Absolute Truth

RJM said:
No destination but adherence to the writings of a self-announced upgrade to Jesus Christ, who spoke to Moses from the burning bush and whose rulings will be final truth for all humanity for the next 800 years

Go figure ...
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A God given quandary for us all.

Regards Tony
 
Tony Bristow-Stagg said:
Luckily we can use my own rational mind to determine what is logical and reasonable when determining the truth of a Messenger of God.

One does not need any other persons logic and reason, all it requires is a strong sense of the need for justice and a loving heart.

Regards Tony
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Rhetorically you are correct...but then anything goes in rhetoric. My own rational mind politely, reasonably and logically disagrees.

If logic is not true for all, then it is not logic. "Your" logic may be true for you, not necessarily true for others. If it is not true for all, always, at all times - it is not logic.

The cat is alive or the cat is dead - it cannot be both at the same time, Schrodinger notwithstanding.
 
The Bible doesn't predict Baha'u'llah. Get over it. The necessity to make it do so speaks for itself, imo
 
juantoo3 said:
Rhetorically you are correct...but then anything goes in rhetoric. My own rational mind politely, reasonably and logically disagrees.

If logic is not true for all, then it is not logic. "Your" logic may be true for you, not necessarily true for others. If it is not true for all, always, at all times - it is not logic.

The cat is alive or the cat is dead - it cannot be both at the same time, Schrodinger notwithstanding.
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The Baha'i Writings show us how our truth is relative, we need to consider we are not the Possessor of absolute truths.

So it is logical we must consider, either Baha'u'llah is as claimed, or Mirza Husayn Ali, was not as claimed.

Logically this requires a high sense of Justice, if one really wishes to determine the truth in this matter.

Logically one must have based that rejection of that station on strong valid evidence the claim is false.

I say this to point out that we do need to use logic and reason to determine the Claim of any of the Messengers. That was my own path into this faith, it was not any Love I had of any God given Faiths that guided or hindered my balance of the evidence.

Regards Tony
 
RJM said:
The Bible doesn't predict Baha'u'llah. Get over it. The necessity to make it do so speaks for itself, imo
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The Absolute Truth of this can be determined by Logic and reason based on a just and honest search.

This is for those who may want to consider such a search, based in Justice.

Regards Tony
 
I just can't comprehend how anyone can believe this earth will last another 800 years at the rate we are going. God sent the flood when only Noah was left.

From Adam to Noah's flood are 1656 years.
 
Faithfulservant said:
I just can't comprehend how anyone can believe this earth will last another 800 years at the rate we are going. God sent the flood when only Noah was left.

From Adam to Noah's flood are 1656 years.
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The earth will be here for many more millions of year and humanity also, and we will have found a Most Great Peace, after the Lesser Peace yet to come

Many people will not make it through this age unscathed, both alive and dead, but many will, both dead and alive.

Regards Tony
 
Faithfulservant said:
@Cino sorry but this made me laugh a little.
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There are prophecies in the Bible that show why we are faced with a quandary, which is "a state of perplexity or uncertainty over what to do in a difficult situation".

The Messengers after Jesus Christ in prophecy were noted as the 3 "Woes"

"So Woe means “grief, anguish, affliction”; the three woes of Revelation are the final judgment God pronounces on the evil inhabitants of the earth in order to spur them to repentance (Revelation 9:20). The three woes are, indeed, a time of great anguish and affliction for those who have pledged their allegiance to the Antichrist during the end times." (From Web)

The fist Woe was Muhammad, the Second Woe was the Bab and the 3rd Woe that came Quickly was Baha'u'llah. We can now see how prophecies are indeed amazing!

The quandary is, that many people are unaware of the quandary, which adds to the quandary of others. Great word quandary. 😉👌😅

Regards Tony
 
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Tony Bristow-Stagg said:
The Baha'i Writings show us how our truth is relative, we need to consider we are not the Possessor of absolute truths.
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With all due love and respect in my heart:

Absolute Truth exists. It is called Reality. Whether we understand it or not, whether we mislead ourselves into thinking we do understand it or not...it exists. If Reality does not exist, we would not be having this discussion.
Tony Bristow-Stagg said:
So it is logical we must consider, either Baha'u'llah is as claimed, or Mirza Husayn Ali, was not as claimed.
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I *must* consider no such thing. I am no more required to consider such as consider why grass is green, or dirt is brown.
Tony Bristow-Stagg said:
Logically this requires a high sense of Justice, if one really wishes to determine the truth in this matter.
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To me, it does not matter. I respect that it matters to you, and that is all I can offer.
Tony Bristow-Stagg said:
Logically one must have based that rejection of that station on strong valid evidence the claim is false.
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Not if one doesn't care. I mean that with no ill will in my heart or intention, the simple fact to my eyes is that it is superfluous. My primary objection from my first exposure to B'Hai (I've been to the Temple in Willamette IL), is the underlying motive of dragging everyone into one singular pot. Maybe that is one part of Protestism that intellectually I relate to, in that I am still free to say, "Hey! Wait a minute, something here doesn't add up." I have the G!d given right to say "No."
Tony Bristow-Stagg said:
I say this to point out that we do need to use logic and reason to determine the Claim of any of the Messengers. That was my own path into this faith, it was not any Love I had of any God given Faiths that guided or hindered my balance of the evidence.

Regards Tony
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I appreciate where you are coming from, Mr Tony, but I see no logic. I see plenty of reasoning, plenty of reason that makes sense to you, and I respect that. Your path is not the path for me.
 
Echogem222 said:
Why would I start a new thread? (I mean, I might do that eventually, but why would you say that in this situation?)
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Well, because a description of your religion is a new topic in itself. It would make it easier to identify and locate to others. So, considerate in its own way, as well as logical.
 
juantoo3 said:
Emotions will never be logical. I try very hard not to use emphatics and absolutes, but I cannot imagine any situation where emotions magically become logical. I could say apples and oranges, but the two are not even that closely associated. Logic is in the head, emotions are in the heart.
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Evolutionary psychology might put a different spin on that. The idea of evolutionary psychology is that genes that lead us to engage in behaviors that enhance survival and reproductive fitness (that is the ability to spread ones genes to the next generation) -- those genes are more likely to continue, generation after generation. Emotions are based in the brain and body. Genetics play a role in emotions which promote certain behaviors. Therefore, one can make logical sense of why people have certain emotions, basically any emotion that is likely to lead to behaviors that support survival, reproduction, and the survival of one's offspring. So even though an individual's emotion may not seem to come from anyplace rational, there is a method to the madness, so to speak.
 
I agree there is method to the madness, I'm not seeing any tie between emotion and reason (here I'm even allowing past and still including logic). I cry because I am sad, I don't cry because I think myself to cry, I don't reason myself to cry (unless I'm being deceitful). I cry because I am physically or emotionally injured - this is external to any form of reasoning; logical, rhetorical or otherwise.
 
juantoo3 said:
I agree there is method to the madness, I'm not seeing any tie between emotion and reason (here I'm even allowing past and still including logic). I cry because I am sad, I don't cry because I think myself to cry, I don't reason myself to cry (unless I'm being deceitful). I cry because I am physically or emotionally injured - this is external to any form of reasoning; logical, rhetorical or otherwise.
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It's more that one can use one's reason to understand why the emotions exist, and the purpose they serve. That's one part of it
Also

While we don't exactly reason our way to tears, our underlying thoughts and beliefs are often what we are responding to when we are tearful. One's reason can either challenge or defend those beliefs.
 
juantoo3 said:
All intelligent life dreams. We don't know why.
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There's talk of it being to process emotions or learning / consolidate memories
Here's an article from a couple of years ago with someone who has a related theory
now.tufts.edu

A New Theory for Why We Dream

In answering the question of why do we dream, Tufts researcher Erik Hoel draws on machine learning and evolutionary science for his theory
now.tufts.edu now.tufts.edu
 
Echogem222 said:
Wow, we're in the same city. It's not plagiarized, but I often use ChatGPT to help me organize my thoughts. I always look over what is explained before posting.
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What flawless prompts do you use for ChatGPT to help with organizing your thoughts?
 
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