Revelation, are you ready?

truthseeker said:
But you know, right now we sound like the people that ridiculed Abraham when he was building the ark. :rolleyes:

So is the Watchtower and Bible Tract Society an organization of bible scholars? I'm asking because, well, since The New World Translation is different from mine I'm interested in knowing where the information comes from. Everytime new information comes up, is the Bible updated?
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When would "the appointed times of the nations" end and God’s Kingdom rule begin? The answer, which was "sealed up until the time of the end," involves Bible chronology. (Daniel 12:9)

And he went on to say: "Go, Daniel, because the words are made secret and sealed up until the time of [the] end. Many will cleanse themselves and whiten themselves and will be refined. And the wicked ones will certainly act wickedly, and no wicked ones at all will understand; but the ones having insight will understand.
"Who really is the faithful and discreet slave whom his master appointed over his domestics, to give them their food at the proper time? Happy is that slave if his master on arriving finds him doing so. Truly I say to YOU, He will appoint him over all his belongings.(matt 24;45-47)


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I've just re-read Rev chapters 2 and 3, the letters to the churches. The churches still seem to be thinking of themselves as Jews, albeit Jews who follow Christ.

8"To the angel of the church in Smyrna write:
These are the words of him who is the First and the Last, who died and came to life again. 9I know your afflictions and your poverty-yet you are rich! I know the slander of those who say they are Jews and are not, but are a synagogue of Satan. 10Do not be afraid of what you are about to suffer. I tell you, the devil will put some of you in prison to test you, and you will suffer persecution for ten days. Be faithful, even to the point of death, and I will give you the crown of life.
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8I know your deeds. See, I have placed before you an open door that no one can shut. I know that you have little strength, yet you have kept my word and have not denied my name. 9I will make those who are of the synagogue of Satan, who claim to be Jews though they are not, but are liars–I will make them come and fall down at your feet and acknowledge that I have loved you. 10Since you have kept my command to endure patiently, I will also keep you from the hour of trial that is going to come upon the whole world to test those who live on the earth.
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Is this because the followers have not yet started to think of themselves as Christians, or perhaps I'm missing the boat altogether :p . Any insights from anyone here?

lunamoth
 
The christians in smyrna had put up with much opposition at the hands of flesly Jews . In earlier days, many of this religion determinedly opposed the spread of christianity. Then just a few decades after the fall of Jerusalem, those in smyrna are showing the same satanic spirit. so jesus is comforting them to remain faithful and not to compromise.its the same today true christians are fully put to the test . their faithfulness under trial marks them as Gods own people .The persecution that they recieve at the instigation of so called religious leaders(in christendom) has put them to the test to remain faithful.i think this is quite clear to see . these religious leaders are opposing true worship of Gods kingdom in the heavens ,which was when jesus was made king of Gods kingdom. remeber that the revelation is for our day not just for the early christians.
 
Faithfulservant said:
hehehe that was just famous ... Truth you watching the game too? :p
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Will I ever be able to live this down? :) :D :eek: :cool:
 
Forgive me all, for backtracking and being a bit slow.

Okay, Mee.

So I read Daniel 12. Until the time of the end the words will be sealed up and made secret. How long? A time, times, and half a time. That involves bible chronology.
'...and when he shall have accomplished to scatter the power of the holy people, all these things shall be finished.' (Daniel 12:7) Does this talk about the fall of Nehemiah? Is that what you are talking about in post #43?

Does this correlate with the seals talked about from Revelation 6 on?
 
All three parallel prophecies—Daniel 7:25, 12:7, and Revelation 11:3—found fulfillment in the 3 1/2 years, or 42 months, from December 1914 to June 1918.
regarding rev 6;1-17, since 1914 ,the lamb(jesus christ) progressively reveals a composite vision of events due to happen in the lords day,the lords day has been here since 1914. the four horseman ride forth.
 
mee said:
All three parallel prophecies—Daniel 7:25, 12:7, and Revelation 11:3—found fulfillment in the 3 1/2 years, or 42 months, from December 1914 to June 1918.
regarding rev 6;1-17, since 1914 ,the lamb(jesus christ) progressively reveals a composite vision of events due to happen in the lords day,the lords day has been here since 1914. the four horseman ride forth.
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Dear Mee, and everyone else :) ,

I'm trying to follow what you (Mee) are saying but I must admit the cutting and pasting of passages is making it more confusing--they don't always seem to directly answer the questions and always seem to bring in more questions :) . Perhaps you could explain a bit more in your own words and quote in the related scripture, rather than JW interpretations, to help us out.

Anyway, Mee suggests that the 42 months of trampling the holy city (Rev 11:2-3) took place between Oct 1914 and 1919, and that the 2 witnesses were leaders of the JWs who were persecuted? That makes me curious about what the bodies laying in the street for 3 1/2 days was, and then the coming back to life, and then gathered to heaven in a cloud., and then the earthquake that claimed 7000 people and the surviors who then glave glory. Have all of these things been literally fulfilled according to JW interpretation? So that would take it to about Oct 1921 for the sounding of the Seventh Turmpet, the start of Judgement. If so, why don't we notice it?

Just trying to understand :confused: ,
lunamoth
 
the preaching work came to a stop when the brothers were in prison, but they were revived again when they were released, it was as though they were dead ,Jehovah restored his deceased witnesses to life again, the two witnesses were suddenly alive and active again in the preaching work it was the religious enimies who had the two witnesses put out of action, they maneuvered the states legal system so as to imprison the brothers ,but not for long (rev 11;7-10
 
mee said:
All three parallel prophecies—Daniel 7:25, 12:7, and Revelation 11:3—found fulfillment in the 3 1/2 years, or 42 months, from December 1914 to June 1918.
regarding rev 6;1-17, since 1914 ,the lamb(jesus christ) progressively reveals a composite vision of events due to happen in the lords day,the lords day has been here since 1914. the four horseman ride forth.
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That would negate the caution that Jesus gave the faithful to be ready. He stated no one knew the day, hour or minute of the return of the Lord, but the Father. He stated, "Behold I come like a thief in the night". (para) That would also imply that the Holy Spirit has already departed from the Earth. It also means by your reconning that tribulations has past and we are now in the 1000 years of peace on Earth...

v/r

Q
 
Mee,

Understanding your answers took me into some intense Bible study and I'm out of breath from chasing scriptures. Once I got my pen and paper and tied in the scriptures with one another, I found that I could or couldn't relate to the information - depending on whether I was seeing the information in a spiritual manner or a literal manner. From the perspective that the cut and pastes are coming from, I found that a stand on either a spiritual perspective or a literal perspective was elusive. However, in a very confusing way, the information made sense.

You must be exhausted, Mee. It is certainly easier to sit back and read from the Watchtower and Awake! and red, green, and blue books and trust that the elders are rightly dividing the information straight from Bethel. Of course, no true believer wants to be left out of the Rapture. But I have found one of your comments to be particularly revealing of the way your organization truly thinks about Christianity outside of 'Jehovah's Kingdom'.
mee said:
...In May 1918 Christendom's clergy instigated the imprisonment of officials of the Watch Tower Society, but nine months later these were released. ...From 1919 the organization of God's people, tried and refined, moved zealously forward to proclaim Jehovah's Kingdom by Christ Jesus as the hope for mankind. -Malachai 3:1-3
As Jesus began his inspection in 1918, the clergy of Christendom no doubt received an adverse judgement. Not only had they raised up persecution against God's people but they had also incurred heavy bloodguilt by supporting the contending nations during the first world war. (Revelation 18:21,24) Those clergymen then placed their hope in the man-made League of Nations. Along with the entire world empire of false religion, Christendom had fallen completely from God's favor by 1919
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Maybe you should be a bit more selective about your cut and pastes in your zeal to proclaim Jehovah's Kingdom. Though I can appreciate your focus on the Revelation, I don't appreciate your evangelism of a sect that is not tolerant. The last sentence of the quote stated above tells me that you believe that your organization are the only ones in God's favor.
 
we must remember that the bible itself says for people to get out of the world empire of false religion this is refered to as (babylon the great) in rev 18;4 this includes all religion that has its roots in babylonish teaching i for one can quite plainly see that this includes christendom with its teachingsof hellfire, imortality of the soul ect ect.the prophecies of ancient babylons fall in the hebrew scriptures also include the command to his people to take their flight out of babylon (jeremiah 50;8, 13)so it is very importent that true christians are no part of false teaching
 
Quahom1 said:
That would negate the caution that Jesus gave the faithful to be ready. He stated no one knew the day, hour or minute of the return of the Lord, but the Father. He stated, "Behold I come like a thief in the night". (para) That would also imply that the Holy Spirit has already departed from the Earth. It also means by your reconning that tribulations has past and we are now in the 1000 years of peace on Earth...

v/r

Q
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The final judgement on this system of things including the rulers. goverments ,religion , is yet to come, no one knows the hour as jesus said .we are to keep awake to the signs jesus left in matthew 24 and 25 Jehovah God always warns his people before the destruction of the unrightous so that they can change their ways and be saved ,
For the Sovereign Lord Jehovah will not do a thing unless he has revealed his confidential matter to his servants the prophets(Amos 3;7)

that is why he warns his people to get out of false religion .( babylon the great )(rev 18;4)also ( rev 7;9 speaks of a great crowd who will be worshipping in the right way .babylon the great has no hold on true christians but its final destruction is yet to come


 
mee said:
The final judgement on this system of things including the rulers. goverments ,religion , is yet to come, no one knows the hour as jesus said .we are to keep awake to the signs jesus left in matthew 24 and 25 Jehovah God always warns his people before the destruction of the unrightous so that they can change their ways and be saved ,
For the Sovereign Lord Jehovah will not do a thing unless he has revealed his confidential matter to his servants the prophets(Amos 3;7)

that is why he warns his people to get out of false religion .( babylon the great )(rev 18;4)also ( rev 7;9 speaks of a great crowd who will be worshipping in the right way .babylon the great has no hold on true christians but its final destruction is yet to come
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No Mee. Jesus said He will come like a thief in the night. No warning. We are to be ready now, but we will have no warning as to His return until He is here. To imply otherwise is to ignore what Jesus said. As for warning...we already have been warned, about 2000 years ago, and everytime one reads the words of the Bible. The "signs" in Matthew are the beginning of birth pangs, but even then it is not yet time, as specifically stated by Jesus.

Jesus also said He hated religion. In fact the only religion Jesus cared for was the taking care of orphans and widows (which meant to religiously care for those unable to care for themselves...). So by your own statement, there is not one "religion" that is true today...not one.

If Christendom is corrupt, then all of Christianity is corrupt...Christendom afterall encompasses all Christians of every walk, even me, even you...unless you are implying you are not Christian, but something better...;)

v/r

Q
 
Quahom1 said:
No Mee. Jesus said He will come like a thief in the night. No warning. We are to be ready now, but we will have no warning as to His return until He is here. To imply otherwise is to ignore what Jesus said. As for warning...we already have been warned, about 2000 years ago, and everytime one reads the words of the Bible. The "signs" in Matthew are the beginning of birth pangs, but even then it is not yet time, as specifically stated by Jesus.

Jesus also said He hated religion. In fact the only religion Jesus cared for was the taking care of orphans and widows (which meant to religiously care for those unable to care for themselves...). So by your own statement, there is not one "religion" that is true today...not one.

If Christendom is corrupt, then all of Christianity is corrupt...Christendom afterall encompasses all Christians of every walk, even me, even you...unless you are implying you are not Christian, but something better...;)

v/r

Q
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true christianty is not corrupt because it has not taken on babylonish teaching that is why we are told to get out of it
 
mee said:
true christianty is not corrupt because it has not taken on babylonish teaching that is why we are told to get out of it
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;) We were told to be in this world but not of it a long time ago as well. Nothing new under the sun.

v/r

Q
 
Quahom1 said:
;) We were told to be in this world but not of it a long time ago as well. Nothing new under the sun.

v/r

Q
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thats correct,we were told to be no part of the world , but remember revelation is for our day and jesus said at rev 1;3 Happy is anyone observing the words of the prophecy of this scroll.so we have to get out of false religion then we will be happy because we are not part of babylon the great and will not go down with it(rev 18;21)
 
mee said:
thats correct,we were told to be no part of the world , but remember revelation is for our day and jesus said at rev 1;3 Happy is anyone observing the words of the prophecy of this scroll.so we have to get out of false religion then we will be happy because we are not part of babylon the great and will not go down with it(rev 18;21)
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(chuckle), We were told to be not of this world. There is a difference between that, and "be no part of" this world. Revelation is for every day since the moment it was penned to paper (papyrus, or scroll). We are told to be as wise a serpents, but as innocent as doves.

Blessed is anyone who reads the words of this book, and blessed are those who hear the words...for one shall receive one reward and the other shall receive another reward.

Christians aren't in a false religion, since Christianity is not a religion. Christianity is a way of life. It is a faithful way of living. Religion is the dogma, doctrines and human precepts placed upon us in following that faith or any other faith. That is where things get mucked and muddied. That is also where people cause others pain, sadness and confusion. Not very Christian like behavior I should think.

The biggest obstacle to Jesus or God or Yaweh in claiming His beloved mankind, is a condemning Christian...;)

v/r

Q
 
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