Flawlessism, a new religion (within the past year)

No
talib-al-kalim said:
Starting from the very basic knowledge that the world existed before I was born, and that I existed before my children were born, it is clear to me that there are facts that are not bound to individual perception. There's also enough evidence that there was something before humans, or any living beings that would exist and be able to create an individual subjective reality.

So, there's by far enough evidence that there is plenty of "objective reality" that exists or existed what we do not perceive as individuals, even in collective knowledge of mankind, just our knowledge of it becomes less sharp, diminishing until not knowing anything about it, with distance of time and space.
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Not really . . . Consciousness is the only carrier of reality and existence that we can know. Everything else is abstraction. Our culture is driven by this notion that the real reality is outside consciousness. It’s a material universe fundamentally independent of consciousness, and our inner lives, our subjective experiences arise from specific arrangements of material in this abstract world outside the mind. That’s the philosophy of materialism that underlies most academic work and underlies most of science as you know it today.

You are the culmination of your experiences and those are filtered through your conscious awareness (or lack of), interpreted, evaluated, and filed. In this model, there is only one Reality and it is known through the mediation of our consciousness which is entirely Subjective. We experience our own consciousness directly, some of us actually control our experience of consciousness, but none of us can ever really experience the consciousness of another.

So, is your Subjective Universe all there really is?
This Subjective Universe, it is not your Id, your Ego, or that Super-Ego. It is what observes and experiences You. This Ultimate Conscious Reality is your Inner / Higher Self. Gurdjieff and many other great minds understood how very few of us are ever aware of this Greater Self/GodSelf, rather they go through life on automatic pilot, allowing others to push them in whatever directions are beneficial for Them, not you.
 
'Amir Alzzalam said:
No

Not really . . . Consciousness is the only carrier of reality and existence that we can know. Everything else is abstraction. Our culture is driven by this notion that the real reality is outside consciousness. It’s a material universe fundamentally independent of consciousness, and our inner lives, our subjective experiences arise from specific arrangements of material in this abstract world outside the mind. That’s the philosophy of materialism that underlies most academic work and underlies most of science as you know it today.

You are the culmination of your experiences and those are filtered through your conscious awareness (or lack of), interpreted, evaluated, and filed. In this model, there is only one Reality and it is known through the mediation of our consciousness which is entirely Subjective. We experience our own consciousness directly, some of us actually control our experience of consciousness, but none of us can ever really experience the consciousness of another.

So, is your Subjective Universe all there really is?
This Subjective Universe, it is not your Id, your Ego, or that Super-Ego. It is what observes and experiences You. This Ultimate Conscious Reality is your Inner / Higher Self. Gurdjieff and many other great minds understood how very few of us are ever aware of this Greater Self/GodSelf, rather they go through life on automatic pilot, allowing others to push them in whatever directions are beneficial for Them, not you.
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I don't share your religion. I don't seek a greater self. My spiritual guideline is Relationship. I am not alone. I live in society, surrounded by human culture and nature. I see goodness in the harmony between me and the environment, who are finally linked in the One God. Not myself, and nobody and nothing around me is God, but all belongs to God and has it's dignity and value.
 
talib-al-kalim said:
I don't share your religion. I don't seek a greater self. My spiritual guideline is Relationship. I am not alone. I live in society, surrounded by human culture and nature. I see goodness in the harmony between me and the environment, who are finally linked in the One God. Not myself, and nobody and nothing around me is God, but all belongs to God and has it's dignity and value.
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Well, good for you . . .
 
'Amir Alzzalam said:
Well, good for you . . .
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I understand this as a sign of tolerance in disagreement, that's fine for here.

I also expressed in the above statement that I don't contend with "good for myself", but I also care for other people and nature.

How do you see/feel/position yourself with other people and nature?
 
talib-al-kalim said:
I understand this as a sign of tolerance in disagreement, that's fine for here.

I also expressed in the above statement that I don't contend with "good for myself", but I also care for other people and nature.

How do you see/feel/position yourself with other people and nature?
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Nature is Objective Reality, and as such is a non-conscious, non-sentient, mechanism of entropy and negentropy. I give it no mind, it is simply another obstacle to overcome.

People? I respect those who deserve respect, I treat people as they treat me.
 
'Amir Alzzalam said:
Nature is Objective Reality, and as such is a non-conscious, non-sentient, mechanism of entropy and negentropy. I give it no mind, it is simply another obstacle to overcome.

People? I respect those who deserve respect, I treat people as they treat me.
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How is that working out?
 
Echogem222 said:
Flawlessism is more of a philosophy than a religion, but it's still a religion.

Flawlessism is restricted to 18+, not because it's required, but because that's just a part of the way Flawlessism is taught. It's possible that someone under that age could end up believing in it, but believers are encouraged not to teach it to people under that age.

For those of you that just want to dive headfirst into learning about Flawlessism rather than reading this short summary, you can do so on Reddit, where there's a Subreddit called: r/GoodAndEvilReligion (It's restricted to 18+ because of the reason I just explained above). As for why people under that age are discouraged from believing in Flawlessism is because it's also taught that to have faith in a positive way, educated critical thinking is needed, and personal experiences are discouraged. People who are under 18 generally have less experience and knowledge than people above 18, which makes their critical thinking skills lacking due to having less knowledge (This is just in general though, it's not meant to be a perfect way of doing things for everyone in every possible situation, it's just meant to try and prevent indoctrination as much as possible).

The core belief of Flawlessism is that a Flawless good exists, which is a good so perfect, it cannot be understood as evil (undesirable), in any way. This is just a belief though, something to have faith in exists without knowing. Now, you might be wondering what educated critical thinking has to do with such a belief that requires faith in such a way, and the answer to that has to do with how faith in Flawlessism occurs. In order to even have faith in the Flawless good, it must be understood how such a thing is even possible. And the explanation of how Flawlessism is possible is where educated critical thinking is needed to develop such an explanation in a reasonable to believe in way. Philosophy is used to explain the Flawless good, and you might think that you can't get an entire religion (which has reasonability for people to believe in) just by doing that, but that's where you'd be wrong, because that is what has been done, and the results speak for themselves.

Flawlessism is not a belief which is set in stone, only the core faith that a Flawless good exists is set in stone (unless such a thing is disproven as being possible, then the entire religion would have to be discarded because it wouldn't be something people could believe in anymore). Many times, errors have been made which have been found out and fixed, this can be done in a reasonable way because Flawlessism is founded with Philosophy, not a claimed Divine source (like a claimed prophet or something). But it's also because Flawlessism can change like that is why educated critical thinking is so strongly encouraged, so people can understand why the error that was fixed was an error or be able to debate that it's not an error if they understand that being the case. There is no individual leader in Flawlessism, everyone is taught to be their own leader. As for the founder of Flawlessism, that would be myself, and no one else (which isn't something that can change because it's just history at this point).

I'm making this post thread so people can at least have a general idea of what Flawlessism is since "I" (as a believer in Flawlessism) am taking part in this online community.

EDIT (8/11/23): On 8/8/23, a major change to Flawlessism has happened, no longer are there Gods in it, or even a God, it is now atheistic and non-theistic by definition until the meaning of those words change.

What is outside of reality in Flawlessism is not something which can be determined at all, it is only within reality which things are determined, so there being a concept greater than infinity has been deemed as partially incorrect since nothing outside of this reality can be determined (meaning how greater than infinity is was partially incorrect). In other words, it's still understood that there is a greater than everything which exists in this reality, but it's unknown what that is. So the concept of a God or Gods is something which exists within this reality, so such an existence(s) would not exist outside of our reality.
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A small challenge:
Religions also define basic or even elaborate rules for society. Could you give an example applying your rules on this example:

I live somewhere with my greater family cultivating some land with crops and some goats. The ressources are not sufficient. So I go and kill the neighbours and take their land and cattle.

What do you say on this?
 
I did not know that...but if you are using chatgpt to describe it better (or your treatise on logic)

I'll go ahead and blame the ai (or my brain) since neither makes any sense to me...seriously, none...don't bother trying.
 
'Amir Alzzalam said:
So, is your Subjective Universe all there really is?
This Subjective Universe, it is not your Id, your Ego, or that Super-Ego. It is what observes and experiences You. This Ultimate Conscious Reality is your Inner / Higher Self. Gurdjieff and many other great minds understood how very few of us are ever aware of this Greater Self/GodSelf, rather they go through life on automatic pilot, allowing others to push them in whatever directions are beneficial for Them, not you.
Click to expand...
That seems not all that different than Jung's Collective Unconscious...there may even be association with genetic memory.

Collective unconscious - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org

Genetic memory (psychology) - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org
 
juantoo3 said:
That seems not all that different than Jung's Collective Unconscious...there may even be association with genetic memory.

Collective unconscious - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org

Genetic memory (psychology) - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org
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Not really

The psyche is composed of three components:
⦁ Ego
⦁ Personal Unconscious
⦁ Collective Unconscious

The Ego is the conscious mind, the Personal Unconscious contains memories, including those that have been suppressed and the Collective Unconscious is the part of the psyche served as a form of psychological inheritance. It contains all of the knowledge and experiences we share as a species.

What differentiates Jung's Collective Unconsciousness from our Greater Self is that it is a plethora of memories (sort of) passed down (through DNA) from our earliest existence (Mankind's and possibly before). The GodSelf is a Singularity outside of objective reality and is the Essence and Kernal of what you are in this existence.
 
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