Revelation, are you ready?

I think its scary that people become indoctrinated into a religion that has so many failed prophecies..going into it naively and not knowing enough about the bible to know that it says about false prophets.

From a list of over 180 false prophecies starting at its birth in the 1870's I will pull a few out.


1879 "Christ came in the character of a Bridegroom in 1874.... at the beginning of the Gospel harvest." (Watchtower, Oct 1879, p. 4

1880 "We need not here repeat the evidences that the "seventh trump" began its sounding A.D., 1840, and will continue until the end of the time of trouble, and the end of "The times of the Gentiles," A.D., 1914, and that it is the trouble of this "Great day," which is here symbolically called the voice of the Archangel when he begins the deliverance of fleshly Israel. "At that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince (Archangel) which standeth for the children of thy people and there shall be a time of trouble such as never was since there was a nation." Dan. xii. 1. Nor will we here, again present the conclusive Bible proof that our Lord came for his Bride in 1874, and has an unseen work as Reaper of the first-fruits of this Gospel Age. (Zion's Watchtower November, 1880 p. 1)


1888 "In this chapter we present the Bible evidence proving that the full end of the times of the gentiles, i.e., the full end of their lease of dominion, will be reached in A.D. 1914; and that the date will be the farthest limit of the rule of imperfect men. And be it observed, that if this is shown to be a fact firmly established by the Scriptures, it will prove; Firstly, that at that date the Kingdom of God, for which our Lord taught us to pray, saying, Thy Kingdom come, will obtain full, universal control, and that it will then be set up, or firmly established, in the earth, on the ruins of present institutions." (The Time Is At Hand, 1888, p. 76, 77)

1889 "Be not surprised, then, when in subsequent chapters we present proofs that the setting up of the Kingdom of God is already begun, that it is pointed out in prophecy as due to begin the exercise of power in A.D. 1878, and that the 'battle of the great day of God Almighty (Rev. 16:14) which will end in A.D. 1914 with the complete overthrow of earth's present rulership, is already commenced. The gathering of the armies is plainly visible from the standpoint of God's word." (Studies in the Scriptures, Vol. 2, The Time Is At Hand, 1889 Ed., p. 101. The 1915 Edition of this texts changed "A.D. 1914" to read 'A.D. 1915')

1889 "In the coming 26 years, all present governments will be overthrown and dissolved." (C.T. Russell, Studies in the Scriptures, Vol. 2, p. 98-99, 1889)

1894 "We see no reason for changing the figures nor could we change them if we would. They are, we believe, Gods dates, not ours. But bear in mind that the end of 1914 is not the date for the beginning, but for the end of the time of trouble." (Watchtower, July 15, 1894, Reprints p. 1677)

1897 "Complete destruction of the 'powers that be' of 'this present evil worlds - political, financial, ecclesiastical - about the close of the Time of the Gentiles; October A.D. 1914." (C.T. Russell, Studies in the Scriptures, IV, p. 622, 1897)

1903 "When Uranus and Jupiter meet in the humane sign of Aquarius in 1914, the long-promised era will have made a fair start in the work of setting man free to work out his own salvation, and will insure the ultimate realization of dreams and ideals of all poets and sages in history." (Watchtower, May 1, 1903, p. 130-131; p3184 Reprints) * I thought this one was interesting

1914 "While it's possible that Armageddon may begin next Spring, yet this purely speculation to attempt to say just when. We see, however, that there are parallels between the close of the Jewish age and this Gospel age. These parallels seem to point to the year just before us part particularly the early months." (Watchtower Reprints, VI, Sept 1, 1914, p. 5527)

1915 "The present great war in Europe is the beginning of the Armageddon of the Scriptures Rev 19:16-20). It will eventuate in the complete overthrow of all the systems of error which have so long oppressed the people of God and deluded the world. We believe the present war cannot last much longer until revolutions shall break out" (C.T. Russell, Pastor Russell's Sermons, p. 676, Sometime during World War I)

1917 'There will be no slip-up...Abraham should enter upon the actual possession of his promised inheritance in the year 1925' (Watchtower Oct. 15, 1917, p. 6157)

1917 "And the mountains were not found. Even the republics will disappear in the fall of 1920. And the mountains were not found. Every kingdom of earth will pass away, be swallowed up in anarchy." (The Finished Mystery, 1917 edition, p. 258

1918 "Therefore we may confidently expect that 1925 will mark the return of Abraham, Isaac, Jacob and the faithful prophets of old, particularly those named by the Apostle in Hebrews 11, to the condition of human perfection." (Millions Now Living Will Never Die, p. 89)

1922 "The period must end in 1925. The type ending, the antitype must begin; and therefore 1925 is definitely fixed in the scriptures. every thinking person can see that a great climax is at hand. The Scriptures clearly indicate that the climax is the fall of Satan's empire and the full establishment of the Messianic kingdom. This climax being reached by 1925, and that marking the beginning of the fulfillment of the long promised blessings of life to the people, millions now living on earth will be living then and those who obey the righteous laws of the new arrangement will live forever. Therefore it can be confidently said at this time that millions now living will never die." (Golden Age, Jan. 4, 1922, p. 217)

1924 "The year 1925 is a date definitely and clearly marked in Scriptures, even more clearly than that of 1914. (Watchtower 1924, p. 211)
1938 "They had preached that in an early time God would overthrow "Christendom". Many had emphasized the year 1925 as the date, and then when that date did not materialize the date was moved up to 1932. Again, 1932 came and ''Christendom'' was not destroyed, and now it was discovered that "Christendom" would be spared for a while longer for the sake of the Jonadab class, and this made the proud "elective elder" crowd very mad." (Watchtower Feb. 15, 1938 p. 54)

1943 "Man cannot by airplane or rockets or other means get above the air envelope which is about our earthly globe..."(The Truth Shall Make you Free, p. 285, 1943 edition) *Oh really?

1971 "Shortly, within our twentieth century, the "battle in the day of Jehovah" will begin against the modern antitype of Jerusalem, Christendom." (The Nations Shall Know That I Am Jehovah; 1971; 2nd ed.; p. 216)

Well its obvious I couldnt post all them.. but they are there in writing for anyone to see.
 
Faithful, you are aware that Paul and the crew also thought the end was coming in their day right? In fact they had to tell people to get to work and make themselves useful because they gave up everything because the end was near. Also in about 1000ad people went out in droves to the hilltops waiting for Christ to come back. I have spoken with many christians that believe the end days are here now and that it will happen in their lifetime (within the next 30 -40 years).

Nobody knows. what kills me is that Jesus told everyone that it won't come with their careful observation. If someone says, "here it is" or "there it is, don't pay attention, the kingdom is within you." Or as mee likes to say, "in your midst."
 
didymus said:
Faithful, you are aware that Paul and the crew also thought the end was coming in their day right? In fact they had to tell people to get to work and make themselves useful because they gave up everything because the end was near. Also in about 1000ad people went out in droves to the hilltops waiting for Christ to come back. I have spoken with many christians that believe the end days are here now and that it will happen in their lifetime (within the next 30 -40 years).

Nobody knows. what kills me is that Jesus told everyone that it won't come with their careful observation. If someone says, "here it is" or "there it is, don't pay attention, the kingdom is within you." Or as mee likes to say, "in your midst."
Perhaps that is because Jesus wants us to stop looking for the end (which is from without), and start looking at the kingdom (which is from within)?

Almost a play on words if you think about it. "Stop looking for death, it will surely come in its time, start looking for life, because it is already here, now..."

v/r

Q
 
Quahom1 said:
Perhaps that is because Jesus wants us to stop looking for the end (which is from without), and start looking at the kingdom (which is from within)?

Almost a play on words if you think about it. "Stop looking for death, it will surely come in its time, start looking for life, because it is already here, now..."

v/r

Q

Nice, Q. :) I like this take on it.

lunamoth
 
Quahom1 said:
Almost a play on words if you think about it. "Stop looking for death, it will surely come in its time, start looking for life, because it is already here, now..."

v/r

Q
Nice. I like that one.
 
Mark 13:14-23 14 "So when you see the 'abomination of desolation,' spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing where it ought not" (let the reader understand), "then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains. 15 Let him who is on the housetop not go down into the house, nor enter to take anything out of his house. 16 And let him who is in the field not go back to get his clothes. 17 But woe to those who are pregnant and to those who are nursing babies in those days! 18 And pray that your flight may not be in winter. 19 For in those days there will be tribulation, such as has not been since the beginning of the creation which God created until this time, nor ever shall be. 20 And unless the Lord had shortened those days, no flesh would be saved; but for the elect's sake, whom He chose, He shortened the days. 21 Then if anyone says to you, 'Look, here is the Christ!' or, 'Look, He is there!' do not believe it. 22 For false christs and false prophets will rise and show signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect. 23 But take heed; see, I have told you all things beforehand


For some reason I feel a great need to correct people when they misquote scripture. This one is for you Didymus.

Sounds to me not just here but throughout the NT that we are to be watching for the signs and praying that he come quickly.
 
Quahom1 said:
(chuckle), We were told to be not of this world. There is a difference between that, and "be no part of" this world. Revelation is for every day since the moment it was penned to paper (papyrus, or scroll). We are told to be as wise a serpents, but as innocent as doves.

Blessed is anyone who reads the words of this book, and blessed are those who hear the words...for one shall receive one reward and the other shall receive another reward.

Christians aren't in a false religion, since Christianity is not a religion. Christianity is a way of life. It is a faithful way of living. Religion is the dogma, doctrines and human precepts placed upon us in following that faith or any other faith. That is where things get mucked and muddied. That is also where people cause others pain, sadness and confusion. Not very Christian like behavior I should think.

The biggest obstacle to Jesus or God or Yaweh in claiming His beloved mankind, is a condemning Christian...;)

v/r

Q
Did not jesus himself condemn the main religion of his day because of their traditions(mark 7; 7-8)
It is in vain that they keep worshiping me, because they teach as doctrines commands of men. Letting go the commandment of God, YOU hold fast the tradition of men.seems to me that christendom hold on to there tradtions of men as well . trinity doctrine , hellfire, imortality of the soul , pagan beliefs mixed in with bible beliefs there are many more if people bother to do their research . jesus did not mind expposing the main religion of his day because of there falseness its the same today he does not mind false teachers being shown up for what they are false . and people are led to believe that these manmade doctrines are from God when they are nothing of the sort

 
mee said:
Did not jesus himself condemn the main religion of his day because of their traditions(mark 7; 7-8)
It is in vain that they keep worshiping me, because they teach as doctrines commands of men. Letting go the commandment of God, YOU hold fast the tradition of men.seems to me that christendom hold on to there tradtions of men as well . trinity doctrine , hellfire, imortality of the soul , pagan beliefs mixed in with bible beliefs there are many more if people bother to do their research . jesus did not mind expposing the main religion of his day because of there falseness its the same today he does not mind false teachers being shown up for what they are false . and people are led to believe that these manmade doctrines are from God when they are nothing of the sort

Yes, I suppose it was all as false as the religions and teachings of today (mine and yours included with everyone elses). However, this is going beyond the original intent of this thread. I suggest we get back to the chapters of Revelation. ;)

v/r

Q
 
I have a related question that perhaps our resident Bible scholars can answer. In Isaiah 14:12 morning star refers to either Satan and/or to the king of Babylon
12 How you have fallen from heaven,
O morning star, son of the dawn!
You have been cast down to the earth,
you who once laid low the nations!

In Revelation morning star clearly refers to Christ coming in Glory (Rev 2:28 and 22:16).

16“I, Jesus, have sent my angel to give you[a] this testimony for the churches. I am the Root and the Offspring of David, and the bright Morning Star.”

17The Spirit and the bride say, “Come!” And let him who hears say, “Come!” Whoever is thirsty, let him come; and whoever wishes, let him take the free gift of the water of life. (Rev 22)

Does anyone have any insight into why the same name might be used? Maybe it's because Satan/humans inspired by satanic motivations try to usurp the Title? Or is it a translation issue?

hanging on by my tenterhooks,
lunamoth
 
Faithfulservant said:
1903 "When Uranus and Jupiter meet in the humane sign of Aquarius in 1914, the long-promised era will have made a fair start in the work of setting man free to work out his own salvation, and will insure the ultimate realization of dreams and ideals of all poets and sages in history." (Watchtower, May 1, 1903, p. 130-131; p3184 Reprints) * I thought this one was interesting
Sounds Babylonian to me.
1914 "While it's possible that Armageddon may begin next Spring, yet this purely speculation to attempt to say just when. We see, however, that there are parallels between the close of the Jewish age and this Gospel age. These parallels seem to point to the year just before us part particularly the early months." (Watchtower Reprints, VI, Sept 1, 1914, p. 5527)
So was it the 'time of the end' or Armaggedon?
1917 'There will be no slip-up...Abraham should enter upon the actual possession of his promised inheritance in the year 1925' (Watchtower Oct. 15, 1917, p. 6157)
Did this actually happen?
1917 "And the mountains were not found. Even the republics will disappear in the fall of 1920. And the mountains were not found. Every kingdom of earth will pass away, be swallowed up in anarchy." (The Finished Mystery, 1917 edition, p. 258
Quite Prolific...
1918 "Therefore we may confidently expect that 1925 will mark the return of Abraham, Isaac, Jacob and the faithful prophets of old, particularly those named by the Apostle in Hebrews 11, to the condition of human perfection." (Millions Now Living Will Never Die, p. 89)
Was this a spiritual return, or a literal return?
1922 "The period must end in 1925. The type ending, the antitype must begin; and therefore 1925 is definitely fixed in the scriptures. every thinking person can see that a great climax is at hand. The Scriptures clearly indicate that the climax is the fall of Satan's empire and the full establishment of the Messianic kingdom. This climax being reached by 1925, and that marking the beginning of the fulfillment of the long promised blessings of life to the people, millions now living on earth will be living then and those who obey the righteous laws of the new arrangement will live forever. Therefore it can be confidently said at this time that millions now living will never die." (Golden Age, Jan. 4, 1922, p. 217)
What does this mean, Mee?
1924 "The year 1925 is a date definitely and clearly marked in Scriptures, even more clearly than that of 1914. (Watchtower 1924, p. 211)
So then why are you still talking about 1914 when your organization has clearly stated 1925 as a 'definate'?
1938 "They had preached that in an early time God would overthrow "Christendom". Many had emphasized the year 1925 as the date, and then when that date did not materialize the date was moved up to 1932. Again, 1932 came and ''Christendom'' was not destroyed, and now it was discovered that "Christendom" would be spared for a while longer for the sake of the Jonadab class, and this made the proud "elective elder" crowd very mad." (Watchtower Feb. 15, 1938 p. 54)
Sounds like some personal issues with Christendom. Where you guys still upset because of the persecution back in 1918?


1971 "Shortly, within our twentieth century, the "battle in the day of Jehovah" will begin against the modern antitype of Jerusalem, Christendom." (The Nations Shall Know That I Am Jehovah; 1971; 2nd ed.; p. 216)
Is Jehovah particularly angry with Jerusalem and Christendom? Or are Jehovah's Witnesses particularly angry with Jerusalem and Christendom? If God is against all false religion, then why do JW always make Jerusalem and Christendom an issue in the doctrine? I'm not even coming at you wrong anymore, Mee. But these things quoted here sound like a personal attack with the intent of using the Bible to back it up.
 
Faithfulservant said:
Mark 13:14-23 14 "So when you see the 'abomination of desolation,' spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing where it ought not" (let the reader understand), "then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains. 15 Let him who is on the housetop not go down into the house, nor enter to take anything out of his house. 16 And let him who is in the field not go back to get his clothes. 17 But woe to those who are pregnant and to those who are nursing babies in those days! 18 And pray that your flight may not be in winter. 19 For in those days there will be tribulation, such as has not been since the beginning of the creation which God created until this time, nor ever shall be. 20 And unless the Lord had shortened those days, no flesh would be saved; but for the elect's sake, whom He chose, He shortened the days. 21 Then if anyone says to you, 'Look, here is the Christ!' or, 'Look, He is there!' do not believe it. 22 For false christs and false prophets will rise and show signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect. 23 But take heed; see, I have told you all things beforehand
.
Touche faithful, i can't dispute that verse. as i was reading i noticed that he spoke to those in luke regarding the coming kingdom, which he said won't come with careful observation. it is within you. in mark he is speaking of the end times and the great tribulation. it seems that he views the end times and the tribulation different from each other. at tmes they seem to be different but with slight variations and at other times they appear to be similar.
 
lunamoth said:
I have a related question that perhaps our resident Bible scholars can answer. In Isaiah 14:12 morning star refers to either Satan and/or to the king of Babylon


In Revelation morning star clearly refers to Christ coming in Glory (Rev 2:28 and 22:16).



Does anyone have any insight into why the same name might be used? Maybe it's because Satan/humans inspired by satanic motivations try to usurp the Title? Or is it a translation issue?

hanging on by my tenterhooks,
lunamoth
Im not sure which translation you are using but Isaiah 14:12 reads like this

How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!

thats from the NJV and the NKJV isnt much different.
 
for me i find it very upbuilding to see how Jehovahs people have kept on the watch over the years .they were certainly right about christendom . because since 1919 christendom have had no hold on jehovahs people . we have cast off all of the false religious beliefs since then ,and are moving ahead in the preaching work that jesus said true christians would be doing in this time of the end.

And this good news of the kingdom will be preached in all the inhabited earth for a witness to all the nations; and then the end will come(matt 24;14)and revelation14;6-7

And I saw another angel flying in midheaven, and he had everlasting good news to declare as glad tidings to those who dwell on the earth, and to every nation and tribe and tongue and people, saying in a loud voice: "FEAR God and give him glory, because the hour of the judgment by him has arrived, and so worship the One who made the heaven and the earth and sea and fountains of waters.

 
mee said:
"FEAR God and give him glory, because the hour of the judgment by him has arrived, and so worship the One who made the heaven and the earth and sea and fountains of waters.

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This is the sum of the good news of God? :(

lunamoth
 
Its always interesting to me the people that claim to be true christians... yet reject that most elemental part of Him.

My sympathy goes for people that believe the word of men over the word of God. and are so easily misled.. like sheep to the slaughter. If these same people would spend as much time in the word as they do reading other materials that are supposed to be the only way to understand the bible then I dont believe it would such a problem.. I feel that they are completely missing out on the gift given us with the Holy Spirit who is the only one that can interpret for us.

I would like to remind you Mee that this is a Christian forum and we are all part of Christendom here and your evasive answering and complete avoidance of sincere abject evidence while promoting your faith with cut and pasting is becoming tiresome to say the least. If you have any of your own thoughts I would be interested in seeing them rather than the thoughts of some men in NY who tell you what to say while you try to witness to us. We have all had our experiences with JW door to door witnessing so theres no need to use that tactic on this forum.
 
Faithfulservant said:
Im not sure which translation you are using but Isaiah 14:12 reads like this

How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!

thats from the NJV and the NKJV isnt much different.
NIV and NAS have "morning star" and "star of the morning" respectively.
 
Faithfulservant said:
Its always interesting to me the people that claim to be true christians... yet reject that most elemental part of Him.
It's always interesting to me that anyone genuinely thinks they are the arbiters of what "true Christians" are or what the most elemental parts of Christianity are.
 
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