I converted to Jehovah's Witnesses
- Thread starter Caritas
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You said you did not believe in hell in your interp of scripture.
I asked what your interp of punishment was.
I still ask...if. not hell..what?
The Bible says the wages of sin is death, Wouldn't you say that is punishment enough? Why does punishment have to be, living forever in torment you can feel? The Bible explains that the wicked will be cut off, and another place destroyed.
At John 3:16 who gets everlasting life?
To be cut off or destroyed, death is a pretty bad punishment! And this judgment could be finally lasting forever. Where does the Bible describe you're going to feel torture and live forever, feeling the pain? Some people use the words from the illustration about, The Rich Man and Lazarus.
There was a rich man who was dressed in purple.. Does the Bible describe being a rich man dressed in purple, as someone deserving to be tortured for eternity? King David and Jacob were very rich as well as others, considered righteous in the Bible.
A beggar named Lazarus, covered with sores.. This parable describes just because you are a rich man and wearing purple you're being tortured and just because you're a poor beggar with sores you're not. Could this illustration be Figurative or symbolic in some way? How can anyone take any of these words literally?
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Not everyone dies..
Just a little while longer, and the wicked will be no more; You will look at where they were, And they will not be there. 11 But the meek will possess the earth, And they will find exquisite delight in the abundance of peace. --Psalms 37:10-11
The righteous will possess the earth, And they will live forever on it. --Psalms 37:29
So you guys are purgatory people? Billions are dead and waiting reanimated? Gonna spawn back sometime in the future after the rapture?
All that ...
King David wrote that what 3000 years ago? Ya think when he wrote 'a little while longer' he was thinking in his lifetime (like the disciples did?) Or do you think he expected to be chilling for 3 millenia?
Do you?
What Happens When You Die?
The Bible’s answer
The Bible says: “The living are conscious that they will die; but as for the dead, they are conscious of nothing at all.” (Ecclesiastes 9:5; Psalm 146:4) Therefore, when we die, we cease to exist. The dead can’t think, act, or feel anything.
“To dust you will return”
God explained what happens when we die when he spoke to the first man, Adam. Because Adam was disobedient, God said to him: “Dust you are and to dust you will return.” (Genesis 3:19) Before God created Adam “out of dust from the ground,” Adam did not exist. (Genesis 2:7) Likewise, when Adam died, he returned to dust and ceased to exist.
The same thing happens to those who die now. Speaking of both humans and animals, the Bible says: “They have all come to be from the dust, and they are all returning to the dust.”—Ecclesiastes 3:19, 20.
Death is not necessarily the end of everything
The Bible often compares death to sleep. (Psalm 13:3; John 11:11-14; Acts 7:60) A person who is fast asleep is unaware of what is happening around him. Likewise, the dead are not conscious of anything. Yet, the Bible teaches that God can awaken the dead as if from sleep and give them life again. (Job 14:13-15) For those whom God resurrects, death is not the end of everything. John 5:28-29, Revelation 20:12
His breath goeth forth, he returneth to his earth; in that very day his thoughts perish. --Psalm 146:4 21st Century King James Version
So our bodies return to the earth, and the life-giving breath returns to God. --Ecclesiastes 12:7 Contemporary English Version
The Bible’s answer
The Bible says: “The living are conscious that they will die; but as for the dead, they are conscious of nothing at all.” (Ecclesiastes 9:5; Psalm 146:4) Therefore, when we die, we cease to exist. The dead can’t think, act, or feel anything.
“To dust you will return”
God explained what happens when we die when he spoke to the first man, Adam. Because Adam was disobedient, God said to him: “Dust you are and to dust you will return.” (Genesis 3:19) Before God created Adam “out of dust from the ground,” Adam did not exist. (Genesis 2:7) Likewise, when Adam died, he returned to dust and ceased to exist.
The same thing happens to those who die now. Speaking of both humans and animals, the Bible says: “They have all come to be from the dust, and they are all returning to the dust.”—Ecclesiastes 3:19, 20.
Death is not necessarily the end of everything
The Bible often compares death to sleep. (Psalm 13:3; John 11:11-14; Acts 7:60) A person who is fast asleep is unaware of what is happening around him. Likewise, the dead are not conscious of anything. Yet, the Bible teaches that God can awaken the dead as if from sleep and give them life again. (Job 14:13-15) For those whom God resurrects, death is not the end of everything. John 5:28-29, Revelation 20:12
His breath goeth forth, he returneth to his earth; in that very day his thoughts perish. --Psalm 146:4 21st Century King James Version
So our bodies return to the earth, and the life-giving breath returns to God. --Ecclesiastes 12:7 Contemporary English Version
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We can find love, friendship and kindness in all religions. 
moralorel
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The last time I spoke to a JW about resurrection, he was forbidden by his family to speak to me again. They didn't like that he started asking questions. So I will tread lightly here by just asking do you believe in a resurrection? Just one... or more? Spiritual? Physical? Or both?
What Is the Resurrection?
The Bible’s answerIn the Bible, the word translated as “resurrection” comes from the Greek a·naʹsta·sis, which means “raising up” or “standing up again.” A person who is resurrected is raised up from death and restored to life as the person he was before.—1 Corinthians 15:12, 13.
Although the word “resurrection” is not in the Hebrew Scriptures, often called the Old Testament, the teaching appears there. Through the prophet Hosea, for example, God promised: “From the power of the Grave I will redeem them; from death I will recover them.”—Hosea 13:14; Job 14:13-15; Isaiah 26:19; Daniel 12:2, 13.
if you want more information on earthly resurrection or heavenly resurrection see the link below..
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Some things the Bible does not explain, but at the same time the Bible gives us many instructions that help us understand quite a lot!
OupaPiet
Well-Known Member
Hi Caritas.
My Question is one I asked since 1986 to my JW family.
I never received an answer.
It goes like this.
> The JW's believe that the human does not have an eternal spirit living within their body of flesh and blood.
>The JW's believe that no flesh and blood will ever enter in Heaven.
>The JW's believe there will be 144 000 JW's resurrected to God in Heaven.
Therefore the question is obvious:
What substance of these 144000 humans will live with God in Heaven?
PN, I had many answers such as
1. "God will re create these people from His Mind as He remembered you."
This answer is illogical, because what does it help anyone if God creates something else to receive everlasting life. If there is no spirit living in my body now that will end up in heaven, or at least one living cell or hair, that thing the JW god will create will not be me at all. If He uses nothing of myself, then it is not me.
2. "God will take your consciousness and will create you again." OK, This I accept. But note that all you did was to change my description of a 'Spirit' to that of a 'Consciousness'. so the Christians were right all along. God will take my Consciousness to heaven. We just called it our spirit.
3. This is the last answer I got. "God alone knows how He will be able to have these 144 000 people living in Heaven with Him. We should only trust upon him."
To me this answer is the easy way out for the simple reason. The JWO's were quick to dismiss the spirit of man early in the previous century, and they were just as quick to create the dogma about the 144000 JW's that will enter heaven; that they completely forgot that the 144000 are made of flesh and blood and if resurrected, will not be able to enter heaven! That sieve at the pearly gates is too fine to allow blood and flesh. The JW's 144000 will stay outside in the traffic trying to push the first guys through the obstacle.
In the meantime, the spirit of of Moses and Elijah, who was with Jesus on the mountain during the transfiguration, and the poor man Lazarus and all the spirits who are with Abraham, will have no problem to pass through into heaven in their spiritual bodies, which lived in their flesh and blood bodies which they had on earth.
Do you have another option on how a JW can enter into heaven?
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