I converted to Jehovah's Witnesses

RJM said:
It seems to me that all the JW posting on this thread became JW as their first experience of belief in God? It is the ship that rescued them from drowning, and it is the ship they know.

I wonder how many folks actually 'jump ship' to JW from other faiths or other Christian denominations?
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My Mother is full-blooded Italian from Italy and all her family is Catholic, my stepfather is German and his family is Protestant, and I first went to church weekly as a Protestant.
 
OupaPiet said:
Perhaps you did not understand my question and methodology Walter.
I don't want you to preach to me on what you believe or not, that's besides the point. I believe Jesus is God the Word of YHWH.
Our beliefs and dogma is something we can discuss later-on if needed.

My question to the JW's are:
The JW's don't believe that man has an immortal spirit, nor can flesh and blood enter heaven, yet you believe there will be 144 000 people in heaven next to God.

My question is very simple.
What of these people will go to heaven?

I am of the opinion that the Bible and Tract society are not telling the truth about the Spiritual realm as the Bible clearly describes, and this question is the ultimate litmus test to the validity of the Bible and Tract society's doctrines, which denies the divinity of Jesus.

Just as YHWH has an existence of light, which we can call His body, and He has the Holy Spirit within Himself, which we saw in the very first verses of the Bible when His Spirit left His existence and entered into creation, and He has a Mind, which we call the Word of God which entered into a man's body to live among us; The very same we have the Human in a mortal body, a Spirit within our existence and a Mind which is our word.

Now, before we even want to deny the Trinity, and the Divinity of Jesus, the Holy Ghost, and the Father in which these 3 dwell, we will have to first be able to deny that Man was not created in the image of God which as I have shown, we are also a trinity, but one person.

Now, this is where the Bible and Tract society fails horrendously.
They deny the existence of the Human spirit.

Therefore, If I learn from the Bible, and from the words of Jesus that man has a spirit, then I can safely conclude that the Bible Tract society are teaching a message contrary to the Bible.

Therefore, up until the JW's can tell me what of man will enter heaven, I have the right to bluntly say that they are attempting to feed me a falsehood.
I am sorry to speak these words, but it is up to the JW's who made this story up to prove me wrong.
Greetings.
Oh, by not being able to answer me, you are just one more name on a very long list that cant answer the deception of their organisation.
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Hello. I notice one of your first comments in the above post where you say you don't want Walter to preach to you about his beliefs but then you go on to preach about your beliefs.
 
OupaPiet said:
NS, It is not as you say, "not an easy subject..."on the contrary, it is very simple.
You have a Spirit within your body, and you have a mind within that Spirit.
If you die, it is only your flesh and bones that die!
Your spirit ends up in heaven or hell.

It becomes difficuilt if you try to dodge my question.
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What does the word hell in the Bible mean?
 
CharlieSmith said:
Hello. I notice one of your first comments in the above post where you say you don't want Walter to preach to you about his beliefs but then you go on to preach about your beliefs.
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No, I asked him the question no JW could eve answer.
If flesh and blood dont enter heaven, and you dont have a spirit, what of you will enter heaven?
Simple Question.
Simple answer too.
Nothing will then enter heaven.
Short version of the Bible and Tract Society is:
No Human will enter JW heaven. They will all live on earth for a thousand years, then will be destroyed.
What a waste of energy.
Reading the Watchtower, meeting in the Kingdom hall, visiting homes knocking on doors, giving money to the Organisation...
All of that for a measly 1 000 years on Earth!
Nope, I want to know from the Jehovah witnesses how to get into heaven to live for eternity in my Spiritual body that will never age, hurt, ill, die, hunger, feel sad.....
 
CharlieSmith said:
What does the word hell in the Bible mean?
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Figuratively Gehenna (Ge' Himnon) is the place of burning all the rubbish.
Hades/ Sheol/ tartarus is a place where the spirits of the dead is kept until the judgement day.
I dont care for the meanings at all. It can mean grave etc if you really want to split hairs.
However, it is clear through the words of Jesus that you will end up in a place of burning pain if you die unsaved. Period.

I am not here to preace.
Jesus gave the fullest description of where the spirits will be kept after death.
There will be 2 areas, one of comfort and one of burning pain. And a great divide in between.
 
OupaPiet said:
Figuratively Gehenna (Ge' Himnon) is the place of burning all the rubbish.
Hades/ Sheol/ tartarus is a place where the spirits of the dead is kept until the judgement day.
I dont care for the meanings at all. It can mean grave etc if you really want to split hairs.
However, it is clear through the words of Jesus that you will end up in a place of burning pain if you die unsaved. Period.

I am not here to preace.
Jesus gave the fullest description of where the spirits will be kept after death.
There will be 2 areas, one of comfort and one of burning pain. And a great divide in between.
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Do you think this pain could be emotional suffering coming from the realization and regret for the wrong and pain I've caused to others? Sometimes without knowing at the time what I was really doing?

Not punishment but karma -- the pendulum return swing?
 
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RJM said:
Do you think this pain could be emotional suffering coming from the realization and regret for the wrong and pain I've caused to others? Sometimes without knowing at the time what I was really doing?

Not punishment but karma -- the pendulum return swing?
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I will tell you what I think.
But promise me you wont believe what I say.
It is up to you to go and check for yourself. I dont want to answer to God that I deceived you into something that is wrong.
 
I read that God is light, and there is no darkness in Him.
He is immortal and did not create death.
I also learned that God created Adam and Eve in His image.
Furthermore, Adam and Eve were created immortal because, God said it they eat from the fruit of the tree of knowledge, they will die.
This means they were initially immortal and did not age.
After eating the fruit, they lost their immortality and started to age.
Something changed in their composition.
They also did not know they were naked.
Therefore, they looked like God with light shining from them-self when they were still in their sinless state. ( I am reminded of the time when God spoke to Moses face to face, and Moses radiated light when he returned to the camp of Israel. Jesus was also covered with a bright light during the glorification, as well as when He ascended into heaven.)

This means that Adam and eve were not beings of flesh, blood and bone, but were living as an energy, light covered spirit.

In today's scientific era we will say Adam and eve were bodies on Energy on the verge of turning into matter.

Now, the whole universe was in the same state of existence. Everything is connected through this light radiated by this energy.

We continue. If this was an era without any death, and Sin, and through Sin came Death into the World, it means there was a huge change in the density of matter that turned out as we know everything today.
As everything condensed into the solid matter we are today, we lost much of the light we radiated.
Therefore, Paradise must have been incredibly beautiful with all the plants and animals, soil, air, water etc. shining light from itself.
No need to eat, but to receive the radiation from God's presence to live from.
Even the words spoken by God will be life feeding energy.

Great, now Satan came and made Adam and Eve disobey God.
Everything changed. We lost out light, realized we are naked, started to age.
We were now removed from God in this state of matter we changed into. (I remember that God told Moses he will die if he sees the full forces of Hid body.)

Now, Satan achieved into removing the friends which God created for himself.
How can God get us back to Him. We cant change our existence from matter back to energy and light.
Only he can do so.
In the mean time God needs blood to cover our sinful state to protect us from His radiation.
We will simply fry in His presence.

Albeit the daily sacrifices since God slaughtered animals to cover Adam and eve in skins covered with blood, until the time of Christ.

Jesus (the Word / Mind of YHWH) came, and the divine plan of God was fulfilled where He was sacrificed, Died, went to the kingdom of the dead spirits, told them that He will be the first to be resurrected to life in the original state as was Adam and Eve, and He will have a body of light, which we will receive also, and will ascend into Heaven to be with God.

Now lets see what happens to the spirits that does not have the holy and clean body which Christ has (The second Adam body). The body which we will receive.

That spirit will still be removed from the presence of God.

But it is impossible for any spirit to escape the presence of the radiation light of God, because He is omnipresent.

This is where everything makes sense.
The Spirit can not cope the presence of God without the covering of the body of radiating light.
Thats why Jesus was the first to die, to rid the body of flesh, to enter the realm of the kingdom of death, and to change into a holy body that can appear in front of god.
Those that denied Jesus does not have the capability to create a body of light for themself.
It does not matter where they are, they will fry because God;s presence is everywhere.

This is how I see it.
Dont believe me.
Just take it as another option of what the Gospel and NT teaches.
Also, dont just dump it, if you did not ponder over it.
 
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OupaPiet said:
No, I asked him the question no JW could eve answer.
If flesh and blood dont enter heaven, and you dont have a spirit, what of you will enter heaven?
Simple Question.
Simple answer too.
Nothing will then enter heaven.
Short version of the Bible and Tract Society is:
No Human will enter JW heaven. They will all live on earth for a thousand years, then will be destroyed.
What a waste of energy.
Reading the Watchtower, meeting in the Kingdom hall, visiting homes knocking on doors, giving money to the Organisation...
All of that for a measly 1 000 years on Earth!
Nope, I want to know from the Jehovah witnesses how to get into heaven to live for eternity in my Spiritual body that will never age, hurt, ill, die, hunger, feel sad.....
Click to expand...
If I remember correctly you have quite an interesting background and endeavors. Is your first language English? Sorry, I correct that, I reviewed your description and see that English is your third language. Nice that you can speak 3 languages, not everyone has that capability.
 
OupaPiet said:
Figuratively Gehenna (Ge' Himnon) is the place of burning all the rubbish.
Hades/ Sheol/ tartarus is a place where the spirits of the dead is kept until the judgement day.
I dont care for the meanings at all. It can mean grave etc if you really want to split hairs.
However, it is clear through the words of Jesus that you will end up in a place of burning pain if you die unsaved. Period.

I am not here to preace.
Jesus gave the fullest description of where the spirits will be kept after death.
There will be 2 areas, one of comfort and one of burning pain. And a great divide in between.
Click to expand...
What's in between?
I'd also wonder why you don't care for the meanings of Hades, sheol, etc. perhaps we can go over when I get some time to dig deeper into this.
 
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Good things to happen in the future 💖 [ Only scripture ] nothing else, no extra words of advice. & Read the surrounding text too.

Just a little while longer, and the wicked will be no more; You will look at where they were, And they will not be there. 11 But the meek will possess the earth, And they will find exquisite delight in the abundance of peace. --Psalms 37:10-11

May your Kingdom come soon. May your will be done on earth, as it is in heaven. --Matthew 6:10 New Living Translation

“In the days of those kings the God of heaven will set up a kingdom that will never be destroyed. And this kingdom will not be passed on to any other people. It will crush and put an end to all these kingdoms, and it alone will stand forever, --Daniel 2:44, Luke 1:31-33, Isaiah 9:6-7

A generation is going, and a generation is coming, But the earth remains forever. -- Ecclesiastes 1:4

He has established the earth on its foundations; It will not be moved from its place forever and ever. --Psalms 104:5

Blessed are the meek, for they will inherit the earth. --Matthew 5:5

But we are looking forward to the new heavens and new earth he has promised, a world filled with God’s righteousness. --2 Peter 3:13, Isaiah, 66:22

And the righteous ones inherit the Earth and dwell upon it for eternity. --Psalms 37:29 Aramaic Bible in Plain English

Then I heard a loud voice from the throne: Look, God’s dwelling is with humanity, and he will live with them. They will be his peoples, and God himself will be with them and will be their God. --Revelation 21:1-3 Christian standard Bible

enjoy good health and youthful energy.—Job 33:25

have plenty to eat, a comfortable home, and satisfying work.—Psalm 72:16; Isaiah 65:21, 22

experience abundance of peace. —Psalm 37:11

He will swallow up death forever, And the Sovereign Lord Yahweh will wipe away the tears from all faces. --Isaiah 25:8

And no resident* will say: “I am sick.” —Isaiah 33:24; 35:5, 6.

justice will reside in the wilderness, And righteousness will dwell —Isaiah 32:16, 17

He is bringing an end to wars throughout the earth. —Psalm 46:9.

For look! I am creating new heavens and a new earth; And the former things will not be called to mind, Nor will they come up into the heart.
—Isaiah 65:17.
 
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RJM said:
It seems to me that all the JW posting on this thread became JW as their first experience of belief in God? It is the ship that rescued them from drowning, and it is the ship they know.

I wonder how many folks actually 'jump ship' to JW from other faiths or other Christian denominations?
Click to expand...
Hi there, RJM. Not sure what you mean about first experience of belief in God. I was brought up in the Jewish religion and did not believe in anything else, but in a way you're right. As a Jew I had no concept of God although sometimes I would pray. Yes, I was drowning. When I learned about God from Jehovah's Witnesses I believe I was rescued. My life changed, for the better.
 
OupaPiet said:
I read that God is light, and there is no darkness in Him.
He is immortal and did not create death.
I also learned that God created Adam and Eve in His image.
Furthermore, Adam and Eve were created immortal because, God said it they eat from the fruit of the tree of knowledge, they will die.
This means they were initially immortal and did not age.
After eating the fruit, they lost their immortality and starte
Click to expand...
Would you agree that Adam and Eve were not created as infants but in the form of adults, would you agree?
 
OupaPiet said:
I read that God is light, and there is no darkness in Him.
He is immortal and did not create death.
I also learned that God created Adam and Eve in His image.
Furthermore, Adam and Eve were created immortal because, God said it they eat from the fruit of the tree of knowledge, they will die.
This means they were initially immortal and did not age.
After eating the fruit, they lost their immortality and started to age.
Something changed in their composition.
They also did not know they were naked.
Therefore, they looked like God with light shining from them-self when they were still in their sinless state. ( I am reminded of the time when God spoke to Moses face to face, and Moses radiated light when he returned to the camp of Israel. Jesus was also covered with a bright light during the glorification, as well as when He ascended into heaven.)

This means that Adam and eve were not beings of flesh, blood and bone, but were living as an energy, light covered spirit.

In today's scientific era we will say Adam and eve were bodies on Energy on the verge of turning into matter.

Now, the whole universe was in the same state of existence. Everything is connected through this light radiated by this energy.

We continue. If this was an era without any death, and Sin, and through Sin came Death into the World, it means there was a huge change in the density of matter that turned out as we know everything today.
As everything condensed into the solid matter we are today, we lost much of the light we radiated.
Therefore, Paradise must have been incredibly beautiful with all the plants and animals, soil, air, water etc. shining light from itself.
No need to eat, but to receive the radiation from God's presence to live from.
Even the words spoken by God will be life feeding energy.

Great, now Satan came and made Adam and Eve disobey God.
Everything changed. We lost out light, realized we are naked, started to age.
We were now removed from God in this state of matter we changed into. (I remember that God told Moses he will die if he sees the full forces of Hid body.)

Now, Satan achieved into removing the friends which God created for himself.
How can God get us back to Him. We cant change our existence from matter back to energy and light.
Only he can do so.
In the mean time God needs blood to cover our sinful state to protect us from His radiation.
We will simply fry in His presence.

Albeit the daily sacrifices since God slaughtered animals to cover Adam and eve in skins covered with blood, until the time of Christ.

Jesus (the Word / Mind of YHWH) came, and the divine plan of God was fulfilled where He was sacrificed, Died, went to the kingdom of the dead spirits, told them that He will be the first to be resurrected to life in the original state as was Adam and Eve, and He will have a body of light, which we will receive also, and will ascend into Heaven to be with God.

Now lets see what happens to the spirits that does not have the holy and clean body which Christ has (The second Adam body). The body which we will receive.

That spirit will still be removed from the presence of God.

But it is impossible for any spirit to escape the presence of the radiation light of God, because He is omnipresent.

This is where everything makes sense.
The Spirit can not cope the presence of God without the covering of the body of radiating light.
Thats why Jesus was the first to die, to rid the body of flesh, to enter the realm of the kingdom of death, and to change into a holy body that can appear in front of god.
Those that denied Jesus does not have the capability to create a body of light for themself.
It does not matter where they are, they will fry because God;s presence is everywhere.

This is how I see it.
Dont believe me.
Just take it as another option of what the Gospel and NT teaches.
Also, dont just dump it, if you did not ponder over it.
Click to expand...
Ok, I see the Adam and Eve story as the 'descent' of pure spirit into the dimension of nature (time and space) receiving 'coats of skin' and becoming natural creatures bound by material bodies that age and die. It is the dimension of knowledge of good and evil -- the zebra dies or the lion starves. Every natural creature must take life to sustain its own. That is the concept of original sin.

Spirit is like the house that contains and permeates the 'room' of nature. In the same way that the room of nature is bound and held together by time and space, the 'house' of spirit is bound by love -- in the higher spiritual sense that all is One and returns to the One. The greater wheel of spirit turns the lesser wheel of nature, but is not turned by it.

The house of spirit contains infinite other rooms or dimensions than just our own dimension of nature.

'My Father's house has many mansions'
 
CharlieSmith said:
Would you agree that Adam and Eve were not created as infants but in the form of adults, would you agree?
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G-d knows best .. I don't need to know that, in order to believe that G-d created the universe
and all it contains.

Welcome to the forums, by the way. :)
 
I think I should have asked first, is anyone interested in scriptures about good things that will happen in the future? I am learning, I will not just post scriptures unless someone asks for them. :)
 
walter said:
I think I should have asked first, is anyone interested in scriptures about good things that will happen in the future? I am learning, I will not just post scriptures unless someone asks for them. :)
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Good things for everybody?

What about Hindu, Taoist, Buddhist, Muslim, African religion, Native American, Jewish, Catholic, Rastafarian -- JW aren't expecting to share paradise?

What about my Mum and Dad or children whom I shun for not believing what I do? They're all shut out?


A Google page of Bible extracts out of context -- it's no answer, imo
 
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RJM said:
Good things for everybody?

What about Hindu, Taoist, Buddhist, Muslim, African religion, Native American, Jewish, Catholic, Rastafarian -- JW aren't expecting to share paradise?

What about my Mum and Dad or children whom I shun for not believing what I do? They're all shut out?


A Google page of Bible extracts out of context -- it's no answer, imo
Click to expand...
Yes good things for everybody! The Bible is not written for a certain group, it is written for everybody!

I agree with you reading all the surrounding context and pay attention to what's being talked about. The Bible itself should be the ultimate source of direction to form any belief, not men from any religion, including mine.

You might have been misinformed, JW's don't feel they are getting everlasting life unless they "observe all the commands" Jesus gave.
--Matthew 28:20, 2 Thessalonians 1:8-9, Hebrews 5:9, John 14:15, Luke 8:21, Romans 1:18; 2:8, Hebrews 10:26-27, John 3:36 JW's are no better off than anyone that does not listen to Jesus words!

Anyone could say any scripture is "extracted out of context", I guess if I can't use scriptures alone the next time I will just whistle a tune.

I guess the next time you quote any scripture at all, i'll just have to come back with oh that's out of context. Sorry you have such little faith in my ability to read and understand the simplest things.

As for other faiths, don't they have different Holy Scriptures? Not only do I feel I myself am not getting everlasting life unless I observe all Jesus commands, I don't judge anybody of anything in any other religion. All JW's believe they must listen to all Jesus words. They are not special in any way whatsoever!
 
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