohim.

I do not say Acts 9 did not happen. I just follow One Shepherd's voice. And He says there should be at least 2 witnesses and to not put my trust in an arm of flesh.

With Phillipus going to the cities of Samaria against the Messiah's command you should realise that there are 2 "gospels".
Also in Acts it shows us Ananias and Sapphira's retribution with the death which does not make sense as under the new Covenant Judgement comes at the end.....

 

[Thomas]

Where is it?

The Vatican Library? Like any Library, the books are available. They're also being digitised. Depends what books you're looking for.

Would be good to know.

That's what I'm asking you – where is this Hebrew gospel you claim?

True. Just like elohim also refers to the "gods"
"God" on the other hand is in Scripture and relates to Baal.

Baal? I'm not sure about that ...

 

[restored&adopted]

And I find Paul's commentaries luminous.


It is one of my enduring subjects – my realisation of the significance of the veil and its rending brought me back to Christianity.

For a while I hosted a website dedicated to it.


It's all in the timing.


If you think Paul contradicts the Word, you misunderstand Paul – and certainly no scholar I have read suggests such.


And where is your understanding of Ruach, if not from scholars?


Actually I have a few scholars in mind that speak most profoundly of the Divine Name ...

As ever, we seem to be exposed to different sources.

brought me back to Christianity.

...can you not see it? It is ingrained into us and we can be free to serve One Master.

If you think Paul contradicts the Word, you misunderstand Paul – and certainly no scholar I have read suggests such.

Re-Read

And where is your understanding of Ruach, if not from scholars?

From the Ruach as the Ruach speaks what the Father says. Getting understanding from scholars leads to death.

As ever, we seem to be exposed to different sources.

We are supposed to be using One source, it is through religion our eyes gets taken off of that Source and we are left trying to hear His voice using smoke offerings. That is why we are exposed to different sources.

 

[restored&adopted]

The Vatican Library? Like any Library, the books are available. They're also being digitised. Depends what books you're looking for.


That's what I'm asking you – where is this Hebrew gospel you claim?


Baal? I'm not sure about that ...

The vatican only allow twice yearly visits and not all text are accessible.

Mattithayu is know for being written in Hebrew


Regarding other texts look on https://hebrewgospels.com for more proof of Hebrew hidden in the text.

The words Ba'al and Gd are right next to each other in the Hebrew text. The translators just translated it as Gad which has nothing to do with the tribe.

Also read the prophecy of Husha (Hosea). You will notice that calling Him by another name does not prevent Salvation as it says He will remove the name of Baal out of our mouths after Judgement day.

Do a comparison to the names in Scripture in Hebrew compared to the "Greek" versions and you will find that they have inserted a lot of "pagan" names to bring about a one world religion at that time at the cost of much blood, doing it in the name of Christ-us.
All Roman "enlightened" and chosen by the gods people had an -us added to the back of their name.


The outcome is a "strange flock" that Yahusha spoke about. He did pray that His flock and the strange flock should be one and He gave the warnings to the witnesses in the 7 Menorah, which is basically the last warning.

I dont want to go into too much depth as one need to focus on the Truth instead of the lies.
Read Proverbs 30:4 and Proverbs 25:2 and re-evaluate what you have been taught.
In the beginning it is hard but in time you will understand.
I'm off. Have a good weekend.

 

[Thomas]

The vatican only allow twice yearly visits and not all text are accessible.

Are you sure? Which texts?

Mattithayu is know for being written in Hebrew

Well according to Papias there was a Hebrew gospel – prabably a sayings document – but as you said there was a surviving text, I wondered where that was...

Regarding other texts look on https://hebrewgospels.com for more proof of Hebrew hidden in the text.

Trouble is, that can be retro-fitting.

Does it dispute the Greek texts ... any substantial differences regarding the claims based on Scripture?

The words Ba'al and Gd are right next to each other in the Hebrew text. The translators just translated it as Gad which has nothing to do with the tribe.

Examples, please.

Do a comparison to the names in Scripture in Hebrew compared to the "Greek" versions and you will find that they have inserted a lot of "pagan" names to bring about a one world religion at that time at the cost of much blood, doing it in the name of Christ-us.

Examples, please.

I dont want to go into too much depth as one need to focus on the Truth instead of the lies.

If you don't want to substantiate claims here, don't make them, because now it looks like you're copping out.

 

[Thomas]

We are supposed to be using One source, it is through religion our eyes gets taken off of that Source and we are left trying to hear His voice using smoke offerings. That is why we are exposed to different sources.

The trouble is, I think your One Source is your own opinion ...