I know! How dare God not dish it up on a plate simple enough for you to understand!
Mythology is meta-fiction.
Sapere aude
- Thread starter Naturalist
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OK
I'm not insisting you believe, I'm just saying I believe in God, and my belief is reasoned and rational.
We are free to believe as we will. But if we misrepresent what another believes, we stand to be corrected.
Naturalist
Well-Known Member
Not even simple enough for me...not simple enough for people living in the Middle East in the late Bronze Age and all those people thousands of years since. An unintelligible message is poor communication. The message must not be very important.
You failed to answer my question, how do YOU know the difference between mythology and non-fiction?
Naturalist
Well-Known Member
Oh, your answer is like scripture...only you have the correct interpretation.
You must be proud.
You must be proud.
No, I'd bet others here got it. Have you asked?
Naturalist
Well-Known Member
They can chime in.
'Amir Alzzalam
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The Left Hand Path is a philosophy not a theistic faith
'Amir Alzzalam
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I find nothing rational or logical about theistic faith. The idea that one can reason God into existence is a failed project.
Tony Bristow-Stagg
One Planet One People Please
That is just a chosen frame of reference.
God's proof is the Messengers. That God exists, can only be known and reasoned through the Messengers. They are the mouth of God, they are the example God gives us.
So if we partake of a just, logical and reasoned search of their Person, their lives and the Claim that is given in the Book, we can get to Know about God.
Regards Tony
'Amir Alzzalam
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I don't find anything special about these so-called 'messengers' either . . . if there was a real god and as almighty as portrayed in scriptures, then every single individual would know without a shadow of doubt of this god's existence. This god can create the Universe but this same god cannot make itself undeniably known to everyone?
Why didn't "He" come himself?
Who are you talking about here?
It can't be God, surely? God CREATED the universe and all it contains..
..and you think that God should "just pop in" to His creation .. as what? A human being?
A crocodile? An amoeba? What .. exactly??
Who are you talking about here?
It can't be God, surely? God CREATED the universe and all it contains..
..and you think that God should "just pop in" to His creation .. as what? A human being?
A crocodile? An amoeba? What .. exactly??
But is it not a philosophy you have faith in? Why invest in it otherwise?
Is the LHP rational and logical?
Was it ever such a project? I don't think so.
Again, I'd have to ask how to you envisage the 'God' you regard as a failed project ... I might well agree with you.
'Amir Alzzalam
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You do know what 'faith' means, right?
I am using the word: strong belief in God or in the doctrines of a religion, based on spiritual apprehension rather than proof.
You are using the word: complete trust or confidence in someone or something.
Two different things . . .
Of course it's logical, it's also rational unlike many 'faiths'
Certainly a project and a failed one at that
Not sure what you are asking, but I'd be glad to expand on it . . .
'Amir Alzzalam
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It helps if you address the person you are replying to.
The meme is talking about any god, because none of them have ever materialized to explain they are the Truth, or that they are a god, or anything for that matter.
No one created the Universe
No one created everything in the Universe
Why shouldn't this 'god' pop in and let everyone what the story is? Why create a mystery? Why deny everyone the Truth?
An Omnipotent, Omniscient Being can do all that, after all this god according to you, created the Universe and all that is in it.
God should 'pop' in as something that everyone would notice, something undeniable as the truth . . . I mean come on, this is GOD the ALMIGHTY He can do ALL things!
It's all just a bunch of man-made philosophy.
Well, many people have faith in G-d..
..some people either cannot "see it", or don't want to "see it"..
..perhaps you are tuning to the wrong frequency .. try twisting the knob.
'Amir Alzzalam
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Well, many people have faith in G-d..
..some people either cannot "see it", or don't want to "see it"..
..perhaps you are tuning to the wrong frequency .. try twisting the knob.
"Faith is belief in the absence of evidence" Carl Sagan
I think so, but please, do we need be so combative?
Then yes, I am using the word in terms of its primary definition, faith in principle is 'a complete trust or confidence in someone/something.'
You are using a particular example of such – it can mean a strong belief in God, the doctrines of a religion.
It can equally mean a strong belief in, say, Buddhism, and non-theistic doctrines.
And it can equally mean a strong belief in a philosophy, and its doctrines.
(Aside: Your words "based on spiritual apprehension rather than proof" could well be another discussion entirely. Do we apprehend, and seek proof? Surely we don't seek proof for what we do not apprehend? And is it not that what we do apprehend, without the need for proof as such – day follows night, gravity works downwards, etc. – leads us to inquire into deeper, less obvious reasons and meanings, for which we do require proof ... which came first inquiry?)
If I combine both our approaches, I suppose I'm asking do you not have a belief in the LHP, its principles, doctrines and methods of determination?
Well people have faith in all manner of things: Gods, philosophy, science, humanity, politics and yes, not all of them are necessarily reasonable, rational or logical – people are weird and wonderful creatures!
It seems to me that neither the RHP nor the LHP can 'prove' itself to the satisfaction of a skeptic. It's ultimate claims rest on faith, not proof, although it can be argued.
Well that's a matter of opinion, it hardly weighs upon the central question.
You've used the term 'God' although you reject theism. If I may quote from your post 88:
Surely if comprehending a 'God' then the LHP is a theism?
In philosophical terms, this seems equivalent to autotheism, egotheism or autolatry – the deification of the self?
Is this not akin to the relation of atman to Brahman in Hinduism?
It is close to the Jain idea of the Tirthankara – a (self-)saviour by the extinction of all prior karma and transcending samsara – the endless cycles of birth and death?
wiki: "According to Jains, tirthankaras ... have conquered the saṃsāra, the cycle of death and rebirth, on their own... After understanding the true nature of the self or soul, the Tīrthaṅkara attains kevala jnana (omniscience)."
talib-al-kalim
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The topic of free will and responsibility vs. prédestination has been discussed in large among Muslim scholars.
In fact, what comes out when I rethought it myself is that consciousness may be the result of all influences we had, which are possibly physically determined, but they also include our spiritual development, and all we hear, and the expectations of those who are around us...
which can never be understood on the level of an underlying state of the world.
Even if everything is really physically determined, responsibility and awareness on the level of our understanding does play an important role, and this is where our rational and our irrational thoughts intervene.
This is also the reason why I don't believe in pure rationalism, as @Naturalist does.