Absolute Truth

OK, but religion and religious experience do not equate with mathematics, and mathematics is a rather cold and unfeeling / uncaring way of looking at the world and the life within it. What logic is there to love? What logic is there to laughter? What logic is there to hatred? What logic is there to any emotion? Even "red of tooth and claw" is not logical.
Flawlessism uses logic to determine what is actually even possible to be true, but the core of Flawlessism is hope, to be the most positive possibility to have faith in. Hope is like the direction, and logic and reasoning are used to create the structure needed to reach that hope. Sometimes errors will be pointed out, and the structure needs to be remade somewhat and fixed, but until the hope of Flawlessism is deemed to be logically impossible, it continues to have value for me and others to have faith in. Flawlessism is not a belief that is set in stone like many belief systems are, it's like an estimated guess that has reasonability to have faith in.
 
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??? It's Reddit, in other words, a Subreddit on Reddit. It's restricted to 18+, but that's it. If you got security warnings, that implies to me that you're actually under 18, so I'm glad you quit. The specific subreddit is: r/GoodAndEvilReligion (just in case you went to some other site which had issues)
It's possibly Reddit. It doesn't work if I refuse all cookies, it refuses to let me read without installing an app, disclosing my e-mail account, ...
I'm old enough to be careful with websites, and my first son is over 18...
 
Flawlessism uses logic to determine what is actually even possible to be true, but the core of Flawlessism is hope, to be the most positive possibility to have faith in. Hope is like the direction, and logic and reasoning are used to create the structure needed to reach that hope. Sometimes errors will be pointed out, and the structure needs to be remade somewhat and fixed, but until the hope of Flawlessism is deemed to be logically impossible, it continues to have value for me and others to have faith in. Flawlessism is not a belief that is set in stone like many belief systems are, it's like an estimated guess that has reasonability to have faith in.
OK, but hope is not logical. Hope is faith. Building logic on the illogical is...not logical.

With due respect: garbage in / garbage out, to borrow a cliché from Boolean logic
 
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OK, but hope is not logical. Hope is faith. Building logic on the illogical is...not logical.
To say that hope is illogical is to say that hope is impossible, which simple isn't true. The hope in Flawlessism is a possibility, so using logic and reasoning to determine the likelihood and reasonability of that hope is entirely reasonable no matter how I see it.
 
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It's possibly Reddit. It doesn't work if I refuse all cookies, it refuses to let me read without installing an app, disclosing my e-mail account, ...
I'm old enough to be careful with websites, and my first son is over 18...
Actually, it should work just fine, just press the non-highlighted button that you're over 18 (if that's not showing up, then I don't know what to say).
 
OK, but hope is not logical. Hope is faith. Building logic on the illogical is...not logical.

With due respect: garbage in / garbage out, to borrow a cliché from Boolean logic
Difficult one that. We can have hope that is built on a certainty. Example Jesus Christ promised an age when God's Kingdom will come, our hope can be born on that promise.

It is a logical hope, based in the fact God does fulfil all promises, Faith is not knowing when that will be fulfilled.

Regards Tony
 
To say that hope is illogical is to say that hope is impossible, which simple isn't true. The hope in Flawlessism is a possibility, so using logic and reasoning to determine the likelihood and reasonability of that hope is entirely reasonable no matter how I see it.
Not at all, hope is not impossible, but it is not logical. Hope is based in faith.
 
Difficult one that. We can have hope that is built on a certainty. Example Jesus Christ promised an age when God's Kingdom will come, our hope can be born on that promise.

It is a logical hope, based in the fact God does fulfil all promises, Faith is not knowing when that will be fulfilled.

Regards Tony
Is trust logical or illogical?

What happens when one breaks trust or dashes hope? Trusting that G!d fulfills promises is based in faith that He will keep His word. I trust He will, but that is my hope and faith, not logic.

Logic tells me I've been burned enough times to be cautious with trust and hope. Logic tells me to play the odds and not trust, or "trust but verify," and leave nothing to chance and hope.
 
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Not at all, hope is not impossible, but it is not logical. Hope is based in faith.
Sometimes, human understanding and knowledge evolve over time, and what might appear illogical at one point can become logical with new evidence, insights, or advancements. For instance, scientific discoveries often challenge existing beliefs and open up new ways of thinking, rendering what was once seen as illogical into a logical explanation.
Therefore, it would be a contradiction to claim that anything not currently recognized as logical is inherently illogical. The categorization of logical or illogical is subject to our current understanding, and as our knowledge advances, things may shift between these categories. What may seem illogical today could potentially be revealed as logical in the future with more information and comprehension.
 
Is trust logical or illogical?

What happens when one breaks trust or dashes hope? Trusting that G!d fulfills promises is based in faith that He will keep His word. I trust He will, but that is my hope and faith, not logic.

Logic tells me I've been burned enough times to be cautious with trust and hope. Logic tells me to play the odds and not trust, or "trust but verify," and leave nothing to chance and hope.
I see all virtues are logical, they are the life and the light for all of us. So the following is applicable to all virtues.

We trust when we become the epitome of Trustworthiness, we Love when we become the epitome of Love.

Our perception of these virtues is limited in our own choices.

God Loves all of us and shows Mercy to all of us, I can trust in love and mercy, no matter how many times we get burned by those yet to embrace those virtues.

Regards Tony
 
Emotions will never be logical. I try very hard not to use emphatics and absolutes, but I cannot imagine any situation where emotions magically become logical. I could say apples and oranges, but the two are not even that closely associated. Logic is in the head, emotions are in the heart.
 
I see all virtues are logical, they are the life and the light forward for us all. So the following is applicable to all virtues.

We trust when we become the epitome of Trustworthiness, we Love when we become the epitome of Love.

Our perception of these virtues is limited in our own choices.

God Loves all of us and shows Mercy to all of us, I can trust in love and mercy, no matter how many times we get burned by those yet to embrace those virtues.

Regards Tony
OK, but virtues are things like trustworthiness, truthfulness, reliability, dependability. This really goes off on a tangent, but anyway I look at this I fail to see any of it as logic. Something may happen and a reliable person may become unreliable, a truthful person may become untruthful...this is NOT logical - logic doesn't change. Emotions and virtues are human interpretations (not the word I want but it isn't coming to me right now).

Philosophically we want our virtues to be steadfast and unchanging, but people are people and the fact is virtues are very often situational, and even the best intended among us might in a weak moment be less than virtuous. That is not logical - if virtues were logical, it would be impossible to change, impossible for a person to "slip up."
 
Emotions will never be logical. I try very hard not to use emphatics and absolutes, but I cannot imagine any situation where emotions magically become logical. I could say apples and oranges, but the two are not even that closely associated. Logic is in the head, emotions are in the heart.
Emotions could be understood as logical in the future, despite their complexity and subjectivity, they are rooted in underlying biological and cognitive processes. As our understanding of the human brain and mind advances, we may uncover more about the mechanisms that give rise to emotions, allowing us to interpret them through a logical framework. Here are some points to support this idea:
1.) Neuroscientific Advancements: As neuroscience continues to progress, we gain insights into the brain's neural networks and how they influence emotional responses. Understanding the neural basis of emotions could provide a more systematic and logical approach to interpreting and managing emotions.

2.) Evolutionary Perspective: Emotions have likely evolved as adaptive responses to environmental stimuli. By studying the evolutionary origins of emotions and their functional significance, we may discover the logical reasons behind certain emotional reactions and how they contribute to our survival and well-being.

3.) Cognitive Psychology: Emotions are intertwined with cognitive processes, such as perception, memory, and decision-making. Investigating the cognitive underpinnings of emotions could shed light on their logic, including how they influence our judgments and behavior.

4.) Cultural and Social Influences: Emotions can be influenced by cultural norms, social context, and individual experiences. Analyzing the cultural and social factors that shape emotional expressions may offer a more comprehensive understanding of the logical reasons behind specific emotional responses in different contexts.

5.) Artificial Intelligence and Emotion Modeling: Advancements in artificial intelligence (AI) and emotion modeling may lead to a better understanding of the logical patterns governing emotions. By developing AI systems that can recognize and respond to emotions, researchers can gain insights into the underlying principles of emotional processing.

6.) Interdisciplinary Approaches: Combining knowledge from various disciplines, such as psychology, neuroscience, philosophy, and anthropology, could contribute to a more holistic and logical understanding of emotions.

While emotions are often viewed as subjective and challenging to quantify in a strict logical sense, the future integration of scientific research and interdisciplinary approaches may help us grasp the logical aspects of emotions more effectively. This understanding could pave the way for better emotional intelligence, mental health support, and personal development. However, it's important to acknowledge that emotions will likely always retain some subjective and individual elements, even as we strive for a more logical understanding. So yes, you are partially right, but not fully.
 
Difficult one that. We can have hope that is built on a certainty. Example Jesus Christ promised an age when God's Kingdom will come, our hope can be born on that promise.

It is a logical hope, based in the fact God does fulfil all promises, Faith is not knowing when that will be fulfilled.

Regards Tony
In my view, Jesus (p.b.u.h) did not promise the age of God's Kingdom, rather he explained it, announced that, although still not perfect, it is present. We should try to be part of it, with all what it means. Jannah is future; the Kingdom of God is it's preparation.
 
In my view, Jesus (p.b.u.h) did not promise the age of God's Kingdom, rather he explained it, announced that, although still not perfect, it is present. We should try to be part of it, with all what it means. Jannah is future; the Kingdom of God is it's preparation.
I see the Lords Prayer is a promise, a Prophecy.

My understanding is that Jannah becomes available to us all in this life, our choices define us.

Regards Tony
 
I think the Lord's prayer is an individual petition and the promised kingdom is available to every individual soul -- the inner peace that passes all understanding -- not material world peace
 
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My views on The Lords Prayer is that the disciples asked the Lord how we should pray as Jesus is our example. For me it's a recipe.

In this manner, therefore, pray:

Our Father in heaven,
Hallowed be Your name.


Acknowledging God and His separateness from us as Holy or set apart. I consider this as praise and worship.

Your kingdom come.
Your will be done
On earth as it is in heaven.


Acknowledging that He is sovereign over everything in praise and worship.

Give us this day our daily bread.
And forgive us our debts,
As we forgive our debtors
.

Making our requests to Him and trusting that He will provide even though we are not worthy and asking forgiveness and knowing that we can't request something from Him without giving of ourselves.

And do not lead us into temptation,
But deliver us from the evil one.
For Yours is the kingdom and the power and the glory forever. Amen.


Acknowledging the omniscient omnipresent omnipotent God who knows all and promises deliverance. Praise and worship.
 
Emotions could be understood as logical in the future, despite their complexity and subjectivity, they are rooted in underlying biological and cognitive processes. As our understanding of the human brain and mind advances, we may uncover more about the mechanisms that give rise to emotions, allowing us to interpret them through a logical framework. Here are some points to support this idea:
Now we're playing in my sandbox...
1.) Neuroscientific Advancements: As neuroscience continues to progress, we gain insights into the brain's neural networks and how they influence emotional responses. Understanding the neural basis of emotions could provide a more systematic and logical approach to interpreting and managing emotions.
You will always be behind the curve. This is like saying "love" is just the rush of endorphins. That is the effect, not the cause. If the presence of endorphins were enough to "prove" love exists, then those same endorphins in the same places in the brain are also proof G!d exists ... there are several studies I am aware of that evoke and evince the same endorphins in the same locations in the brain when someone is reverently "reaching" for the Divine. There are religious teachings that G!d is Love.
2.) Evolutionary Perspective: Emotions have likely evolved as adaptive responses to environmental stimuli. By studying the evolutionary origins of emotions and their functional significance, we may discover the logical reasons behind certain emotional reactions and how they contribute to our survival and well-being.
I have seen animal examples that suggest strongly to me of mother/child "love." Fear is probably the first emotion borne from "eat or be eaten." Anger is a human emotion that likely stems from predator psychology. My paper in Psych 101 was on advertising psych; J.B. Watson, B.F. Skinner, Ivan Pavlov, Behaviorism...etc. Love, fear and rage are the basic fundamental / elemental emotions, per Behaviorism and borne out with every (successful) advertisement a person experiences.
3.) Cognitive Psychology: Emotions are intertwined with cognitive processes, such as perception, memory, and decision-making. Investigating the cognitive underpinnings of emotions could shed light on their logic, including how they influence our judgments and behavior.
Only in the sense that our brains attempt to tie various inputs together to solidify the memory. A significant memory will be reinforced with sensory inputs, emotions and / or other factors to reinforce that memory, and why it is easier to remember the time you fell off your bike and broke your arm compared with what you ate for supper last night. The broken arm is a vivid memory reinforced through multiple cognitive (and unconscious) channels, whereas supper not so much.
4.) Cultural and Social Influences: Emotions can be influenced by cultural norms, social context, and individual experiences. Analyzing the cultural and social factors that shape emotional expressions may offer a more comprehensive understanding of the ... reasons behind specific emotional responses in different contexts.
Agreed, after my edit as emotions are not logical.
5.) Artificial Intelligence and Emotion Modeling: Advancements in artificial intelligence (AI) and emotion modeling may lead to a better understanding of the logical patterns governing emotions. By developing AI systems that can recognize and respond to emotions, researchers can gain insights into the underlying principles of emotional processing.
Artificial Intelligence cannot emulate true / actual / valid emotions. It might present as emulating emotion, in the sense a parrot emulates the spoken word, in order to promote human interaction. Machine learning is non-emotive.
6.) Interdisciplinary Approaches: Combining knowledge from various disciplines, such as psychology, neuroscience, philosophy, and anthropology, could contribute to a more holistic and logical understanding of emotions.
OK....how does this apply to how / why a person has or holds a religious belief? Faith is a very personal thing, and people jump through all manner of illogical hoops to retain that faith. "We" invent all kinds of illogical excuses to preserve the illogical elements of our faiths.
While emotions are often viewed as subjective and challenging to quantify in a strict logical sense, the future integration of scientific research and interdisciplinary approaches may help us grasp the logical aspects of emotions more effectively.
Maybe, maybe not. I am inclined to think not based in my studies of the matter.
This understanding could pave the way for better emotional intelligence, mental health support, and personal development.
Maybe, maybe not. I am inclined to think not based in my studies of the matter.
However, it's important to acknowledge that emotions will likely always retain some subjective and individual elements, even as we strive for a more logical understanding.
Agreed. The very fact emotions are subjective negates any affiliation with logic. Logic is not subjective, it is not true for one and not the next. Logic either is, or is not, for all. Otherwise it is not logic. By definition.

I've been trying to logically understand women and some of the things they do that are very illogical to my understanding ever since I started noticing girls. Attributing logical reasoning as a basis to build from is unrealistic. Logic is a learned exercise, and even skilled practitioners lapse from time to time, because logic is not the normal human baseline our minds work from. On the other hand, logic (Boolean Logic) is the only thing a computer AI has to work from and with. Consequently emotions are beyond the scope and ability for a computer to understand in an experiential way, regardless how "improved" the underlying database may be.
So yes, you are partially right, but not fully.
I am more correct than you credit me with.

Look into Behaviorism sometime. And a quick look around this site you will find my studies looking into prehistoric humanity and the development of religion...and a significant if seldom stated aspect is the underlying psychology. A particular favorite is the Ganzfeld Effect and Prisoner's Cinema as they relate to the Cave Paintings such as Lascaux and Alta Mira.

;)
 
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