Your religious/spiritual journey

[RJM]

Not every Psalm was written by David.

@muhammad_isa accepts that.

Muslims seem to like David because the Qur'an mentions the Book of Psalms in a positive way

(21:105). “and we have decreed in the Book of Psalms (zabūr) after admonition that the righteous shall inherit the earth

 

[Faithfulservant]

@muhammad_isa accepts that.

Muslims seem to like David because the Qur'an mentions the Book of Psalms in a positive way

(21:105). “and we have decreed in the Book of Psalms (zabūr) after admonition that the righteous shall inherit the earth

Ohh I misread what he said!

 

[TheLightWithin]

The line "The hesychast is to pay extreme attention to the consciousness of his inner world and to the words of the Jesus Prayer, not letting his mind wander in any way at all." in the wiki makes me think it's along the lines of Hindu mantra meditation. There are many paths to the Divine.

Yes, I have long suspected that the "empty mind" talked about elsewhere is really nothing more than getting rid of distractions and intrusions from within. Not some weird dangerous thing that makes room for evil spirits or anything.

Now referring to our other discussions --trying to enter other realms thru astral travel or anything like we also talked about before -- that's a different story.
If we go somewhere else in this world, we need to know it's a safe place. There are places on this planet that are not survivable. So you don't want to end up just anywhere, thru regular travel or astral travel.
And the same caution applies to any attempt to "set foot" in another, unknown realm.

 

[Vasu Devan]

Now referring to our other discussions --trying to enter other realms thru astral travel or anything like we also talked about before -- that's a different story.
If we go somewhere else in this world, we need to know it's a safe place. There are places on this planet that are not survivable. So you don't want to end up just anywhere, thru regular travel or astral travel.
And the same caution applies to any attempt to "set foot" in another, unknown realm.

The safety restrictions can be much more relaxed since you are not taking your physical body with you. The soul, or mind, is much more resistant to damage than the body.

 

[talib-al-kalim]

Im always trying to reason things out for myself if I don't understand something and the bible isn't clear on it.. but I feel that applying what I do know I can theorize it. Prayer for example.. I can pray and my focus is completely on God as it's a conversation between He and and I'm open and receptive to the listening part.. if my mind is empty with nothing of God to ground it I really believe it makes you susceptible to the enemy. I really don't know how else to explain it to an unbeliever. Since I believe we have souls I do believe our souls can leave our bodies in a sense like astral projection. Do I think that's a good thing to do if your own will ? No

Link with scripture that helps me divide what I should and should not do. I don't know how I managed before the Internet and all we had was a concordance LOL I don't trust most pastors anymore because too many times they put feelings or opinions rather than teaching the entire word

What Does the Bible Say About Keeping Our Mind On Him?

Bible verses about Keeping Our Mind On Him

www.openbible.info

I would not even know where that be located in the bible to decide whether to believe or not. I do know that there is Jewish mysticism beliefs that I don't have opinions on as it's not part of my faith and would certainly not tell them they were wrong.

I really think we are similar in how we view meditation because it's more about utilizing our bodies as God created them. Breathing is an underused skill for sure as I notice when I'm tense I'm not breathing correctly.

I would say the purpose of everything we do is key. Maybe a demon would be very interested in my mind being empty and not someone who was an unbeliever? I'm not willing to risk it.. I have my own thought life corrupting me. I'm very conscious of sitting at church listening to my pastor teach and an inappropriate thought comes in.. like what the heck! Or reading the bible and suddenly become so sleepy for no reason. I ascribe that to the enemy which is my flesh the devil or the world. Regardless it makes it hard!

I don't have any experience in deep meditation techniques such as those Tibetan monks practice. I never came further than concentration on my body. Another kind-of-meditation I sometimes practice is to look at a plant or a small animal just somehow focussing on this being.

For me, this is almost a luxury (same as writing here and take the time to exchange) because there are enough things I ought to do.

But I don't fear the evil because I know and feel that God is always present, even if I don't think of Him directly. and I usually recognise evil thoughts in me (and they never came with the practices mentioned above, rather when listening or reading a news bulletin).

 

[moralorel]

I remember my grandfather fasting when I was little. I believe they were Jewish fasting days and was encouraged to engage in this practice by the Worldwide Church of God he was a part of.

Yep, they fasted for Yom Kippur. They also fasted at times for prayers.

 

[Niblo]

My journey:

I first attended a Welsh Baptist Sunday School at the age of six (almost seventy-two years ago). I became, at the age of fifteen, a Catholic; and remained one for over fifty years.

For ten years of these years, I was a professed member of the Carmelite Third Order – with a love of biblical and dogmatic theology; hermeneutics; biblical criticism; canon law, and so on. I had excellent teachers. I was a Thomist, and still have a very high regard for the methodology of Aquinas; although I can no longer agree with all his teachings.

I spent a year with the Carmelite Friars at Hazlewood Castle in Yorkshire (now a hotel); and over a year with the Cistercians (Trappists) at Mount Saint Bernard Abbey in Leicester, testing a vocation (I was a regular visitor to the Abbey for seven years prior to this, and knew the community well). My spiritual adviser was the Abbey’s Secretary; Fr Simon Cumming OCSO. It became clear that life in a religious order was not my calling, and so I became a husband and father (I recall Simon saying: ‘Our novitiate is a seedbed of good Catholic marriages!’). I look back at my time with the Carmelites and Cistercians with great affection. I admire their spirituality, their honest convictions; and their way of life – especially that of the Cistercians. It has been my privilege to know many excellent Christians: paternal grandfather; priests, religious and laity. Each was an example of the best of their Faith.

About twenty years ago, my son became a Muslim. Having obtained a degree in Classical Arabic at Leeds University, he married a Moroccan lass (who I consider to be my third daughter; her name is Sara); and now lives there. He is a translator of Qur’anic and aḥadīth exegesis; and of other scholarly works. One of Sara’s ancestors, ʻAbd al-Salām ibn Mashīsh al-ʻAlamī, was the spiritual guide of Abu al-Hasan ash-Shadhili, founder of the Shadhili Tariqa. My son is a Sufi of that Tariqa; and a murīd of Shaykh Seyyed Hossein Nasr.

Having gained a Muslim family, I made it my business to learn all I could about Islam (I’m still learning). It was during this long process that I began to question certain Christian beliefs I once held as true; and which I had defended many times over the years. Moving from Christianity to Islam was a very painful journey (emotionally); but it was the right journey……at least for me.

Blessings.

 

[muhammad_isa]

My journey:

I first attended a Welsh Baptist Sunday School at the age of six (almost seventy-two years ago). I became, at the age of fifteen, a Catholic; and remained one for over fifty years.
..
Blessings.

Assalam wa'alaikum brother

May Allah guide us all on an upright path. Ameen.

 

[Modesty]

For ten years of these years, I was a professed member of the Carmelite Third Order

I was planning on joining the Third Order Carmelites! Mostly because of my love for St. Therese.

Having gained a Muslim family, I made it my business to learn all I could about Islam (I’m still learning). It was during this long process that I began to question certain Christian beliefs I once held as true; and which I had defended many times over the years. Moving from Christianity to Islam was a very painful journey (emotionally); but it was the right journey……at least for me.

Thank you for sharing your story. Moving from Catholicism to Islam is quite the change; I can imagine it's been an interesting journey.

 

[Niblo]

Assalam wa'alaikum brother

May Allah guide us all on an upright path. Ameen.

Wa alaykum s-salāmu wa Rahmatullāhi wa Barakātuhu, Brother.

Thank you for your greeting. May Allāh (subḥānahu ūta'āla) reward you for your kindness.

 

[Niblo]

I was planning on joining the Third Order Carmelites! Mostly because of my love for St. Therese.



Thank you for sharing your story. Moving from Catholicism to Islam is quite the change; I can imagine it's been an interesting journey.

Greetings, Sister,

For me, it was St John of the Cross. His was the name I took at my profession. St. Therese will do just nicely.

Carmelite spirituality is sound, and a tonic for both heart and soul. I recommend you hasten to embrace it!

Not so great a change.

For sure there are differences of belief – irreconcilable differences – however, as a Muslim, I accept – without reservation – that the Beloved is our Creator and Lord; who can be known with certainty, by the natural light of reason from created things; who is absolutely perfect; who is actually infinite in every perfection; who is absolutely simple; who is the True God, possessing an infinite power of cognition; who is absolute Veracity; who is absolutely faithful; who is absolute ontological Goodness in Himself and in relation to others; who is absolute Moral Goodness or Holiness; who is absolute Benignity; who is absolutely immutable; who is eternal and everywhere present in created space; whose knowledge is infinite; whose Attributes really are identical among themselves and with His Essence; who is omnipotent; who is Lord of the heavens and of the earth; who is infinitely just and infinitely merciful. Above all, that He is One who loves

As you know, the Beloved is pure spirit, devoid of parts. This means that He cannot be divided; that wherever He happens to be (and, as I have said, He is everywhere) He is there in His entirety. This is why He is able to say: ‘We closer to (man) than his jugular vein.’ (Sūrah Qaf: 16). This is why it is possible for Him to have a personal relationship with each and every one of us.

It is a source of immeasurable wonder that the Beloved – the Master of the Universe – should say to each of us – fashioned as we are from the dust of the earth: ‘Remember Me; I will remember you.’ (Sūrah Al-Baqara: 152).

What is this, if not an invitation to enjoy a loving relationship with Him?

By far the hardest part of my particular journey was having to say to Yeshua (ʿalayhi as-salām) – in tears – that, in all conscience, I could no longer accept that he is divine. That I could no longer worship him as God.

Blessings.

 

[Thomas]

The safety restrictions can be much more relaxed since you are not taking your physical body with you. The soul, or mind, is much more resistant to damage than the body.

Evidence for that?

More UK servicemen who took part in the Falklands Conflict have died at their own hand since coming home than were killed in actual combat.

PTSD is a recognised condition.

In short, I think there's a wealth of evidence that refutes that assumption.

As for the Astral ... there's a whole Pandora's Box of Tricks right there ...

 

[Thomas]

When people express fear that this "empty mind" is dangerous, or in some way spiritually problematic, is there in fact any cause for concern, or is this due to misunderstanding what this experience is?

Likely a mix of things ... syncretically picking up el;ements from 'here' and applying them 'there' can be problematic ...

Classically, Meister Eckhart became a New Age Mystic of Choice because he got himself condemned by the Church (always a badge of honour), he was one who thought 'outside the (institutional) box' and was likened to a 'Zen Christian.

Actually, we're not even sure if he was a mystic in the visionary sense. We call him a 'speculative mystic'.
The condemnation (a political move) was never formally declared. The Church says he had and has no case to answer.
Those who think he 'thought outside the box' are blissfully unaware of the contents of the box! He was thoroughly steeped in the speculative tradition of Dominican spirituality. There are precedents, only he was more 'outspoken'.
Eckhart was also a very busy man on behalf of that same institution.

But that's me blethering ...

Probably 'empty mind' speaks of Buddhist or Far Eastern practice, and the alarms go off.

Whereas the concept of empty mind, in a Christian context, is clearly understood as speaking of the deeper/higher/whatever aspects of prayer – @Niblo or @Modesty can perhaps offer you more on this.

My 'thing' is Lectio Divina – lectio, meditatio, oratio, and contemplatio.

 

[Vasu Devan]

Evidence for that?

As for the Astral ... there's a whole Pandora's Box of Tricks right there ...

The mind/soul is not the brain. Fear wins when we are too much the slaves of our brain and believe everything it makes us aware of. It is possible for us to face instead of running away, from fear, in fear. If you truly trust the God being, you can face anything.

More UK servicemen who took part in the Falklands Conflict have died at their own hand since coming home than were killed in actual combat.

PTSD is a recognised condition.

So much of behavior has now been judged as mental illness and treatable with chemicals since psychiatry gained traction as a science. As one who has been treated by them, I know that these chemicals rarely work without other negative mental or physical side effects and that many fears and anxieties of the brain can alternately be treated with Eastern practices of relaxing the mind. Even global stats indicate there is less PTSD in Eastern than Western nations. When we fear the past we have been, we will also fear the future we may become.

In short, I think there's a wealth of evidence that refutes that assumption.

Without the knowledge of personal experience, evidence may only be accepted by many as true when it supports already existing beliefs. Experience of both what we want to and don't want to experience, will give a clearer knowledge, than assumptions, of the whole.

 

[EricPH]

The mind/soul is not the brain. Fear wins when we are too much the slaves of our brain and believe everything it makes us aware of. It is possible for us to face instead of running away, from fear, in fear. If you truly trust the God being, you can face anything.

When we go out with the Street Pastors late at night, we have to put our trust in God. We go out in our weakness and his strength. Every time I have walked in the middle of an angry drunken fight, I experience a profound sense of peace that is beyond my understanding.

It's very much like the story of St Pater in the Gospel of Matthew, 14.22. Peter is in the boat as the storm rages, he sees Jesus walking on the water, and Peter asks, can I walk over to you. Whilst Peter is standing in the boat, he is dependant on his own strength, but he has to do two things. He has to take the first step out of the boat, when he knows his strength will have no meaning. If Peter is then going to walk on water, he will only do this if he depends on Jesus, God.

 

[Thomas]

The mind/soul is not the brain.

As I see it, the mind and the soul are two different domains. There is inter-action, of course, but I don't see the relevance to my point?

Fear wins when ...

I was talking about PTSD, not necessarily fear.

It is possible for us to face instead of running away, from fear, in fear. If you truly trust the God being, you can face anything.

God ... Higher Power ... there are many ways of putting it, but if you don't believe in either, then ... also, there are those who face anything and everything without the need of God / Higher Power, etc.

... many fears and anxieties of the brain can alternately be treated with Eastern practices of relaxing the mind.

Indeed, but we need tread carefully. New Scientist (a UK journal) has reported the detrimental effects of 'mindfulness meditation' in some cases, and flag that the assertion that it's a 'positive without a negative' is a false premise. This is down to bad teachers, I think, more than the actual process, but those who gush on about Buddhist and other 'no-mind' states can trigger negative psychological states ...

I had a friend who got deeply into Zen – from books (Zen Flesh, Zen Bones being his bible) and ender up near suicidal.

Even global stats indicate there is less PTSD in Eastern than Western nations.

Not so sure about that ... I had a look at some studies and think it's a tad more complex than that.

+++

Going back to the astral – as I understand it, if one wants to make one's mark, as it were, it requires time, dedication, effort ... and a lot of it, and then, when you begin to maker your mark, you stand out, and then the time, dedication and effort hopefully stands one in good stead ...

Progress, as in everything, rather depends upon one's capacities and capabilities. It takes a lot of courage to stand up and look into the abyss that is the Dark Night of the Soul, which is why so few actually do.

 

[Modesty]

Whereas the concept of empty mind, in a Christian context, is clearly understood as speaking of the deeper/higher/whatever aspects of prayer – @Niblo or @Modesty can perhaps offer you more on this.

Yeah, I feel like in Catholicism the idea of "contemplation" is probably closer to the Eastern 'empty mind' idea than Catholic mediation. Because there is definitely a difference between contemplation and meditation in Catholicism. At least the way I've always understood it, meditation is active, deeply thinking about some holy subject like the mysteries of the Rosary or a verse from the Bible. Whereas contemplation is something more 'passive', a gift from God, pure communion with Him.

 

[JustGeorge]

Yeah, I feel like in Catholicism the idea of "contemplation" is probably closer to the Eastern 'empty mind' idea than Catholic mediation. Because there is definitely a difference between contemplation and meditation in Catholicism. At least the way I've always understood it, meditation is active, deeply thinking about some holy subject like the mysteries of the Rosary or a verse from the Bible. Whereas contemplation is something more 'passive', a gift from God, pure communion with Him.

Can you explain contemplation in this context? I'm unfamiliar with it.

I've found I do okay with 'empty the mind' meditation, and okay with guided meditation, but I tried passage meditation(where you meditate or repeat a passage mentally), and it gave me anxiety. Mantras were fine, though.

 

[Modesty]

Can you explain contemplation in this context? I'm unfamiliar with it.

I've found I do okay with 'empty the mind' meditation, and okay with guided meditation, but I tried passage meditation(where you meditate or repeat a passage mentally), and it gave me anxiety. Mantras were fine, though.

One way I've heard contemplation described is as looking at Jesus while He looks back at you. It's like, wordless prayer, just focusing completely on loving God and being aware of His love for you. In that sense its kind of like the empty mind mediation, because you're not supposed to be actively thinking about anything in particular, just sort of basking in the presence of God.

Here's a description of meditation vs. contemplation:


"Contemplative prayer consists of a more passive (and more sublime) experience of God. If Christian meditation is the soul’s inspired quest to discover God (our work of seeking God), contemplation is God’s lifting of the soul into himself (God’s work of embrace), so that it effortlessly basks in the divine light. The key distinction here is that contemplation, in the strict sense, is purely the work of God. Meditation, though aided by God and predicated upon the grace and work of Christ, is the result of our seeking him" (https://spiritualdirection.com/2011/05/30/contemplation-and-meditation-distinctions-and-interactions).

 

[Modesty]

I tried passage meditation(where you meditate or repeat a passage mentally), and it gave me anxiety. Mantras were fine, though.

I totally get that! The Rosary is a beautiful, beautiful prayer but at a certain point it gave me so much anxiety. I really like mantras too. I used to pray the Jesus Prayer (which is very short), and right now I'm praying the HU prayer from Eckankar (I'm very very skeptical of the religion, but I like the mantra).