Drinking wine to early

badger said:
Life is not intended to be a misery!
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Life is certain a misery if needing intoxications to find joy, good householder.

But if the teacher of yours was a sensuality enjoying drunkard, than no much need to think that those bond to such would be able to strive for anything beyond sensual realms. The realms of steady desiring and seeking.
 
Dhammañāṇa Bhikkhu said:
So if not needing to gain pleasure, some beyond the common low, why then going after it.
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I don't need cake or a good film. I don't need comedy or visits to the countryside. But they do make life a lot more pleasurable.
So let's stop pussyfooting around. If you think life should be dull and boring, just say so.
 
Leveller said:
I don't need cake or a good film. I don't need comedy or visits to the countryside. But they do make life a lot more pleasurable.
So let's stop pussyfooting around. If you think life should be dull and boring, just say so.
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It's not about seeking misery, but to avoid seeking low pleasures which are actually reason of all miseries in the sensual world. And by it, by avoiding sensual pleasures and start to educate the belly, one works for own good and that of others.

Yet the topic is about even using intoxication which causing heedlessness, shamelessness, lack of concern. One attributed with such does neither for own good nor for the good of all others, does not remember whats right, wrong, and heads downwardly, here and hereafter.

"I don't need" speaks just out of ease in gain all kinds of sensual pleasures. Nobody would intentional doing harm to oneself if not "need", eg. craves for such out of ignorance.

It's certain neither dull nor boring if enjoying pleasures beyond sensuality, pleasures without faults, but even releasing joy, and lasting liberating, if based even on right understanding..
 
Leveller said:
I must admit to a liking for my low pleasures. In fact I consider taking part in forums such as this to be one of them. So, why are you here?
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A religious forum, spirtual forum suggest by definition of this name, that there are interests beyong sensual satisfaction, beyong flesh. Maybe more accurate to ask why somebody who doesn't have faith in lesser painful and destructive seeks such forums, good householder.
Actually it's nearly everywhere this days anywhere, likewise. If there are so called spiritual or religious gathering they just work for destroying their original topic and just pull what ever out to build and maintain houses in the world.

Good householder might maybe not believe that the opposite of having faith, the opposite of tending to search for an escape, are the three intoxication:

* intoxicated with health
* intoxicated with youth
* intoxicated with life.

For one not aware of the 5 heavenly messengers there are hardly ways for any virtuous tendency and faith (in doing good).

The Deva Messengers
 
Well the topic is about a misinterpretation of a text, so let me run it again:

A question to Christians.
To Christians, right.

Jesus Christ left us.
But He did not abandon us: "But I tell you the truth, it is for your own good that I should go away. For if I do not go away the advocate surely is not coming to you but if I go I shall send him to you" (John 16:7).

He said he will drink no wine until the right time.
He said: "Amen, I tell you, henceforth I will most surely not drink of the yield of the vine until that day when I drink it with you, new, in the Kingdom of God.” (Mark 14:25).
It was an arrangement between Himself and his disciples.

I understand that. But I could not wait so long.
OK. He didn't say we should not drink, nor indeed that they should not drink.

Is that wrong? Am I a sinner?
In that context, No.

I think sometimes there is something to celebrate. Sometimes after realizing for example how well things actually going.
I must have this of from my chest or it remain a burden.
He didn't say no-one is allowed to be happy.

As ever, all things in moderation.

+++
 
Regarding moderation – we have to draw a distinction between a drink, and intoxication – a drug can be medicinal, or it can be used for personal intoxication. Context is everything.

Dhammañāṇa Bhikkhu said:
A religious forum, spiritual forum suggest by definition of this name, that there are interests beyond sensual satisfaction, beyond flesh.
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One would think so, but such is not the case here.

'Spiritual' as a term in the west has been gradually devolved away from a 'religious' orientation beyond the worldly/physical horizon, if you follow, to include a sense of general well-being and contentment within it ... very much 'of the flesh', rather than beyond it.

Dhammañāṇa Bhikkhu said:
Maybe more accurate to ask why somebody who doesn't have faith in lesser painful and destructive seeks such forums, good householder.
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I think you mistake this forum, in that sense – its remit is not as exact or exacting as, say, your own.

Dhammañāṇa Bhikkhu said:
Actually it's nearly everywhere this days anywhere, likewise. If there are so called spiritual or religious gathering they just work for destroying their original topic and just pull what ever out to build and maintain houses in the world.
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You have a manner of speaking quite bluntly, which might well put people off, or at least push them away ... but in essence I agree.

Dhammañāṇa Bhikkhu said:
Good householder might maybe not believe that the opposite of having faith, the opposite of tending to search for an escape, are the three intoxication:
* intoxicated with health
* intoxicated with youth
* intoxicated with life.
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As 'intoxication' was the issue, I was intending to post something on the 'Seven Deadly Sins' in the Western Tradition – wrong or disordered desires.
 
Thomas said:
Regarding moderation – we have to draw a distinction between a drink, and intoxication – a drug can be medicinal, or it can be used for personal intoxication. Context is everything.


One would think so, but such is not the case here.

'Spiritual' as a term in the west has been gradually devolved away from a 'religious' orientation beyond the worldly/physical horizon, if you follow, to include a sense of general well-being and contentment within it ... very much 'of the flesh', rather than beyond it.


I think you mistake this forum, in that sense – its remit is not as exact or exacting as, say, your own.


You have a manner of speaking quite bluntly, which might well put people off, or at least push them away ... but in essence I agree.


As 'intoxication' was the issue, I was intending to post something on the 'Seven Deadly Sins' in the Western Tradition – wrong or disordered desires.
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All foods are a drug. Lets not lie but be honest.
 
Dhammañāṇa Bhikkhu said:
Life is certain a misery if needing intoxications to find joy, good householder.
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Oh please!
My wife bought a bottle of Jack Daniels for Xmas 2022....it's still on the shelf!
However, Jesus and all Galilean peasant classes needed to drink wine if they wanted to drink safely, just as my forefathers drank beer. The Baptist heard stories about Jesus, who he ate/drank with and how he could enjoy his wine (sometimes a bit too much), and good luck to him.
This shown also by the account of the wedding feast at Cana.
Dhammañāṇa Bhikkhu said:
But if the teacher of yours was a sensuality enjoying drunkard, than no much need to think that those bond to such would be able to strive for anything beyond sensual realms. The realms of steady desiring and seeking.
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If Jesus enjoyed the odd binge, then good luck to him. That wouldn't make him a 'drunk' you know.
 
spiritualbee said:
A question to Christians. Jesus Christ left us. He said he will drink no wine until the right time. I understand that. But I could not wait so long.
Is that wrong? Am I a sinner? I think sometimes there is something to celebrate. Sometimes after realizing for example how well things actually going.
I must have this of from my chest or it remain a burden.
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You asked for an answer from Cristians. I give you an informed Muslim anwer, if you don'n mind.
Wine played a role in Jewish ceremonies; e.g. on Seder, you take four sips of wine. You will probably not get drunk of it, and not become an alcoholic if you do that once a year. Indeed, alcohol does not create an imediate dependency like heroine. But it is harmful.

Hnece, we find in the Quran:

4:43 O you who believe! Do not approach the prayer while you are drunk, so that you know what you say ...

2:219 They ask you about intoxicants and gambling. Say, “There is gross sin in them, and some benefits for people, but their sinfulness outweighs their benefit.” And they ask you about what they should give: say, “The surplus.” Thus God explains the revelations to you, so that you may think.

5:90-91 O you who believe! Intoxicants, gambling, idolatry, and divination are abominations of Satan's doing. Avoid them, so that you may prosper. Satan wants to provoke strife and hatred among you through intoxicants and gambling, and to prevent you from the remembrance of God, and from prayer. Will you not desist?

seems like a father admonishing his son:
4:43 "I don't want to see you coming home in my house, and you are drunk."
2:219 "I know you have pleasure with it. But it's really harmful. It's not worth it. Refrain from drinking, please."
5:90-91 "That stuff is devilish. It will destroy you. I forbid you to drink. For your own sake, stop it!"

May you think about what concerns you.
 
spiritualbee said:
A question to Christians. Jesus Christ left us. He said he will drink no wine until the right time. I understand that. But I could not wait so long.
Is that wrong? Am I a sinner? I think sometimes there is something to celebrate. Sometimes after realizing for example how well things actually going.
I must have this of from my chest or it remain a burden.
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I’m confused.

You posed a question. Thankfully, @Thomas was here to provide a clear and concise answer, noting without criticism that you had apparently misunderstood what Jesus had been saying. Your response seemed to indicate that you thought that Thomas had not correctly understood what you were asking.

Unless your question was incorrectly presented, in which case please rephrase and represent it, what did you find fault with in Thonas’ reaponse?
 
badger said:
Oh please!
My wife bought a bottle of Jack Daniels for Xmas 2022....it's still on the shelf!
However, Jesus and all Galilean peasant classes needed to drink wine if they wanted to drink safely, just as my forefathers drank beer. The Baptist heard stories about Jesus, who he ate/drank with and how he could enjoy his wine (sometimes a bit too much), and good luck to him.
This shown also by the account of the wedding feast at Cana.

If Jesus enjoyed the odd binge, then good luck to him. That wouldn't make him a 'drunk' you know.
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Didn't his enemies accuse him of being "a glutton and a drunkard" ?
 
TheLightWithin said:
Didn't his enemies accuse him of being "a glutton and a drunkard" ?
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When your enemies criticise you, this doesn't automatically mean that they are lying, you know.
The Baptist heard about those rumours 100 miles away. He was worried by that, but there was no need for him to be, imo.
He DID like to take his wine and food with people that had poor reputations and this enemies mentioned that as well...are you saying that this a lie as well?

If you want to investigate those rumours further you can read what his followers said, and they said that he and his friends could drink a wedding reception dry, and even Jesus's mother called out for more. The Jewish peasant classes enjoyed their wine .....for sure, and I don't think that's a bad thing.
 
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