The common thread

[Thinking required]

The common thread on this site when it comes to discussion about religions is the same as always. It always comes down to what people want to believe. Every Abrahamic Religion tries to say that the Jewish and Christian Scriptures (the Bible if you like) have all been corrupted and can not be relied on. Yet there is no factual proof to support this. Just to claim something is a lie or corrupt without support is dishonest. All I have ever asked is show me when it was changed and why you believe that it was changed. It's interesting, Muslims claim that a Book was given to Jesus, I believe it's referred to as the Injel (the Gospel of Jesus). There is no proof that Jesus every penned a Book and this only comes from the Quran. I am not trying to rag on just Muslims here, anyone outside of Christianity does this. Help me to prove the Bible is a lie, give me the proof.

 

[muhammad_isa]

Muslims claim that a Book was given to Jesus,.

Ever heard of an idiom?
I'm sure that you have.

I don't think that a book was literally given to Jesus .. as in a book descending from the sky.
Some Muslims may well believe that.
..but as you probably know, like many Christians, many have little knowledge .. we don't all have diplomas.

 

[Thinking required]

don't think that a book was literally given to Jesus .. as in a book descending from the sky.
Some Muslims may well believe that.
..but as you probably know, like many Christians, many have little knowledge .. we don't all have diplomas

I was just going on what I read in the Quran unless I misunderstood something. Every other book mentioned turns out to be a book. Yes, not all people who believe in the same Religon agree.

 

[wil]

Every Abrahamic Religion tries to say that the Jewish and Christian Scriptures (the Bible if you like) have all been corrupted and can not be relied on

Do what?

Every abrahamic religion?

 

[muhammad_isa]

I was just going on what I read in the Quran unless I misunderstood something..

Some people read the Bible, and take literal readings of everything [in English translation],
to the extent that they claim Adam 'poofed' in to being, and did not evolve.
Many Muslims believe likewise.

God knows best .. I do not know for sure.
I do know, that arguing over such things achieves nothing at all.

 

[Cino]

The common thread on this site when it comes to discussion about religions is the same as always. It always comes down to what people want to believe.

Yes. This is an interfaith dialogue forum. People who believe different things co.e here to discuss, compare, contrast, post recipes and cat pictures, and hopefully have a good time while realizing tbat for all our different beliefs, we're all able to get along and learn from each other.

Every Abrahamic Religion tries to say that the Jewish and Christian Scriptures (the Bible if you like) have all been corrupted and can not be relied on.

"Abrahamic" religions include Judaism and Christianity.

Help me to prove the Bible is a lie, give me the proof.

I don't think it's "a lie". I think it is a wonderful mix of mythology, wisdom literature, prophets' rants, poetry, some hagiographies, some really trippy texts - I like it. I would not want to base my world view on it, or take it literally.

But "a lie", no. That would be missing tbe point entirely. Literature is not "lies".

 

[juantoo3]

give me the proof.

What proof would ever be good enough for you?

 

[Thinking required]

Every abrahamic religion?

All religions that start with the Jewish texts and then make a religion using Abraham as authority. At least that is my understanding. Islam, Mormonism, Jehovah Wittnesses and I am sure there are more. Even Catholics if you like.

 

[Thinking required]

What proof would ever be good enough for you?

He said, she said. The problem is that there is proof Muhammad lived, he was not a very good person and he had 6 wives and led a bunch of men on raids. That's historic proof from Muslims themselves. Soon as Muhammad dies, people started killing each other trying to take control of Islam. Islam breaks up into two groups, both claiming to be the new heads of Islam. Should we just keep digging into the history books? I never have a problem with someone stating opinions, but when people start posting lies as truth, then it becomes a different. Most of these non Muslim Muslims don't even know the history of Muhammad or Islam. Why have so many Muslims left Muslim countries, because it's not a safe place to live and forces their lives under a military like control.

 

[juantoo3]

Most of these non Muslim Muslims don't even know the history of Muhammad or Islam. Why have so many Muslims left Muslim countries, because it's not a safe place to live and forces their lives under a military like control.

And most of these non Christian Christians don't even know the history of Christianity. Is that sufficient justification to throw the baby out with the bathwater?

If your opinions are given weight that other opinions are not allowed, then you are setting yourself up as Judge. With all due respect, when did G!d appoint you Judge over humanity? I may disagree with points from any faith, including my own I might add, but that doesn't give me the right to dismiss outright what good may be found.

 

[RJM]

Help me to prove the Bible is a lie, give me the proof.

Do you mean help you find anything untrue in the Bible? Or that the whole Bible is a lie? You seem to like to bash Muslims, who operate on the basis that their Quran is the inerrant word of God (in spite of inconsistencies) --and then you claim the same thing for the Bible?

 

[juantoo3]

Do you mean help you find anything untrue in the Bible? Or that the whole Bible is a lie? You seem to like to bash Muslims, who operate on the basis that their Quran is the inerrant word of God (in spite of inconsistencies) --and then you claim the same thing for the Bible?

That seems to be how it appears to me....

 

[RJM]

logging off now ...

 

[juantoo3]

The common thread on this site when it comes to discussion about religions is the same as always. It always comes down to what people want to believe.

You've not written words that were more true.

The question is whether or not you see this applied to yourself?

 

[Thinking required]

Do you mean help you find anything untrue in the Bible? Or that the whole Bible is a lie? You seem to like to bash Muslims, who operate on the basis that their Quran is the inerrant word of God (in spite of inconsistencies) --and then you claim the same thing for the Bible?

This is not exactly true. I have never claimed or stated that the Quran has anything to do with the Word of God. Yes, people have tried to tear the Bible text a part and find little inconsistencies. None of the "inconsistencies" in the Bible are of real importance to the validity. I would have to be very foolish to believe that their could not be inconsistencies in translations or in material used for translation. The Context of the Bible is validated by other context of the Bible, Books written years after another book but all contained in the Bible. The saying goes; Scripture interprets Scripture, never what you want it to say. If I don't like what it says, too bad. Most people just want to rip pages out and forget it.
Now, I have been told that Muhammad is mentioned in the text of the bible and the reference that they use is from the Book of John. Jesus speaking to His disciples and says.


5 “But now I am going to Him who sent Me; and none of you asks Me, ‘Where are You going?’
6 “But because I have said these things to you, sorrow has filled your heart.
7 “But I tell you the truth, it is to your advantage that I go away; for if I do not go away, the Helper will not come to you; but if I go, I will send Him to you.
8 “And He, when He comes, will convict the world concerning sin and righteousness and judgment;
9 concerning sin, because they do not believe in Me;
10 and concerning righteousness, because I go to the Father and you no longer see Me;
11 and concerning judgment, because the ruler of this world has been judged.
12 “I have many more things to say to you, but you cannot bear them now.
13 “But when He, the Spirit of truth, comes, He will guide you into all the truth; for He will not speak on His own initiative, but whatever He hears, He will speak; and He will disclose to you what is to come.
14 “He will glorify Me, for He will take of Mine and will disclose it to you.
15 “All things that the Father has are Mine; therefore I said that He takes of Mine and will disclose it to you.

New American Standard Bible: 1995 Update (La Habra, CA: The Lockman Foundation, 1995), Jn 16:5–15.

Muslims with claim that Jesus is speaking about Muhammad as the "Helper" here. Jesus is speaking about the Holy Spirit here, not Muhammad.

 

[Thinking required]

The question is whether or not you see this applied to yourself?

I have stated from the beginning, yes this applies to me also. I have always stated that we all believe lies, including me. It's only when people don't think this about their selves that problems arise in what they believe. The world if full of lies and liars. If people don't understand this, they have a problem wanting to believe that all people are good. Don't take the good as a blanket statement, since even a bad person and be good at times. As Paul of the Bible stated, "I am the chief of sinners". I belong in that statement also. I think it was G.K. Chesterton who replied to an newspaper article. "What's wrong with the world" and his reply was, I am!

 

[Cino]

Why have so many Muslims left Muslim countries, because it's not a safe place to live and forces their lives under a military like control.

Oh my. Your metaphoric fly is open. Want to zipper up? It's kind of gross like that.

 

[juantoo3]

I have stated from the beginning, yes this applies to me also. I have always stated that we all believe lies, including me. It's only when people don't think this about their selves that problems arise in what they believe. The world if full of lies and liars. If people don't understand this, they have a problem wanting to believe that all people are good. Don't take the good as a blanket statement, since even a bad person and be good at times. As Paul of the Bible stated, "I am the chief of sinners". I belong in that statement also. I think it was G.K. Chesterton who replied to an newspaper article. "What's wrong with the world" and his reply was, I am!

Would you believe differently if you were born in Outer Mongolia, or sub-Saharan Africa, or somewhere deep in the Amazon forest?

 

[Tony Bristow-Stagg]

The common thread on this site when it comes to discussion about religions is the same as always. It always comes down to what people want to believe. Every Abrahamic Religion tries to say that the Jewish and Christian Scriptures (the Bible if you like) have all been corrupted and can not be relied on. Yet there is no factual proof to support this. Just to claim something is a lie or corrupt without support is dishonest. All I have ever asked is show me when it was changed and why you believe that it was changed. It's interesting, Muslims claim that a Book was given to Jesus, I believe it's referred to as the Injel (the Gospel of Jesus). There is no proof that Jesus every penned a Book and this only comes from the Quran. I am not trying to rag on just Muslims here, anyone outside of Christianity does this. Help me to prove the Bible is a lie, give me the proof.

I would offer that the truth is only found in the Oneness of God and all the God given prophets and Messages.

Mankind has a tendency to corrupt the scriptures by adding their own interpretations.

The Bible and Quran give fair warning on this aspect of Faith, as do many other past scriptures.

Regards Tony

 

[Thinking required]

Would you believe differently if you were born in Outer Mongolia, or sub-Saharan Africa, or somewhere deep in the Amazon forest?

I am certain that I would believe differently. I have always said that we are a product of our up bringing. When we are born, where we are born, to who we are born. But that should never limit us.