I converted to Jehovah's Witnesses

OupaPiet said:
Hi Caritas.
My Question is one I asked since 1986 to my JW family.
I never received an answer.
It goes like this.
> The JW's believe that the human does not have an eternal spirit living within their body of flesh and blood.
>The JW's believe that no flesh and blood will ever enter in Heaven.
>The JW's believe there will be 144 000 JW's resurrected to God in Heaven.
Therefore the question is obvious:

What substance of these 144000 humans will live with God in Heaven?

PN, I had many answers such as
1. "God will re create these people from His Mind as He remembered you."
This answer is illogical, because what does it help anyone if God creates something else to receive everlasting life. If there is no spirit living in my body now that will end up in heaven, or at least one living cell or hair, that thing the JW god will create will not be me at all. If He uses nothing of myself, then it is not me.

2. "God will take your consciousness and will create you again." OK, This I accept. But note that all you did was to change my description of a 'Spirit' to that of a 'Consciousness'. so the Christians were right all along. God will take my Consciousness to heaven. We just called it our spirit.

3. This is the last answer I got. "God alone knows how He will be able to have these 144 000 people living in Heaven with Him. We should only trust upon him."
To me this answer is the easy way out for the simple reason. The JWO's were quick to dismiss the spirit of man early in the previous century, and they were just as quick to create the dogma about the 144000 JW's that will enter heaven; that they completely forgot that the 144000 are made of flesh and blood and if resurrected, will not be able to enter heaven! That sieve at the pearly gates is too fine to allow blood and flesh. The JW's 144000 will stay outside in the traffic trying to push the first guys through the obstacle.

In the meantime, the spirit of of Moses and Elijah, who was with Jesus on the mountain during the transfiguration, and the poor man Lazarus and all the spirits who are with Abraham, will have no problem to pass through into heaven in their spiritual bodies, which lived in their flesh and blood bodies which they had on earth.

Do you have another option on how a JW can enter into heaven?
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Several people have been resurrected in the Bible, each experience is proof of what actually happens, look up each resurrection and read the surrounding scriptures to determine what the difference is, if there is any.

I am a Jehovah's Witness I look for the scriptures in the in the Bible they bring me hope, joy, happiness, peace of mind and comfort, the Bible is my rock, I myself do not worry or think about details that will rob me of this joy I find in the Holy Scriptures. :) 💕 💖

Joy and Happiness will come if you keep looking for it. 144,000 is explained in the Bible. Don't let a single thing hold you back from all the wonderful thoughts you can imagine that are based on the promises God gives us in the Bible.
 
walter said:

What Is the Resurrection?​

The Bible’s answer
In the Bible, the word translated as “resurrection” comes from the Greek a·naʹsta·sis, which means “raising up” or “standing up again.” A person who is resurrected is raised up from death and restored to life as the person he was before.—1 Corinthians 15:12, 13.

Although the word “resurrection” is not in the Hebrew Scriptures, often called the Old Testament, the teaching appears there. Through the prophet Hosea, for example, God promised: “From the power of the Grave I will redeem them; from death I will recover them.”—Hosea 13:14; Job 14:13-15; Isaiah 26:19; Daniel 12:2, 13.

if you want more information on earthly resurrection or heavenly resurrection see the link below..

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Walter what do you know of the 1844 predictions?

May God be with you always.

Also @Caritas

Regards Tony
 
walter said:
I agree with you, the words of King David and the words of the Apostles, sound like it's going to happen very soon, but then thousands of years pass.
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The Bible does offer that One day of God can be a 1,000 years.

2 Peter 3:8 one day is like a thousand years.

Also of interest is that in the quran it repeats the one days is as 1,000 years, but also adds it is likened to 50,000 years

(22:47 and 32:5), the measure of one day in the sight of Allah is equal to 1,000 years of our reckoning.
(70:4) it says that the measure of one day in the sight of Allah is equal to 50,000 years of our reckoning.

Regards Tony
 
Tony Bristow-Stagg said:
The Bible does offer that One day of God can be a 1,000 years.

2 Peter 3:8 one day is like a thousand years.

Also of interest is that in the quran it repeats the one days is as 1,000 years, but also adds it is likened to 50,000 years

(22:47 and 32:5), the measure of one day in the sight of Allah is equal to 1,000 years of our reckoning.
(70:4) it says that the measure of one day in the sight of Allah is equal to 50,000 years of our reckoning.

Regards Tony
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I agree with you It sounds like either way you look at, it's a lot longer than a day in human terms.
 
walter said:
I am not familiar with 1844 predictions, but I do know, that The Apostles expected the kingdom of God to come in their lifetime. Over 2,000 years ago. Jesus said my kingdom is no part of this world --John 18:36
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I note you are the same vintage as myself.

I have had many hours of conversations with JW friends, one now being in his 90's. 1844 was still a known part of the JW faith back in our first conversations in the early 80's, he was quite knowledgeable on its origins.

I wish you always well and happy and in God we trust.

I will give a parting though about the 1260 days of Revelation, which can also be seen as 1260 years, if we use the bible verses that say each day is a year. The year AD1844, was also the year AH1260.

Regards Tony
 
Tony Bristow-Stagg said:
I note you are the same vintage as myself.

I have had many hours of conversations with JW friends, one now being in his 90's. 1844 was still a known part of the JW faith back in our first conversations in the early 80's, he was quite knowledgeable on its origins.

I wish you always well and happy and in God we trust.

I will give a parting though about the 1260 days of Revelation, which can also be seen as 1260 years, if we use the bible verses that say each day is a year. The year AD1844, was also the year AH1260.

Regards Tony
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Thank You for your kind friendly words, I appreciate your words. :) 💖
 
walter said:
I am not familiar with 1844 predictions, but I do know, that The Apostles expected the kingdom of God to come in their lifetime. Over 2,000 years ago. Jesus said my kingdom is no part of this world --John 18:36
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The Bible is full of passages that seem ro be in conflict, we quote one to support a view and bingo, there is another we are not able to use, as it seems to be in contradiction.

The Lords Prayer says "Thy Kingdom Come, thy Will be done on Earth as it is in Heaven".

It appears in contrast to what you offered from the Bible in John 18.

This is a lesson we should take from John:18, would you agree?

"....To this end was I born, and for this cause came I into the world, that I should bear witness unto the truth. Every one that is of the truth heareth my voice..."

Regards Tony
 
Tony Bristow-Stagg said:
The Bible is full of passages that seem ro be in conflict, we quote one to support a view and bingo, there is another we are not able to use, as it seems to be in contradiction.

The Lords Prayer says "Thy Kingdom Come, thy Will be done on Earth as it is in Heaven".

It appears in contrast to what you offered from the Bible in John 18.

This is a lesson we should take from John:18, would you agree?

"....To this end was I born, and for this cause came I into the world, that I should bear witness unto the truth. Every one that is of the truth heareth my voice..."

Regards Tony
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Yes these scriptures seem to conflict at first look, Jesus reveals in one scripture that his kingdom is not part of this world, but then another time says to pray for: "thy Kingdom Come, thy will be done on Earth as it is in Heaven"

32 He will be great and will be called the Son of the Most High. The Lord God will give him the throne of his father David, 33 and he will reign over Jacob’s descendants forever; his kingdom will never end.” --Luke 1:32-33 NIV

“Let your kingdom come.” Did you realize that this kingdom is a real government? Yes, it is a princely rule in the hands of the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus. And the prophecy of Isaiah promises: “To the abundance of the princely rule and to peace there will be no end.” (Isa. 9:6, 7) Christ Jesus in his exalted heavenly position will act in the name of his Father, by uprooting all wickedness from the earth and ushering in perfect peace.—Ps. 72:1-7.

Christians pray for God’s kingdom to come to the earth as it already is in heaven, as Daniel prophesied it will: “And in the days of those kings the God of heaven will set up a kingdom . . . It will crush and put an end to all these kingdoms, and it itself will stand to times indefinite.” (Dan. 2:44) Although God’s kingdom has already been established in heaven, it has yet to “come” against Satan’s world to wipe out all wickedness, in answer to the prayer of Christians today. By means of that kingdom the following request is also fulfilled.

“Let your will take place, as in heaven, also upon earth.” By this petition one asks that God, by means of his kingdom, accomplish here on earth, as well as in heaven, what He wants done. With the removal of Satan the Devil and his angels from heaven God’s will is now being accomplished there. But what about the earth?—Rev. 12:7-12.

Certainly it is not God’s will that men fight and kill one another in bloody wars. Neither is it his will that they suffer and eventually die from painful, crippling diseases. The fulfillment of the petition for God’s will to be done on earth will therefore mean that eventually all earth’s inhabitants “will have to beat their swords into plowshares” and never “learn war any more.” And God “will wipe out every tear from their eyes, and death will be no more, neither will mourning nor outcry nor pain be any more.” Of what a glorious hope Christians are reminded by this prayer!—Isa. 2:4; Rev. 21:4.
 
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walter said:
Thank You for your kind friendly words, I appreciate your words. :) 💖
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As I do yours Walter. No worries about our conversations, I do know that we will agree to disagree on many biblical passages, but can remain friends, as my existing JW friends are an example of. The JW have many good attributes and the organisation is well administered, the support for remote JW's pioneers is commendable.

Stay well, stay happy, may God be with you always. Regards Tony
 
Tony Bristow-Stagg said:
As I do yours Walter. No worries about our conversations, I do know that we will agree to disagree on many biblical passages, but can remain friends, as my existing JW friends are an example of. The JW have many good attributes and the organisation is well administered, the support for remote JW's pioneers is commendable.

Stay well, stay happy, may God be with you always. Regards Tony
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I will try my very best to be a good friend. 💖
 
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Tony Bristow-Stagg said:
As I do yours Walter. No worries about our conversations, I do know that we will agree to disagree on many biblical passages, but can remain friends, as my existing JW friends are an example of. The JW have many good attributes and the organisation is well administered, the support for remote JW's pioneers is commendable.

Stay well, stay happy, may God be with you always. Regards Tony
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Does your faith believe that people will be resurrected to a life on earth? And live forever in a new world on earth?
 
walter said:
Does your faith believe that people will be resurrected to a life on earth? And live forever in a new world on earth?
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Why does that matter?
Isn't it enough to believe in a life hereafter, however and wherever G-d pleases?
 
muhammad_isa said:
Why does that matter?
Isn't it enough to believe in a life hereafter, however and wherever G-d pleases?
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Oh it doesn't matter. I just have a friend that believes in the Muslim holy Scriptures, and I have discovered we have a lot of things in common. 💖
 
walter said:
Several people have been resurrected in the Bible, each experience is proof of what actually happens, look up each resurrection and read the surrounding scriptures to determine what the difference is, if there is any.

I am a Jehovah's Witness I look for the scriptures in the in the Bible they bring me hope, joy, happiness, peace of mind and comfort, the Bible is my rock, I myself do not worry or think about details that will rob me of this joy I find in the Holy Scriptures. :) 💕 💖

Joy and Happiness will come if you keep looking for it. 144,000 is explained in the Bible. Don't let a single thing hold you back from all the wonderful thoughts you can imagine that are based on the promises God gives us in the Bible.
Click to expand...
Perhaps you did not understand my question and methodology Walter.
I don't want you to preach to me on what you believe or not, that's besides the point. I believe Jesus is God the Word of YHWH.
Our beliefs and dogma is something we can discuss later-on if needed.

My question to the JW's are:
The JW's don't believe that man has an immortal spirit, nor can flesh and blood enter heaven, yet you believe there will be 144 000 people in heaven next to God.

My question is very simple.
What of these people will go to heaven?

I am of the opinion that the Bible and Tract society are not telling the truth about the Spiritual realm as the Bible clearly describes, and this question is the ultimate litmus test to the validity of the Bible and Tract society's doctrines, which denies the divinity of Jesus.

Just as YHWH has an existence of light, which we can call His body, and He has the Holy Spirit within Himself, which we saw in the very first verses of the Bible when His Spirit left His existence and entered into creation, and He has a Mind, which we call the Word of God which entered into a man's body to live among us; The very same we have the Human in a mortal body, a Spirit within our existence and a Mind which is our word.

Now, before we even want to deny the Trinity, and the Divinity of Jesus, the Holy Ghost, and the Father in which these 3 dwell, we will have to first be able to deny that Man was not created in the image of God which as I have shown, we are also a trinity, but one person.

Now, this is where the Bible and Tract society fails horrendously.
They deny the existence of the Human spirit.

Therefore, If I learn from the Bible, and from the words of Jesus that man has a spirit, then I can safely conclude that the Bible Tract society are teaching a message contrary to the Bible.

Therefore, up until the JW's can tell me what of man will enter heaven, I have the right to bluntly say that they are attempting to feed me a falsehood.
I am sorry to speak these words, but it is up to the JW's who made this story up to prove me wrong.
Greetings.
Oh, by not being able to answer me, you are just one more name on a very long list that cant answer the deception of their organisation.
 
OupaPiet said:
Perhaps you did not understand my question and methodology Walter.
I don't want you to preach to me on what you believe or not, that's besides the point. I believe Jesus is God the Word of YHWH.
Our beliefs and dogma is something we can discuss later-on if needed.

My question to the JW's are:
The JW's don't believe that man has an immortal spirit, nor can flesh and blood enter heaven, yet you believe there will be 144 000 people in heaven next to God.

My question is very simple.
What of these people will go to heaven?

I am of the opinion that the Bible and Tract society are not telling the truth about the Spiritual realm as the Bible clearly describes, and this question is the ultimate litmus test to the validity of the Bible and Tract society's doctrines, which denies the divinity of Jesus.

Just as YHWH has an existence of light, which we can call His body, and He has the Holy Spirit within Himself, which we saw in the very first verses of the Bible when His Spirit left His existence and entered into creation, and He has a Mind, which we call the Word of God which entered into a man's body to live among us; The very same we have the Human in a mortal body, a Spirit within our existence and a Mind which is our word.

Now, before we even want to deny the Trinity, and the Divinity of Jesus, the Holy Ghost, and the Father in which these 3 dwell, we will have to first be able to deny that Man was not created in the image of God which as I have shown, we are also a trinity, but one person.

Now, this is where the Bible and Tract society fails horrendously.
They deny the existence of the Human spirit.

Therefore, If I learn from the Bible, and from the words of Jesus that man has a spirit, then I can safely conclude that the Bible Tract society are teaching a message contrary to the Bible.

Therefore, up until the JW's can tell me what of man will enter heaven, I have the right to bluntly say that they are attempting to feed me a falsehood.
I am sorry to speak these words, but it is up to the JW's who made this story up to prove me wrong.
Greetings.
Oh, by not being able to answer me, you are just one more name on a very long list that cant answer the deception of their organisation.
Click to expand...
Is it okay if I try to answer, one point at a time the best I am able? 💖
 
OupaPiet said:
My question is very simple.
What of these people will go to heaven?
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Romans 6:9 For we know that since Christ was raised from the dead, he cannot die again; death no longer has mastery over him. NIV

14 Anointed ones who today finish their earthly course are instantly raised to life in the heavens. This is confirmed by Paul’s words recorded at
1 Corinthians 15:51, 52: “We will not all fall asleep in death, but we will all be changed, in a moment, in the blink of an eye, during the last trumpet.” These words of Paul are now undergoing fulfillment! Upon their resurrection, these brothers of Christ will have complete joy; they will “always be with the Lord.”—1 Thess. 4:17. See link below for scriptures which explain:

“How Are the Dead to Be Raised Up?” WHAT SORT OF BODY?

Animals and Humans all have but one spirit. Or breath.
Ecclesiastes 3:19 for there is an outcome for humans and an outcome for animals; they all have the same outcome. As the one dies, so the other dies; and they all have but one spirit.

The same word is translated breath or spirit.
Psalm 146:4 His breath goeth forth, he returneth to his earth; In that very day his thoughts perish. ASV

Psalm 146:4 When his spirit leaves him, he returns to the earth; In that very day his thoughts and plans perish. AMP
biblehub.com

Psalm 146:4 - Praise the LORD, O My Soul

When his spirit departs, he returns to the ground; on that very day his plans perish.
biblehub.com

Do You Have an Immortal Spirit?

I tried my best to make it as short as possible, this is not an easy subject, and I am not the best to write about it. Thanks for your patience. 💖
 
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