Our thoughts and prayers...

juantoo3 said:
With the crime taking place right in front of you, the perp just has a "bad reputation" and is misunderstood???


Wow.
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My point was, if it wasn't clear, that it is so very rare for a crime to happen right in front of you.
There are so, so SO many crimes and criminals do their absolute DAMNDEST to hide them.
They don't make things convenient for "the good guys" by criming right in front of them to get caught and stopped.
That's kind of baked into committing crimes.
 
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juantoo3 said:
And if the label fits....
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♫♪libbies libbies libbies
is a label label label
don't you want all the ideas
on the table table table♪♪♫

what are conservatives called? connies? consies? servies? vaties? tivies?
haven't they been pulling this for decades, making light of the word "liberal" and saying the word with all sorts of scorn and contempt, like it's something BAD...

(hint: they have)
to manipulate the voters-- to enrage the conservative base
(that's my take on WHY)

When in actuality -- is it not the ILLIBERALISM of both left and right (and any illiberal third wayer) -- is it not the ILLIBERALISM that is the problem?

♫libbies libbies libbies
is a label label label
and I rather much prefer it
its not bad, that's just a fable♪♪
 
juantoo3 said:
you are not forced to maintain a firearm, that is your choice to surrender to harm when it comes
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not quite a logical deduction, not everyone who fails to maintain a firearm will ipso facto surrender to all harm
also, not everybody who would like to see fewer military grade assault rifles is ipso facto interested in totally disarming everybody at all times bar none. I'm skeptical of why any civilian needs a military assault rifle, but I'm not opposed to hunting rifles or handguns. I'm not opposed to owning those myself, though I have a healthy fear of them. They're deadly weapons. I could not imagine keeping an assault rifle on hand and I'd like it a lot if it was hard for every neighbor to be armed as if they were trying to start their own militia and/or plan for a revolution.

hard to believe in the 88 election cycle they were talking about whether or not to restrict HANDGUNS.
i kind of wanted a handgun. never got one. maybe will someday, maybe wont
I think when acquiring a deadly weapon, I at least will think long and hard about my motives, the uses, and the downsides, before I even plunk down the money, and certainly before i bring it into the house.
I will also take a crap ton of safety lessons and accuracy shooting lessons. hopefully from someone who both knows what they are doing while also managing to maintain a neutral professional approach and doesn't rant and rave gun politics day and night.
 
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juantoo3 said:
So you condone "internecine gang warfare between drug cartels and so on"? That's OK, because they don't use longarms?

So the internecine gang warfare across the Southern US, particularly the SouthWest from Texas to California, is acceptable as long as it is done with pistols?

That's what I'm reading.
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How are you getting that out of what RJM said??
 
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juantoo3 said:
A sleeping vigilante? Instead of sleep walking he was in a sleep posse? How is it possible to shoot with the intent of a vigilante "the wrong guy" while sleeping?

The logic is flawed.
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no silly, and I say that because I think you are trying to be funny. disingenuous on purpose for laughs. I don't for a minute believe you don't get it.
the point of the riddle is this:
People who perceive themselves as good people (Group A) can get whipped into a frenzy to believe Person B or Group B is BAD
So, Person A, self identified Good Guy, has heard that People B are awful, terrible, horrible people who do HORRIBLE things.
Person A, like many self identified Good Guys, is a man of action.
He sees someone from Group B.
He shoots Man B (from Group B)
But in reality, Man B was just an innocent, tired person on his way home from work. He never got to see his family that night.
Now Person A, from the Good Group, is actually BAD, because of his misguided actions. Murdered an innocent person, thinking he was BAD
That's what the riddle is saying.
 
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juantoo3 said:
With the crime taking place right in front of you, the perp just has a "bad reputation" and is misunderstood???
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Dam man I am sorry you have these thoughts in your head.

I have lived doors unlocked for my entire life. Lived in the woods, on the street, hitchhiked tens of thousands of miles, lived in 8 states and 20 cities and thank my lucky stars (since I don't believe in G!d) that I have never fallen asleep thinking about hypotheticals of someone killing my family or friends.

Now that being said a friend died of gunfire riding his bike home in DC about 50 hours ago. We don't need thoughts and prayers, we don't need a good guy with a gun. We need to get rid of the guns.

Of course that is just my opinion.

abcnews.go.com

More than 13,900 people killed in gun violence so far in 2023

Gun violence in the U.S. has taken an average of roughly 115 lives each day in 2023, according to data from Gun Violence Archive.
abcnews.go.com abcnews.go.com
 
juantoo3 said:
Best I know to tell you is the Golden Rule. Do unto others...you know? Of course, in my book, what is done unto me is fair game. I don't believe the common teaching of "turn the other cheek." A Christian was never meant to be a doormat.
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Was that from the Sermon on the Mount?
Nevertheless, I think it has been misinterpreted. I posted something earlier that went into it, but I ran across this also that I had forgotten
 
TheLightWithin said:
Was that from the Sermon on the Mount?
Nevertheless, I think it has been misinterpreted. I posted something earlier that went into it, but I ran across this also that I had forgotten
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The paraphrase: don't start anything untoward with your neighbor, but if your neighbor starts something untoward with you, you have the right to defend yourself.

To my way of thinking; if you are snarky with me, you have no right to object to me being snarky with you. If you condescend, expect the same in return. If you throw your fist, I have the right to block it and return the favor. You have shown me how you wish to be treated, I'm merely obliging.
 
talib-al-kalim said:
The solution is:
A good guy shot a bad guy while he was sleeping. Through this deed, he is a murderer, thus he is to be counted among the bad guys.

What I want to point out is that if you have a gun, there may come the temptation to use it.
It's an old trick of Shaitan to make people think they are fighting for good and make them evil.
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I don't think people get a urge to kill someone just because they have a gun. The whole purpose of keeping a gun is to kill someone or something. People never buy weapons thinking they will never be using them. If someone is buying gun, knife, etc even for security purpose, does have an intention of using it.

Killing is not an option. A wise person will never go for killing unless it questions his/her lifeline. Just because someone doing bad does not mean you have to personally punish them.
 
juantoo3 said:
The paraphrase: don't start anything untoward with your neighbor, but if your neighbor starts something untoward with you, you have the right to defend yourself.

To my way of thinking; if you are snarky with me, you have no right to object to me being snarky with you. If you condescend, expect the same in return. If you throw your fist, I have the right to block it and return the favor. You have shown me how you wish to be treated, I'm merely obliging.
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You are allowed to defend yourself; it is allowed (kosher, halal) according to both Jewish law and Islamic law, but it is not recommended by Jesus to answer unlawful action with the same (Mt 5).
 
talib-al-kalim said:
You are allowed to defend yourself; it is allowed (kosher, halal) according to both Jewish law and Islamic law, but it is not recommended by Jesus to answer unlawful action with the same (Mt 5).
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OK, so which is it?

It is lawful to defend myself if I'm Jewish or Muslim, but not if I'm Christian? Same law?

The Christian teaching is common misinterpretation, and I can guess several reasons why some teach Christians to be doormats. I learn directly from the book, and while I consider interpretations, I reserve the right to dismiss and discard those teachings that do not align with what is taught in the book, and in those places where there is some degree of doubt I lean towards (my understanding of) the Jewish interpretation - because Jesus was a Jew.
 
juantoo3 said:
OK, so which is it?

It is lawful to defend myself if I'm Jewish or Muslim, but not if I'm Christian? Same law?

The Christian teaching is common misinterpretation, and I can guess several reasons why some teach Christians to be doormats. I learn directly from the book, and while I consider interpretations, I reserve the right to dismiss and discard those teachings that do not align with what is taught in the book, and in those places where there is some degree of doubt I lean towards (my understanding of) the Jewish interpretation - because Jesus was a Jew.
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It just occurred to me that 'turning the other cheek' doesn't tell you what to do with your fists or feet.
(yes, I know this is silly)
 
The idea is to prevent war...some call it "peace through strength."

It can be difficult to interpret the intent of the other person, so this must be tempered with "forgive that you may be forgiven."

There is also "never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by stupidity."

In the moment, best to return the favor from a defensive position.
 
juantoo3 said:
OK, so which is it?

It is lawful to defend myself if I'm Jewish or Muslim, but not if I'm Christian? Same law?

The Christian teaching is common misinterpretation, and I can guess several reasons why some teach Christians to be doormats. I learn directly from the book, and while I consider interpretations, I reserve the right to dismiss and discard those teachings that do not align with what is taught in the book, and in those places where there is some degree of doubt I lean towards (my understanding of) the Jewish interpretation - because Jesus was a Jew.
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It's a bit peculiar to ask a Muslim what you should observe, staying a Christian.

Christians have never tried to establish a systematic on what is allowed and what is forbidden, as Jewish Halacha and Islamic Sharia do, and they usually do not follow either of those. Halacha and Sharia are a similar in the fundamentals but different in details.

I admit that the teachings of both, orthodox Jews and orthodox Muslim tend to put too much weight to the oral tradition and declare rulings that are not evident, so that I hesitate to encourage you to study and observe the full Sharia.

You may take the common points of Halacha and Sharia for granted, and try try to live according to the recommendation of Jesus...
 
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