There is no proof of God ...

Whereas my example only touches on a couple of reasons why God is Impossible, it doesn't make it false.

The concept of 'god' fails in that:
1) There is no evidence of such a god
2) The idea is illogical
3) The preponderance of suffering remains
4) We don’t need an external god
5) Life is better without god
I'm afraid it does – you can make a selective list as long as you like, but the point is it's an informal fallacy because you're excluding all the answers that have been made regarding the objections you list – there's nothing original or insightful about your five-point list, they've all been made before, and they've all been answered.
 
If God is morally perfect, then God has the desire to eliminate all evil..
..mmm, but maybe G-d is not in such a hurry as you are,
and allows mankind to determine their own future.

..now you might see that as "bad", but G-d knows better than you! :)
 
I'm afraid it does – you can make a selective list as long as you like, but the point is it's an informal fallacy because you're excluding all the answers that have been made regarding the objections you list – there's nothing original or insightful about your five-point list, they've all been made before, and they've all been answered.
Pick one and answer it then
 
That you believe in your Messengers is not itself sufficient reason for anyone else to.

If there were proof, the message would be irrefutable – it is not, therefore it is not a valid proof.

An article of faith, yes. A matter of conviction, yes, but proof? No.
Religious truth is subjective, therefore not a matter of proof.


That is the fallacy of Appeal to Authority.

(Mainstream Christianity, for example, refutes the idea that "the Unseen can in no wise incarnate His Essence" based on an Appeal to Authority argument – If you want to discuss is from the standpoint of the definition of 'God', we can do so elsewhere.)
Again, Appeal to Authority – a logical fallacy.
I see error is in that Logic and that is a grave error of Judgement.

If there is no evidence or proof of God, then to face judgement on one's choices and actions in life would be the most great injustice.

Imagine being judged against something that had no proof or evidence for.

I see all our knowledge is subjective, limited to our senses, our nature and nurture and to our state of being.

That science makes discoveries and names that discovery a specific thing, lets use the an example 'gravity', this does not mean they have nailed an objective truth. All knowledge is subject to change as our capacity of mind changes.

Likewise with Faith. Our capacity and knowledge of the spiritual aspect of our being is always subject to change.

This reflects the material world, there is always growth or decay, even when things appear stagnant.

Regards Tony
 
God Doesn't Exist

If God exists, then God is omnipotent, omniscient, and morally perfect.
If God is omnipotent, then God has the power to eliminate all evil.
If God is omniscient, then God knows when evil exists.
If God is morally perfect, then God has the desire to eliminate all evil.
Evil exists.
If evil exists and God exists, then either God doesn’t have the power to eliminate all evil, or doesn’t know when evil exists or doesn’t have the desire to eliminate all evil. Therefore . . .

God Doesn’t Exist
The other option is that we have been gifted the capacity of Good, with all the virtues and morals being our guide, and Evil is the consequence of not choosing to be good, thus life is each individuals subjective reality.

Thus the entire purpose of this matrix is perfect in design, perfect in purpose.

The imperfection is created of our own mind and actions.

Regards Tony
 
If there were proof, the message would be irrefutable – it is not, therefore it is not a valid proof.
That is Faith 101. Jesus said if you really want to find God, then pick up the cross and follow him.

Matthew 16: 24 Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.

25 For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it.

26 For what is a man profited, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul? or what shall a man give in exchange for his soul?

So the proof and evidence was Jesus, it required a just and reasoned approach to the evidence Jesus provided, His person, His life and the Message given of God.

This is applicable to Abraham, Moses and Muhammad, the Bab and Baha'u'llah, to name a few.

Regards Tony
 
The other option is that we have been gifted the capacity of Good, with all the virtues and morals being our guide, and Evil is the consequence of not choosing to be good, thus life is each individuals subjective reality.

Thus the entire purpose of this matrix is perfect in design, perfect in purpose.

The imperfection is created of our own mind and actions.

Regards Tony
Then we don’t require an external God – he is an unnecessary addition, and we can get along perfectly well without him.

The primary arguments often cited to justify the "need" for God include the role of a personal savior or guardian, and the assertion that without God (and religion), discerning moral principles becomes uncertain.
Human morality does not derive its existence from God or the Bible. The understanding that killing is wrong doesn't hinge on divine commandments or the fear of eternal punishment.

A compelling example is the operation of most Western states, which function on the foundation of constitutions and the rule of law, independent of religious influence or the Bible. The act of taking a life carries legal repercussions, and the majority of morally conscious individuals recognize it as inherently wrong without relying on a supernatural mandate.

The concept of God may offer comfort and serve as an explanation for the universe's mysteries. However, it's inaccurate to claim that God is "needed." Numerous individuals, myself included, lead fulfilling lives without a belief in God or adherence to religion. We don't spiral into chaos or societal exile without a deity guiding us.
While some find solace in belief, which is their prerogative, it's neither essential nor adequate for leading a virtuous life.

Plato, the ancient Greek philosopher, discussed the concepts of good and evil in various dialogues, particularly in his work "The Republic" and "The Symposium."

In "The Republic," Plato explores the idea of the "Form of the Good." He suggests that there exists an ultimate form or idea of goodness, which is the source of all other virtues and qualities. According to Plato, the pursuit of knowledge and the contemplation of the Forms lead individuals closer to understanding the essence of goodness. Plato also emphasizes the importance of reason and the harmony of the soul in achieving a virtuous life. He believes that ignorance is the root of evil, and that true knowledge leads to virtue and goodness.

In summary, Plato's views on good and evil revolve around the pursuit of knowledge, the existence of an ultimate form of goodness, and the importance of reason and virtue in leading a morally upright life.
 
God Doesn't Exist

If God exists, then God is omnipotent, omniscient, and morally perfect.
If God is omnipotent, then God has the power to eliminate all evil.
If God is omniscient, then God knows when evil exists.
If God is morally perfect, then God has the desire to eliminate all evil.
Evil exists.
If evil exists and God exists, then either God doesn’t have the power to eliminate all evil, or doesn’t know when evil exists or doesn’t have the desire to eliminate all evil. Therefore . . .

God Doesn’t Exist
You have proven that the first statement is false in at least one point.

My belief is that God is not "morally perfect", because moral is bound to humans. You can't apply our moral on any other being; higher animals also have moral codes, but they are different from ours. God is not human.
 
You have proven that the first statement is false in at least one point.

My belief is that God is not "morally perfect", because moral is bound to humans. You can't apply our moral on any other being; higher animals also have moral codes, but they are different from ours. God is not human.
This topic is explained in great detailing the Baha'i Wrirings and basically you are correct, God is not defined by the virtues.

There is much that could be offered on this topic.

The animating source of creation, the Holy Spirit defines the virtues through the perfect Human, the Messengers, which we are creates in the Image of.

Great topic.

Regards Tony
 
You have proven that the first statement is false in at least one point.
Do tell where I have proven this.
My belief is that God is not "morally perfect", because moral is bound to humans. You can't apply our moral on any other being; higher animals also have moral codes, but they are different from ours. God is not human.
The Abrahamic god is defined in Abrahamic scriptures as 'morally perfect' as well as omniscient and omnipotent.
 
What about my statement do you not understand?
You ask what the reasoning is.. it's self explanatory.
I asked what the reasoning would be behind that statement?
"[god] allows mankind to determine their own future"

Where is the reasoning behind free will but with obvious consequences?
That is not free will, that is Black Mail.

Genesis 3:22 notes, “The man has now become like one of us, knowing good and evil. He must not be allowed to reach out his hand and take also from the tree of life and eat, and live forever.”

God is speaking in this verse. The Serpent told Eve, “God knows that when you eat from it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil” (Genesis 3:5). The Serpent enabled the apotheosis of Mankind (Adam & Eve) much to Yahweh's disgust. Much like Prometheus before, stealing Fire from Zeus and giving it to Mankind. The Serpent enabled Adam & Eve to separate from the chains of a controlling, jealous, god.

The original sin contends that every human life begins under the curse of the Abrahamic god. Which is another lie used to guilt, shame, and fear Mankind into subservience to Yahweh the Semitic war god. Not knowing Evil, Eve was obviously naive and innocent, she wouldn't know that disobeying God's command would be Evil, how could she? So, in essence, she is not committing a Sin, there is no Evil other than Yahweh's Evil.
 
I see error is in that Logic and that is a grave error of Judgement.
Pray enlighten me ...

If there is no evidence or proof of God, then to face judgement on one's choices and actions in life would be the most great injustice.
Cart before the horse ... you're assuming a judgement.

I see all our knowledge is subjective, limited to our senses, our nature and nurture and to our state of being.
Then you can offer nothing of any certainty with regard to the OP.
 
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