be gone the standing empty cross

[Thomas]

maybe you could start with the first posting # 1 hopefully you will see where I said his legs were not broken.

My bad.

now I am wondering if you know why the Romans would break the legs ?

Yes, to ensure the victim was dead before removal. Breaking legs with an iron bar was one way, there were others apparently – stabbing, smashing the sternum, even lighting a fire at the foot of the cross to speed up Asphyxiation! Maybe that was deployed to keep warm at the same time.

In Judea, there was the religious issue and bodies were not to be left overnight – although the crucified, depending on the method, could last for days. Hence the request to get the bodies down, and the breaking of legs.

According to the writings of Seneca, it seems there were as many ways of crucifying someone as there were pople to be crucified, and then you have the question of whether it's three people, or 300 or 3,000 ...

As Josehus says in The Jewish War:
"So the soldiers, out of the wrath and hatred they bore the Jews, nailed those they caught, one after one way, and another after another, to the crosses, by way of jest, when their multitude was so great, that room was wanting for the crosses, and crosses wanting for the bodies." (Josephus, The Jewish War, 5.11.1)

which means the one hungup could not be up as high as many of the pictures suggest .

Quite. Artistic license. An inch off the ground would suffice. In fact, if you really want to torture the victim, hanging by the wrists with the toes just touching the ground – but not enough to support the weight – is even 'sweeter', if you're that way inclined.

 

[wil]

if you really want to torture the victim, hanging by the wrists with the toes just touching the ground – but not enough to support the weight – is even 'sweeter', if you're that way inclined.

More evidence the world is improving.

We don't crucify 10k a year anymore (well we do have new methods) but compared to the number in the world.today compared to Roman empire. We are getting better.

 

[locust]

Flavius Josephus (born AD 37/38, Jerusalem—died AD 100, he did not know Jesus. one may wonder did he know how things were done around the year 33 ?? he could of known things that happened in 73 40 years latter

 

[locust]

Quite. Artistic license. An inch off the ground would suffice. In fact, if you really want to torture the victim, hanging by the wrists with the toes just touching the ground – but not enough to support the weight – is even 'sweeter', if you're that way inclined.

yes a great deal of Artistic license. because it was not recorded in detail . movies , TV and religion have taken the most Artistic license. which is misleading and all many only know.

 

[locust]

My bad.


Yes, to ensure the victim was dead before removal. Breaking legs with an iron bar was one way, there were others apparently – stabbing, smashing the sternum, even lighting a fire at the foot of the cross to speed up Asphyxiation! Maybe that was deployed to keep warm at the same time.

i had wondered how does one brake the legs . if a block of wood is put between the shaft of the pole and a leg. then force the knee back to the pole the leg would then brake . could only be done if the knee was not to far up. by braking the leg the victim was no longer be able to lift them selves up to a breath of air

 

[Faithfulservant]

Flavius Josephus (born AD 37/38, Jerusalem—died AD 100, he did not know Jesus. one may wonder did he know how things were done around the year 33 ?? he could of known things that happened in 73 40 years latter

Maybe because the Romans were still crucifying people? Lol

The Romans perfected crucifion for 500 years until it was abolished by Constantine I in the 4th century AD. Crucifixion in Roman times was applied mostly to slaves, disgraced soldiers, Christians and foreigners--only very rarely to Roman citizens.

The history and pathology of crucifixion - PubMed

In antiquity crucifixion was considered one of the most brutal and shameful modes of death. Probably originating with the Assyrians and Babylonians, it was used systematically by the Persians in the 6th century BC. Alexander the Great brought it from there to the eastern Mediterranean countries...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

I'm sure he would know more than you.

 

[locust]

Maybe because the Romans were still crucifying people? Lol

The Romans perfected crucifion for 500 years until it was abolished by Constantine I in the 4th century AD. Crucifixion in Roman times was applied mostly to slaves, disgraced soldiers, Christians and foreigners--only very rarely to Roman citizens.

The history and pathology of crucifixion - PubMed

In antiquity crucifixion was considered one of the most brutal and shameful modes of death. Probably originating with the Assyrians and Babylonians, it was used systematically by the Persians in the 6th century BC. Alexander the Great brought it from there to the eastern Mediterranean countries...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

I'm sure he would know more than you.

did he say how the dead body was taken down ?

 

[Faithfulservant]

Does that really matter? Seriously.. for me the important thing is that three days later He rose from the dead.

 

[locust]

Does that really matter? Seriously.. for me the important thing is that three days later He rose from the dead.

if ya cant get him down you cant put him in a tomb . my self i did not understand how it was stood up till i was shown how they got him down. and i know stuff

 

[locust]

Maybe because the Romans were still crucifying people? Lol

The Romans perfected crucifion for 500 years until it was abolished by Constantine I in the 4th century AD. Crucifixion in Roman times was applied mostly to slaves, disgraced soldiers, Christians and foreigners--only very rarely to Roman citizens.

The history and pathology of crucifixion - PubMed

In antiquity crucifixion was considered one of the most brutal and shameful modes of death. Probably originating with the Assyrians and Babylonians, it was used systematically by the Persians in the 6th century BC. Alexander the Great brought it from there to the eastern Mediterranean countries...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

I'm sure he would know more than you.

in what year did this law go in to effect​

Deuteronomy 21:22-23​

​

New American Standard Bible​

22 “If a man has committed a sin worthy of death and he is put to death, and you hang him on a tree, 23 his corpse shall not hang all night on the tree, but you shall surely bury him on the same day (for he who is hanged is accursed of God), so that you do not defile your land which the Lord your God gives you as an inheritance.​

 

[Thomas]

if ya cant get him down you cant put him in a tomb.

But they did ...

my self i did not understand how it was stood up till i was shown how they got him down. and i know stuff

Good for you, but in the scheme of things, it's really not important.

As an aside –
"And when I was sent by Titus Caesar with Cerealins, and a thousand horsemen, to a certain village called Thecoa, in order to know whether it were a place fit for a camp, as I came back, I saw many captives crucified, and remembered three of them as my former acquaintance. I was very sorry at this in my mind, and went with tears in my eyes to Titus, and told him of them; so he immediately commanded them to be taken down, and to have the greatest care taken of them, in order to their recovery; yet two of them died under the physician's hands, while the third recovered." Josephus, (The Life of Flavius Josephus, 75).
So three are crucified, and having been 'put up', were then 'taken down', and given what medical assistance was available.

Thecoa is generally identified as modern-day Tekoa, about 11 miles from Jerusalem. So Josephus went there, saw the crucified, went back to Jerusalem to petition Titus – I think he would have been seen immediately upon his arrival – got a pardon, then went back to Thecoa, explained himself, and got whoever to take the victims down with as much care as possible.

3 trips of 11 miles, negotiations before, during and after, surely must take the best part of a day. Heaven alone knows how long the victims had been up there, or the degree of their injuries.

+++

Josephus was at the siege of Jerusalem and had a tough time of it, only imperial favour keeping him alive. The Jews knew he was there and wanted him, dead or alive, as a turncoat and traitor, while there were Romans who believed that each time they had a set-back, it was because he was betraying them to the Jews.

Josephus was backed by Vespasian, Titus' dad, and Titus used his own authority to protect him. Interesting times.

He seems to show a remarkably clear conscience about his choices.

 

[Thomas]

in what year did this law go in to effect​

Scholars date Deuteronomy around the 7th century BC?

 

[Faithfulservant]

Let me add to that. So when did crucifixion actually become a practice and by whom.

Persians: The Persians used crucifixion systematically in the 6th century BC. King Darius I of Persia crucified 3,000 political enemies in Babylon around 519 BC.

Alexander the Great: Brought the practice to the eastern Mediterranean countries in the 4th century BC.

Phoenicians: Introduced the practice to Rome in the 3rd century BC.

Romans: The Romans "perfected" crucifixion over the next 500 years.

 

[locust]

But they did ...


Good for you, but in the scheme of things, it's really not important.

As an aside –
"And when I was sent by Titus Caesar with Cerealins, and a thousand horsemen, to a certain village called Thecoa, in order to know whether it were a place fit for a camp, as I came back, I saw many captives crucified, and remembered three of them as my former acquaintance. I was very sorry at this in my mind, and went with tears in my eyes to Titus, and told him of them; so he immediately commanded them to be taken down, and to have the greatest care taken of them, in order to their recovery; yet two of them died under the physician's hands, while the third recovered." Josephus, (The Life of Flavius Josephus, 75).
So three are crucified, and having been 'put up', were then 'taken down', and given what medical assistance was available.

Thecoa is generally identified as modern-day Tekoa, about 11 miles from Jerusalem. So Josephus went there, saw the crucified, went back to Jerusalem to petition Titus – I think he would have been seen immediately upon his arrival – got a pardon, then went back to Thecoa, explained himself, and got whoever to take the victims down with as much care as possible.

3 trips of 11 miles, negotiations before, during and after, surely must take the best part of a day. Heaven alone knows how long the victims had been up there, or the degree of their injuries.

+++

Josephus was at the siege of Jerusalem and had a tough time of it, only imperial favour keeping him alive. The Jews knew he was there and wanted him, dead or alive, as a turncoat and traitor, while there were Romans who believed that each time they had a set-back, it was because he was betraying them to the Jews.

Josephus was backed by Vespasian, Titus' dad, and Titus used his own authority to protect him. Interesting times.

He seems to show a remarkably clear conscience about his choices.

you likely Invision a standing cross after the body is taken down ? it cant be reused if its still standing. if its cut like a tree is cut down it would get shorter each time its used . its far more likely that that it was lifted up out of the hole and laid down .

 

[locust]

Good for you, but in the scheme of things, it's really not important.

if its not important then why go on about what Josephus did not see what happen to Jesus ?

 

[Thomas]

you likely Invision a standing cross after the body is taken down?

Well no-one knows, so all we can do is surmise.

Seems the Romans had stakes, crosses, 'X'- or even 'Y'-shaped frames ...

 

[Thomas]

why go on about what Josephus did not see what happen to Jesus ?

No reason, really ... it just caught my attention.

 

[wil]

why go on about

i had wondered how does one brake the legs

I am still wondering what the end game is here.

I still think you are trying to make a point...am I wrong?

What is this infatuation with crucifixion?

 

[locust]

consider what happens when either a pole or a cross is first picked up, with a man attached to it .
when its lifted its going to try to spin/flip over . a cross ,the cross bar does take care of some of the problem but only till is raised as high as a man would be able to hold on to it. after that push sticks plus men pushing on the shaft . all the push sticks are doing is keeping it from spin/flip. if one fails it all gets lost . some have pictured ropes used to help pull it up . perhaps the artist realizes how difficult it would be to stand a cross and added men to the task. hardly perfection in action

there is an easier way

 

[locust]

I am still wondering what the end game is here.

I still think you are trying to make a point...am I wrong?

What is this infatuation with crucifixion?

would rome do it the hard way or the easy way ?