Your religious/spiritual journey

My reaction, "WHAT you have to be kidding, who gets all the money!" Well that was a deflation indeed. The Orange people had taken over Fremantle in WA at that time, a nasty cult, they were on the news often.

Are you talking about these people: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rajneesh_movement? I've never heard of the orange people before.

By 1986 we decided to sell our house and travel to find a place to settle as Baha'i

Were you a "pioneer"? I remember reading about Baha'i "pioneering", it's a very unique practice. Thank you for sharing your journey!
 
The biggest miracle is the creation of the universe and life. If God can create Adam from the dust of the ground, then the resurrection and all other miracles are child's play by comparison.

The first life had to happen somehow, tell me how it happened without God.
This describes recent theories about the conditions that led to the biochemical origins of life, without reference to theology, if that helps

This too
 
Thank you for sharing your story! I don't think I had ever heard of the Unity Church until a little while ago, which is surprising because its apparently quite popular. I've seen several people mention it here. It seems to be influenced both by Christianity and New Age beliefs?
That's roughly accurate
https://world-religions.info/unity-church-beliefs/

I loved Unity when I was there. When our VERY popular ministers (husband and wife couple) left, things were different, and while I gave it time, I just stopped going back after I moved and it was less convenient to get there.
 
Just to be clear -- you accept the healing miracles of the Christ, in principle, but don't regard them as overly mportant -- in that Baha'u'llah does not put much store upon healing miracles as a property of the new updated Christ whom he claims to be?

I think humanity's development in the first century corresponds to the mythic stage of development - which would be around age 4 for a child. Any literal understanding of healing miracles is childlike.
 
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I think humanity's development in the first century corresponds to the mythic stage of development - which would be around age 4 for a child. Any literal understanding of healing miracles is childlike.
And yet the Chinese were highly developed long before that? Do you think humanity's intellectual and spiritual development started in the Middle East 2000 years ago?
 
I think Hindus believe humanity has finally reached the lowest stage of spiritual development -- the Kali Yuga?

'According to Puranic sources Krishna's death marked the end of Dvapara Yuga and the start of Kali Yuga, which is dated to 17/18 February 3102 BCE. Lasting for 432,000 years (1,200 divine years), Kali Yuga began 5,124 years ago and has 426,876 years left as of 2023 CE. Kali Yuga will end in the year 428,899 CE'
 
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And yet the Chinese were highly developed long before that?

Okay. Yet ghosts haunted the land, divination was in vogue, demons could cause illnesses, emperors sought immortality (see the famous case of Qin Shi Huang), and so on.

Do you think humanity's intellectual and spiritual development started in the Middle East 2000 years ago?

No.
 
I believe the book should be read, and then the question can be asked? Abiogenesis is simply about how life -- eventually man -- could have originated from inanimate matter -- as Adam was created from the dust of the earth.

Abiogenesis proposes mechanisms for the origin of life from inanimate matter. If God wanted to create life, was there a mechanism -- or did life just poof into existence?
I usually stay out of the abiogenesis question because I know I don't know. Having said that, "could have" and "proposes" are not very reassuring.

What always struck me as odd, is that science in general can recreate in the lab pretty much everything "they" hypothesize. Except abiogenesis. Still waiting, almost 50 years now, for laboratory confirmation of this "proposed mechanism." Even then, if it was possible once, shouldn't it continue to be possible? Why isn't new life popping up still? Something about this proposition never sat well with me, it seems to me more a religious speculation unfounded by experiment. Abiogenesis seems to me a convenient miracle as a placeholder.

This is my way of saying my jury is still out on this one. I'm not ready to buy just yet, only to buy because the brand "science" is attached. It still remains to be seen. Until then I'm not convinced.

And no, I don't have an alternate. To me it is irrelevant and unimportant to my salvation.

And ghosts still haunt the land.
 
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I usually stay out of the abiogenesis question because I know I don't know. Having said that, "could have" and "proposes" are not very reassuring.

What always struck me as odd, is that science in general can recreate in the lab pretty much everything "they" hypothesize. Except abiogenesis. Still waiting, almost 50 years now, for laboratory confirmation of this "proposed mechanism." Even then, if it was possible once, shouldn't it continue to be possible? Why isn't new life popping up still? Something about this proposition never sat well with me, it seems to me more a religious speculation unfounded by experiment. Abiogenesis seems to me a convenient miracle as a placeholder.

This is my way of saying my jury is still out on this one. I'm not ready to buy just yet, only to buy because the brand "science" is attached. It still remains to be seen. Until then I'm not convinced.

And no, I don't have an alternate. To me it is irrelevant and unimportant to my salvation.

And ghosts still haunt the land.
Sure. But the point is that even if it did happen it shouldn't affect anyone's belief in the Creator God -- it simply reveals the mechanism? It tallies with man's creation from dust?
 
And ghosts still haunt the land.
Metaphorically? Yes. "The ghosts of colonization still haunt us." In other words, the actions of the dead from the era of colonization have ripple effects that influence society today.

Literally? No. "There is a water ghost in this body of water, so do not go near it because it will pull you under!"
 
Literally? No. "There is a water ghost in this body of water, so do not go near it because it will pull you under!"
Who knows. Perhaps all our 21st Century noise and bright lights just make them hide themselves away from most of us?
 
Take magic mushrooms or ayaschura and you will encounter entities*. Some 'seers' do so naturally

*EDIT @powessy calls them 'minds'
 
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Who knows. Perhaps all our 21st Century noise and bright lights just make them hide themselves away from most of us?
Or we close our eyes to them...

The Medicine Man (and Woman), the Shaman, is a time honored tradition reaching back twenty five thousand years we know, probably a great deal longer. Modern science is scarcely over three hundred years, and even tying historically back through Alchemy into ancient Daoism, hardly more than four thousand years.

What is a Muse? The root word in Latin for genie is the same as for genius. The alternate paths understand what this points to explicitly and implicitly. Why are creative people more receptive to paranormal and extra sensory perception experiments? Who are the wind walkers, and how would some know of their existence?
 
Who knows. Perhaps all our 21st Century noise and bright lights just make them hide themselves away from most of us?

It was the transformation in thinking that went into making the noise and bright lights that made ghosts vanish from the mind.

Take magic mushrooms or ayaschura and you will encounter entities*. Some 'seers' do so naturally

*EDIT @powessy calls them 'minds'

Oh, I have a friend that supposedly communicated with aliens while using them. Not only that, but he was implanted with an object. Similar experiences have been reported in the Australian Aboriginal tradition, in which sky spirits transport the person under the influence to an otherworldly location, and then implant them with strange objects.

 
Despite my father's wishes, the baptism I received as an infant never really 'caught'. I was sent to Sunday school each week, and often visited a Good News Club down the street. Apparently, I did well there, because they tried to get me into junior ...missionary? work(not sure how to title this). I declined; my best friend wasn't extended the same invitation, and I took exception to it.

Dad was fire and brimstone, Mom was a closet New Ager. I faithfully stayed Christian in name until about 16, reading through Mom's books when Dad wasn't home. Reincarnation made more sense to me(still does). I disliked church(it was boring, and I didn't connect with the kids there), and stopped going in my early teen years. Dad would ground me, but eventually we compromised, and I was to read a chapter of the Bible each week instead. Despite all this exposure, I hardly remember Christianity. The names didn't stick in my head, the stories didn't speak to my heart enough to remember much past the very basics.

I think I was always meant for another path. I remember being about 8, and cutting myself on the bathroom faucet. I was about to scream for Ma, and then realized "this is pain. Its a sensation. It doesn't have to be negative." I rinsed my hand off, and went back to playing. I also remember trying to talk to my mom about the importance of non attachment(I was in my teen years at this point), and being sent to a therapist.

I met a Pagan in my mid teens. I stayed Christian in name awhile. She never once tried to convert me, but would look the other way when I borrowed her notes and books. The Gods had caught me, and would only let me push them aside for another year or so before I 'came out of the broomcloset' as it was called back then. I spent most of my adult life as a Pagan, raising my oldest son as such exclusively. I had a very tumultuous early adulthood, but once I was in a safer and happier space, I studied Druidry with AODA and OBOD for a good number of years.

My husband and I were looking for community; there was none for Pagans here. While he didn't identify as Pagan, he didn't identify as Abrahamic, either, and we were both wanting something. We tried out the UUs, and threw ourselves into it wholeheartedly. Bad choice. We found it to be more political than religious(neither of us are very political people), and had a large number of loud and angry atheists who were sometimes less than kind towards the religious(not saying all atheists are as such, just that this group was). Not all was a waste of time, though, for it hosted a Buddhist Path group that I credit with helping me find the proper mindset to raise not one, but two, boys on the autism spectrum. If not for those kind men, I believe I'd be a mess. But, being exposed to Eastern thought woke those pieces up in me again; things I'd suppressed for awhile. Someone new to the group asked me what I identified as, and I told him, after a pause, "I guess I'm a Bugan." One of the regulars looked interested and asked what that was and I said "Somewhat of a mix between a Pagan and a Buddhist, I suppose."

Time moves on, and life became hard again, and I was no longer able to meet up with my Buddhist friends. My husband and I had met another couple who we studied religion with, and I'd gotten a copy of the Gita(with commentary). My exposure to Hinduism was limited at that time, but the book had caught my eye. I read it a bit, and a part: "Krishna has so many arms; why don't you let him carry your problems?" I thought it was cute and laughed, but moved along.

Up until around that time, I'd lived with severe anxiety. It affected many areas of my life, making it extremely difficult to connect with other people or to get simple things done. There was at least one panic attack a day, typically more. I was driving somewhere, and the hyperventilation started up, and it was to a point where I'd have to pull over... and I just got mad. Real mad. And for whatever reason, I recalled that bit of commentary in the Gita, and I asked Krishna(rather rudely), if he all thought this was funny, because I sure didn't! And! He could just have it, so why doesn't he use his arms, and take it away!" And I felt a hand go into my chest, and remove something heavy. And then I felt light, mentally, physically... I could hear friendly laughter. So! It was funny after all! And I went home a new person, and my husband had no idea what to do with me, merely that I was very different... and that began our journey into Hinduism. And that's the path I've been on since, though one of the friends I mentioned and I do kind of an interfaith blend between our two faiths(Pagan and Hindu), for we both lack community otherwise.
 
Sure. But the point is that even if it did happen it shouldn't affect anyone's belief in the Creator God -- it simply reveals the mechanism? It tallies with man's creation from dust?
Yeah....Higg's Boson and all that stuff. Tearing apart atoms with the Swiss Watch method using a super collider to see what pops out. Weird stuff, some of the different quarks and such have signature spins, that's how they identify them. Sub atomic math and sub atomic physics is some fun stuff to watch, but that is only distantly related to abiogenesis, scientifically speaking.

I don't know. <shrug> I honestly don't think anybody else does either. And it really makes not a lick of difference to me, it simply doesn't impact my faith walk.

Somewhere back a few years ago in one of the later Creation v Evolution threads, I got caught up in some bizarre argument because I wouldn't state an age for the Earth. I wasn't particularly defending the Creationists so much as pointing out the errors in the Evolution argument, and I said the Earth is as old as the Earth is. I don't know if that's 6 thousand or a gazillion billion years, it doesn't matter to my faith walk.

You've seen my essays dealing with prehistoric humanity...we...humans (and I don't like to use "we" in this context, but it is true) were connecting with "the Divine," or something that equates, the Great Spirit, there certainly are other names by which the Almighty is called, we Abrahamics refer to Him (respect by tradition) as G!d. Humans have been connecting or trying to for a hundred thousand years...or more.

Atheists set up the strawman, apologies Thomas but the Church fed the image, of an old grey beard reclining on a cloud hurling thunderbolts. That's not G!d, and never was. But the strawman is sufficient justification to disconnect, for some. C'est la vie.

Oh! And good to see you back, @JustGeorge !
 
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And yet the Chinese were highly developed long before that? Do you think humanity's intellectual and spiritual development started in the Middle East 2000 years ago?
Interesting to me, there isn't a lot out there in English anyway, regarding prehistoric China. I've seen allusion to a handful of sites, but I've not been able to get any scholarly papers or info out of China regarding Ice Age humans.

There is indication of spiritual development a hundred thousand years ago, one in South Africa (Blombos Cave) and another site in Israel (Skul 5 I think).
 
It was the transformation in thinking that went into making the noise and bright lights that made ghosts vanish from the mind.



Oh, I have a friend that supposedly communicated with aliens while using them. Not only that, but he was implanted with an object. Similar experiences have been reported in the Australian Aboriginal tradition, in which sky spirits transport the person under the influence to an otherworldly location, and then implant them with strange objects.

Whatever. Others have had profound life changing experiences of altered states of being

The Doors of Perception
 
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Aldous Huxley in his books 'The Doors of Perception' and 'Heaven and Hell' compares the brain to a reducing valve that limits the information we receive to what we are equipped to handle. The goal of yoga enlightenment is to open the chakra centres of the human body to handle more of the cosmic energy, ending in the final opening of the crown or sahasrara chakra at the top of the head, to full enlightenment.

Alchemy -- the quest to turn lead into gold -- was the outer symbolism of the goal of inner transformation.

It is a long ladder. Psychotropic substances like mescaline can be compared in some ways to taking an elevator to the top, or at least part way up, and it is too overpowering: so obviously human beings are not equipped to handle psychotropic substances like mescaline on an ongoing basis because it leads to mental instability -- however the experience shows a greater reality 'beyond the veil' of normal human experience, imo.

There have always been seers who see a bit of what there is out there beyond the veil. Many are rejected by 'normal' society.

Religious language is an attempt to convey some of the greater reality in human words and symbols. The life, death and resurrection and ascension of the Christ the Son are a living 'parable' given by the All, God the Father, including the mighty symbolism of the Cross, imo

The words and symbolism are the shell of the nut, containing and preserving the inner reality. Scriptures preserve the inner reality down through the millennia, and cannot be lightly altered, without risking the inner meaning.

Many get stuck on the words, like chewing on the dead wood of the shell of the nut, instead of cracking it.

All just my own opinion
 
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Hey all. One thing I like about this forum is how incredibly diverse the religious opinions/beliefs are here. I'm curious to know how you would describe your religious journey, or how you came to believe the things you do now? What do you believe and why? Have your beliefs changed often, or stayed pretty stable?
(I had posted something alike before but I didn't find that post anymore, so I restart, partly telling the same same again...)

My family was not very religious; my father formally converted from an inactive Christian to an inactive Muslim to marry my mother. He informed himself about Islam but he didn't believe. My mother wasn't religious either; she held up some aspects of the Somali culture but she didn't really practice. We even celebrated fast-breaking in the end of Ramadan without having fasted...

(If you ask Muslim how they practice, many answer that they observe all and fast and pray five times a day, but many don't really do it. That to say that this kind of "secular Islam" is not so uncommon as you may think if you ask Muslim about their practice)

The initiative to learn about religion always came from me. The first contact was when I decided to attend the Christian religion classes because my best friend did so, and I liked it. The teacher knew somehow that my religion was Islam, and asked me questions about Islam that I didn't know to answer. So I asked my father to have some Islam classes as well (similar to him who had learnt in some classes). So, I simultaneously got an introduction to two religions at the same time, both starting from a rather "external" view.

When I was 19 years old, I wanted to really understand both religions, and I read the entire Quran and the entire Bible. I found that both are not contradictory to each other, and I decided to really practice Islam, learned my first Quran verses and started to pray Salat and really fast during daytime on Ramadan. It was a particularly hard entry because Ramadan was then in June, and the days were endless, but I happened to have an interim time without any duties before entering University. It really drove me down to the basics of my being, contemplation and calm. A break that let me think about who I am,why I live, how precious the small things in our lives are.

First times are always the most exciting, but I keep following Islam since then, and I kept studying the Bible, and am still convinced that both are one religion.

For me, Islam is my spiritual and practical reference, whereas I find the Word from Jesus precious for deeper understanding of the Wisdom behind.

I still see myself on the way, still learning and thinking. My mother has caught the same interests from me...

I am married to a Christian wife from Kenya where I was surprised to find out how much is similar to the culture I thought is Islam; they also circumcise male, slaughter and eat halal (but have no prohibition for alcohol); women and men meet separately... I am interested in how the original Eastern African religion (also monotheistic) was like, but most people have little knowledge of it because everyone adopted Islam or Christianity.

I think that there's a lot of wisdom behind religions. One cannot follow all at the same time but it is worth while to study the paths and teachings.
 
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